4/17 - White Sox vs Tigers

[pettie4sox]

Getting past all of the anger over the loss, this seems like exactly what happened. Also sounds like by the time he got new word, it was too late to challenge. Remember with the speed of play thing this year, one of the points of focus was to reduce the screwing around and standing around before challenging. The window is much smaller than it used to be when the Manager would come out on the field and stand there for two minutes. They can't do that this year.

 

With the game on the line you just have to go for it. That's all people were saying.

[shysocks]

He got word from his respected, All-Star, vet SS and ignored it. That's the kicker.

But how many times have football players (even vet ones) finished a play and begged their coach to challenge whatever it was, and then you see the replay and they're so far off you wonder where the hell they just were?

 

I don't think you can always trust what your players tell you.

[kitekrazy]

This was talked about ad naseum during his rehab process. They were trying to teach him the Maggs slide so he didn't hurt himself. Think of it this way. What hurts more, losing this one game, or losing Avi for 120 games last year? It isn't about being a (and seriously can we get with the 21st century and stopping using female derogatory terms as insults?) "p****", it is about being smart enough to realize that 1 game

 

If he dives and misses, game over.

 

[southsider2k5]

Once the pinch runner was announced and Robin went back out to challenge it was too late as the play is over.

 

Yep. And they can't wait around for him anymore. They told him there was no challenge, and then play moved on.

[Balta1701]

Getting past all of the anger over the loss, this seems like exactly what happened. Also sounds like by the time he got new word, it was too late to challenge. Remember with the speed of play thing this year, one of the points of focus was to reduce the screwing around and standing around before challenging. The window is much smaller than it used to be when the Manager would come out on the field and stand there for two minutes. They can't do that this year.

Then the default in the 9th inning on a close play should be "get the challenge started".

 

In the time they stood around NY should have been able to get things almost done anyway.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Can someone please give me a summary of all the hoopla? I missed it all.

[bmags]

But how many times have football players (even vet ones) finished a play and begged their coach to challenge whatever it was, and then you see the replay and they're so far off you wonder where the hell they just were?

 

I don't think you can always trust what your players tell you.

 

Challenges are just much less tactical or needed in baseball. and it's the NINTH inning, not the first.

[bmags]

Then the default in the 9th inning on a close play should be "get the challenge started".

 

In the time they stood around NY should have been able to get things almost done anyway.

 

Exactly, it's the same you see with Tennis players. As it gets later they get more risky with challenges because it doesn't matter, you can't use them after the match. They don't rollover.

[JoshPR]

Looking at it, i cant start to fathom how the ump missed it. He was looking right down at the play..

[chitownsportsfan]

Challenges are just much less tactical or needed in baseball. and it's the NINTH inning, not the first.

 

If the manager thinks his challenges are like cell phone minutes and carryover he should be s***canned. HE HAD NOTHING TO LOSE. It doesn't f***ing matter if there was .00000000000000000000000001 chance of an overturn because the video guy in NYC was getting a hummer under the desk and just misses it -- YOU f***ING CHALLENGE ANYWAY.

 

god I'm so angry over this. It just sucks having such a brain dead manager. Ozzie would have challenged that s*** and he sucked in his own way but at least he knows enough to challenge in the 9th when the game is on teh f***ing line.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Is that a player publicly calling out his manager within an hour of the game ending?

 

Good for Alexei. I'm completely fine with those comments in this situation.

[shysocks]

Challenges are just much less tactical or needed in baseball. and it's the NINTH inning, not the first.

Very true, Robin had nothing to lose. But specifically in terms of trusting your players and all that, your guy's word isn't always ironclad.

[Balta1701]

Can someone please give me a summary of all the hoopla? I missed it all.

Garcia bobbles fly ball in RF.

 

Runner goes to 2nd.

 

Garcia fires throw to 2b. Throw easily beats runner.

 

Alexei puts tag down and tags the runner on the foot. Alexei jumps up holding the ball in his hand after he feels the tag. Alexei does not hold the tag in place having confidently tagged him on the foot.

 

Umpire calls runner safe.

 

Alexei immediately pissed, looks to dugout.

 

White Sox broadcast shows replays where Alexei's glove does not touch the runner's body. Tigers broadcast shows clear view of Alexei tagging the runner in the foot that wasn't visible on White Sox broadcast. Hawk and Stone never see the video of the foot being clearly tagged.

 

Robin steps out, wanders around a bit waiting for replay view upstairs, gets notice that they don't even see a "maybe", does not challenge. Wanders around talking to the umps a bit and heads back to dugout after pinch runner is announced and game starts moving on.

 

Presumably the White Sox's video people never saw the video where he was clearly tagged out, that video is linked in this thread and in the "fire ventura" thread below if you want to see it.

 

Ventura did not default to just challenging it anyway, he ignored his SS, and that baserunner wound up being the winning run after a bunt and an infield ground ball.

[southsider2k5]

Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 6m6 minutes ago

 

#WhiteSox official: It is "up to the umpires to determine when the flow of a play is over and the opportunity to challenge has passed."

[chitownsportsfan]

Very true, Robin had nothing to lose. But specifically in terms of trusting your players and all that, your guy's word isn't always ironclad.

 

I think given Ramirez's post game comments he doesn't think much of Robin. It's much, much deeper than just this play. I wonder if he told him in English "IT'S THE 9TH INNING YOU f***ING DUMMY CHALLENGE YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE".

[Balta1701]

Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 6m6 minutes ago

 

#WhiteSox official: It is "up to the umpires to determine when the flow of a play is over and the opportunity to challenge has passed."

Do you think you're defending Robin here?

[ILMOU]

To note - based on that replay, Alexei did not make a "terrible effort". He got the guy on the foot, felt the tag, and got out of the way so the ball wouldn't be knocked away. He then held the ball up so that the ump could see he had it. He did not need to reach for the guy's body because he had tagged him on the foot.

I mean, you can see how the toe moved Lexi's glove, how in the world does the Ump miss that?

 

I'm tired of the obese and elderly officiating my game. Wasn't in the game thread at the time, but if you remember when Boni booted the DPGB, the Ump screened him from the ball way too late by taking a bad path in getting out of the way of the grounder. I'm just pissed here, clearly, but younger, more athletic Umps could help the game a bit.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen

[GreenSox]

Why is Bonifacio starting at 2nd? Johnson needs to play every day.

I have never seen an organization love its medicore declining veterans like this organization.

[flavum]

Even if the ump thought he saw it miss, he should have called him out because the ball beat him by so much. Let the reversal happen on the other end.

[Condor13]

Garcia bobbles fly ball in RF.

 

Runner goes to 2nd.

 

Garcia fires throw to 2b. Throw easily beats runner.

 

Alexei puts tag down and tags the runner on the foot. Alexei jumps up holding the ball in his hand after he feels the tag. Alexei does not hold the tag in place having confidently tagged him on the foot.

 

Umpire calls runner safe.

 

Alexei immediately pissed, looks to dugout.

 

White Sox broadcast shows replays where Alexei's glove does not touch the runner's body. Tigers broadcast shows clear view of Alexei tagging the runner in the foot that wasn't visible on White Sox broadcast. Hawk and Stone never see the video of the foot being clearly tagged.

 

Robin steps out, wanders around a bit waiting for replay view upstairs, gets notice that they don't even see a "maybe", does not challenge. Wanders around talking to the umps a bit and heads back to dugout after pinch runner is announced and game starts moving on.

 

Presumably the White Sox's video people never saw the video where he was clearly tagged out, that video is linked in this thread and in the "fire ventura" thread below if you want to see it.

 

Ventura did not default to just challenging it anyway, he ignored his SS, and that baserunner wound up being the winning run after a bunt and an infield ground ball.

 

You also forgot that Robin also did not intentionally walk a batter or two and instead just hoped that Jennings would strike out the next 2 batters. Which was an EPIC fail.

 

[chitownsportsfan]

Why is Bonifacio starting at 2nd? Johnson needs to play every day.

I have never seen an organization love its medicore declining veterans like this organization.

 

apparently the best time to give the regulars rest is right after the off day. He also benched Garcia AFTER the off day the other day. It's like he's managing with a f***ing dart board.

[daggins]

It really sucks to realize that the team you have supported for years is terminally dumb at all levels.

 

edit - and to see that on full display for all to ridicule.

Edited April 17, 2015 by daggins

[Dunt]

Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 6m6 minutes ago

 

#WhiteSox official: It is "up to the umpires to determine when the flow of a play is over and the opportunity to challenge has passed."

 

Oh boy, this is getting ugly quickly

[Balta1701]

Why is Bonifacio starting at 2nd? Johnson needs to play every day.

I have never seen an organization love its medicore declining veterans like this organization.

Bonifacio and Beckham both should be in the lineup against tough lefties like this. You could pretty easily convince me that Micah, Gillaspie, and LaRoche should all have taken a seat today.

[chitownsportsfan]

It really sucks to realize that the team you have supported for years is terminally dumb at all levels.

 

It sucks even harder knowing it didn't have to be this way. They could have easily sold RV's record as poor and justified a new hire. Instead they extended him and from all indications it was for more than just 2015.

 

Yea dude, it sucks.