caulfield12 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-...ver-6177739.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 PDS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 So...officers should be fired for something they said (texted) in private and what appears to be mostly while not on the job. So should people who tweet/text death threats to pizza owners also be fired from their jobs? If we are policing thought and speech, I would think the death threats are just as bad as racial comments. Or is headhunting only OK for certain groups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Apr 4, 2015 -> 05:52 PM) So...officers should be fired for something they said (texted) in private and what appears to be mostly while not on the job. So should people who tweet/text death threats to pizza owners also be fired from their jobs? If we are policing thought and speech, I would think the death threats are just as bad as racial comments. Or is headhunting only OK for certain groups? well i am glad someone posted this. about SFO.... i don't know, but isn't there a freedom of speech and thoughts. come on, this is like a government control area, where no one can have any rights to express themselves. this was not done during work, this was not done in when in performance of their job. it was while there were tweeting. the subject matter, yeah it was stupid and asinine and very racially motivated. but does that in of itself show cause for removal of their jobs?? sidetrack, i would really like to know what there past performance ratings were like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Apr 4, 2015 -> 12:52 PM) So...officers should be fired for something they said (texted) in private and what appears to be mostly while not on the job. So should people who tweet/text death threats to pizza owners also be fired from their jobs? If we are policing thought and speech, I would think the death threats are just as bad as racial comments. Or is headhunting only OK for certain groups? You make great points there. One question, and on a tangent, if you had an employee whose tweets were costing you money, would you say fire the employee or lose business from customers that don't have the same enlightened attitude you have? On this case, if you were on a jury and learned that the officer that arrested someone had just sent a message that showed hatred for that race, would it affect your opinion of the officer's testimony? If an hour earlier he sent a message about idiot white guys who think they own the world, then arrested a rich white guy, would you have an issue? I think I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 7, 2015 -> 10:45 PM) You make great points there. One question, and on a tangent, if you had an employee whose tweets were costing you money, would you say fire the employee or lose business from customers that don't have the same enlightened attitude you have? On this case, if you were on a jury and learned that the officer that arrested someone had just sent a message that showed hatred for that race, would it affect your opinion of the officer's testimony? If an hour earlier he sent a message about idiot white guys who think they own the world, then arrested a rich white guy, would you have an issue? I think I would. that is going to a legal problem the ability to have their rep call into question. but this is a double end sword, those police officers have rights, their rights to be stupid, whether it was inherent or taught. now how will it play out in their ability to do their job. this is called perceptions of those who he will interact with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 7, 2015 -> 04:45 PM) You make great points there. One question, and on a tangent, if you had an employee whose tweets were costing you money, would you say fire the employee or lose business from customers that don't have the same enlightened attitude you have? On this case, if you were on a jury and learned that the officer that arrested someone had just sent a message that showed hatred for that race, would it affect your opinion of the officer's testimony? If an hour earlier he sent a message about idiot white guys who think they own the world, then arrested a rich white guy, would you have an issue? I think I would. See Mark Fuhrman, OJ Simpson case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Apr 4, 2015 -> 01:52 PM) So...officers should be fired for something they said (texted) in private and what appears to be mostly while not on the job. So should people who tweet/text death threats to pizza owners also be fired from their jobs? If we are policing thought and speech, I would think the death threats are just as bad as racial comments. Or is headhunting only OK for certain groups? Well personally I think they should face charges of some sort. Don't know about firing but that should leave a legal record too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 7, 2015 -> 08:04 PM) See Mark Fuhrman, OJ Simpson case Exactly who I was thinking of. He managed to frame a guilt man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 http://gawker.com/the-horrible-bigoted-tex...cisc-1692183203 The texts are pretty much the cops using race to harrass and watch people. They gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Brian @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 06:09 AM) http://gawker.com/the-horrible-bigoted-tex...cisc-1692183203 The texts are pretty much the cops using race to harrass and watch people. They gone! This is quite the stretch, but whatever, I expect this of you. IMO, these private texts should be used as grounds to investigate whether these police officers ever allowed race to enter into their on the job decisions. This is something you could easily compile based on their past arrest record, history of department violations (if any) such as excessive force, harassment, etc., and if so, were these violations only against people of color? If the investigation concludes that's the case, you take action on them as individuals, but if NOT, f*** it all, but it's their constitutional right to send these texts, whether you or anyone else here likes it or not. Especially when taking into consideration these are private, NON-department issued cell phones. It's NOT a crime to have stupid thoughts or to tell stupid jokes, unless of course it's more than that -- and their work records will easily tell the tale. Hell, if thought crime was convictionable offense, I can say with great certainty I'd be in prison for life. Edited April 10, 2015 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 It's pretty much psychologically impossible to be that big of a piece of s*** racist and not have it reflected in your everyday work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 07:40 AM) It's pretty much psychologically impossible to be that big of a piece of s*** racist and not have it reflected in your everyday work. Well, good thing that will be easy to prove considering their jobs. Now, would you and others here give these officers the same rights you would want, such as due process, a proper investigation, and a trial before convicting them and ruining their lives over what could amount to nothing more than stupid, juvenile, not so funny jokes? Thanks. Edited April 10, 2015 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) They absolutely deserve every bit of due process their contract affords them, and I hope their union does its duty in properly defending its members. There's plenty in there that's not "jokes" at all, and even if they are "jokes," they're still incredibly racist jokes only s***bag racists would find funny. I hope these guys are socially ostracized for being the s***bags that they are--there's pretty much zero context that could ever explain those sorts of "jokes" and the other texts that aren't even attempts at jokes but just straight-up racism away. eta: for example, that first quoted text. He talks about how he's watching the two black kids at his kids' school "like a hawk" simply because they're black. That's a direct reflection of his attitude towards black people and how he approaches his work (assumed criminality/likely criminality), and it's not even an attempt at a joke. It's just a plain statement. Edited April 10, 2015 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 07:56 AM) They absolutely deserve every bit of due process their contract affords them, and I hope their union does its duty in properly defending its members. There's plenty in there that's not "jokes" at all, and even if they are "jokes," they're still incredibly racist jokes only s***bag racists would find funny. I hope these guys are socially ostracized for being the s***bags that they are--there's pretty much zero context that could ever explain those sorts of "jokes" and the other texts that aren't even attempts at jokes but just straight-up racism away. eta: for example, that first quoted text. He talks about how he's watching the two black kids at his kids' school "like a hawk" simply because they're black. That's a direct reflection of his attitude towards black people and how he approaches his work (assumed criminality/likely criminality), and it's not even an attempt at a joke. It's just a plain statement. Well, that's exactly why I said investigate them as individuals. Their arrest records and department histories will surely tell the tale that needs to be told. And for those specific officers, you take action, because there is no room for that nonsense in society. However, I don't like the idea of convicting people over what could be very stupid judgement IF it's shown that these (or maybe only one of them), never allowed any such bulls*** to interfear with their on the job decisions. You're a smart guy, and when it comes to things like this, there are times good people get caught up "trying to fit in", and in doing so, they say some downright stupid things, things they otherwise would never say. Is that stupid? Yes. Should it ruin your life? Not in my opinion. Edited April 10, 2015 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) i am having a hard time in this decision. the commonalty or people rights is now being brought into question. there is, and it is stated in the bill of rights, the freedom to express one self without fear of retribution. the right to have a formed opinion with others. that is the law. people give up that right, what else will next be bought up, your right to not to go to church. yeah this is outlandish idea, but substitute the example and put whatever thoughts you want, it is still the same. oops, i guess that may not be allowed.... it is against someone having a informed opinion. they have rights, i am talking about that only, not the contents of what is being express. Edited April 10, 2015 by LDF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 07:29 AM) This is quite the stretch, but whatever, I expect this of you. Expect this of me? I barely post in here but you think you know about me? Ok. Cops shouldn't go to jail but losing their jobs is more than reasonable. Edited April 10, 2015 by Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 QUOTE (Brian @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 02:34 PM) Expect this of me? I barely post in here but you think you know about me? Ok. Cops shouldn't go to jail but losing their jobs is more than reasonable. i am coming in on the tail end of this conversation, so pls do not get upset. cops should never go to jail???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 08:51 AM) i am coming in on the tail end of this conversation, so pls do not get upset. cops should never go to jail???? He didn't say that, he's talking about this specific circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 One of the cops is being held on unrelated charges right now, but nobody is (or should be) going to jail over these tweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Brian @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 08:34 AM) Expect this of me? I barely post in here but you think you know about me? Ok. Cops shouldn't go to jail but losing their jobs is more than reasonable. Once again, the cops shouldn't go to jail OR lose their jobs if the investigation shows that they didn't treat anyone differently while on the job, despite these text messages. This should be very easy to prove based on arrest records, violations, complaints against them, etc. In such a case, perhaps another form of punishment is in order, short of ruining their lives over being stupid. Call me crazy, but I kind of like giving people second or even third chances when it comes to them being stupid or out of touch so long as it didn't harm anyone. Perhaps some sort of counseling or community service? HOWEVER, IF the investigation shows these texts were more than a group of guys being stupid, and they treated people of color while the job much the same as depicted in these texts, then and only then do I agree they should lose their jobs. As for your first question...yes, I expect this of you, because you've repeatedly tried/convicted and/or fired people without allowing due process or the proper investigation to occur, and interestingly enough, you're doing it again right now. OR, I may very well be confusing you with someone else on here, and if that's the case, I apologize. The second question is quite loaded...you don't need to know everything about a person to "know them" based on some posts here. For example, you know me well enough to know I'm an asshole, and you can tell as much based on my posts. EDIT: I've been stupid plenty of times in my life, especially when I was younger...I've said stupid things and I've done stupid things...but I was given the chance to grow up and wise up, without having my life ruined due to those stupid things. Hell, I've said plenty of stupid things right here on this message board...and depending on the reader, they could easily come to the conclusion I'm a number of terrible things...none of which are true, but I wouldn't blame them for coming to such a conclusion based on the information they have. I just wouldn't want to be convicted of any of it without them actually knowing more about me than what they read in a few posts that could easily be taken out of context. Edited April 10, 2015 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 04:27 PM) He didn't say that, he's talking about this specific circumstance. thanks ..... that is why i asked this the way i did.... i figured as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 That is a stretch to believe these guys could remain objective and do their jobs. They could but if I were a betting man, I'd bet the house they couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 07:20 PM) That is a stretch to believe these guys could remain objective and do their jobs. They could but if I were a betting man, I'd bet the house they couldn't. they can't that is why they should have a police ethical standards board for something like this... i thinki i am writing this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Apr 10, 2015 -> 01:20 PM) That is a stretch to believe these guys could remain objective and do their jobs. They could but if I were a betting man, I'd bet the house they couldn't. I wouldn't bet on it, either...but I'd prefer to let the conclusions of the investigation tell the tale versus guessing because I saw a few ignorant text messages which encompass a two minute snippet of their lives, while not knowing a single thing these guys did the other X number of years they've been alive. Could it be they're completely ignorant racists? Absolutly. And if that's the case, make an example out of them as a warning to all others. I have no issue with this. Could it be a few of them got caught up trying to 'fit in' with the rest of the group, had a very poor lapse in judgement and took part in the ignorance? Yes. And if this is the case, perhaps some other form of punishment, short of ruining their lives is in order. If they're fired, their lives are absolutely destroyed. They won't find other jobs, they will be shamed endlessly, etc., so if we are to take that route, forgive me for wanting to be absolutely sure they (and their bystander families) deserve it. All I can say is if any of you ever f*** up, you'll be praying you get someone like me to be your judge/jury, because holy hell. Edited April 11, 2015 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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