4/17 - White Sox vs Tigers

[chitownsportsfan]

Bonifacio and Beckham both should be in the lineup against tough lefties like this. You could pretty easily convince me that Micah, Gillaspie, and LaRoche should all have taken a seat today.

 

If Micah is going to sit against tough lefties he should be in AAA. If he's the future at 2B he's going to be a regular. Regulars play against tough matchups. It's why they are regulars.

 

Of course, on the evidence, he's not a MLB ready 2B. So yea, not only is he not playing every day in the hopes he can improve against tough lefties, he's not in AAA either.

 

Good job White Sox you've completely f***ed it up!

 

Meanwhile all Sanchez does is outhit Micah in spring, play an elite 2B in his cup of coffee last year, and he gets sent to AAA. After Ramirez' comments today they might have a full on mutiny on their hands.

[southsider2k5]

Do you think you're defending Robin here?

 

Adopting the GWB, if you aren't with us, you are against us, strategy here?

[Balta1701]

Adopting the GWB, if you aren't with us, you are against us, strategy here?

No, I'm saying that "the umps get to decide how fast the game needs to move on" to me translates to "your manager moved to f***ing slow and lost the game because of it". It's not a defense, it's an indictment.

[ILMOU]

It sucks even harder knowing it didn't have to be this way. They could have easily sold RV's record as poor and justified a new hire. Instead they extended him and from all indications it was for more than just 2015.

 

Yea dude, it sucks.

And harder still knowing that the reality of removing someone as beloved by JR and the org as RV, is bound to happen much, much past when it should. I would hope that the payroll boost, ticket sales and overall expectations would create an atypical urgency and accountability in the org, but I fear their historically glacial responses will prevail.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen

[fathom]

I was watching a game last week and the manager came out to request a replay for a play in the 9th that wasn't even close, but he acted like he knew he might as well use it. I'm just thankful I wasn't watching the last half of the game live.

[bmags]

No, I'm saying that "the umps get to decide how fast the game needs to move on" to me translates to "your manager moved to f***ing slow and lost the game because of it". It's not a defense, it's an indictment.

 

That's how I interpret it too.

[southsider2k5]

No, I'm saying that "the umps get to decide how fast the game needs to move on" to me translates to "your manager moved to f***ing slow and lost the game because of it". It's not a defense, it's an indictment.

 

Don't let me stand in the way of a good old fashioned torch parade.

[Dunt]

Meanwhile all Sanchez does is outhit Micah in spring, play an elite 2B in his cup of coffee last year, and he gets sent to AAA. After Ramirez' comments today they might have a full on mutiny on their hands.

 

I'd slow down on that.

[chitownsportsfan]

I'd slow down on that.

 

 

SSS but dude he was on pace for 52 runs above average according to UZR. It was elite don't make any mistake we all watched him make the routine and the spactacular. He isn't going to be 50 runs above average but he's a top 1/3 MLB defender at 2B without a doubt. My guess is he's 10 runs above league average and maybe 15-20 better than Micah over the course of the year.

 

Anyways, back to s***ting on the real villain, robin.

Edited April 17, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Dick Allen]

Right. But the Tigers clearly had a better replay of the tag. So:

 

1) Why didn't the Sox have that replay?

 

2) Why wasn't the Sox video crew monitoring the Tigers broadcast feed to see all possible angles?

 

3) Given the situation, score, and Alexi's reaction, why didn't Robin challenge anyway?

 

I can't understand throwing up your hands and saying, "well, what could we do?"

You would think the video guys have the same angles as NY. I don't know if it is uniform. If I had a vote, it would be. As for the situation, if you didn't have access to a replay, but the guys you pay to watch them tell you it was a "clear safe" I doubt you challenge. You may need to later. I do know if he was told clear safe and he challenged anyway and was denied, if the Sox got out of the jam but later got beat on a bad call he couldn't challenge, he would get roasted. What is the purpose of a video crew? As for Alexei, he jumps up and down saying he is safe at first when he is out by almost a full step. I would take the replay guys take. Maybe they had bad angles, but as I said, I think bith teams should have access to the same views that would be used to decide a challenge.

 

I was watching a Bulls game a couple of weeks ago where they reviewed a ball out of bounds. I clearly was off the opponent from what appeared to be the best angle was the opponent was awarded the ball. They said the replay guys didn't have access to that angle, so it is possible the Sox video guys were looking at the same views NY would have had.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Dick Allen

[EvilJester99]

The replays I saw on CSN during the game it loooked like Alexei missed the tag.. He has to make a better effort making that tag.. If he did all the following stupidity would never had happened.

[Balta1701]

The replays I saw on CSN during the game it loooked like Alexei missed the tag.. He has to make a better effort making that tag.. If he did all the following stupidity would never had happened.

Again, CSN did not show the best feed.

 

Alexei absolutely made that tag. He feels the guy's foot hit his glove and then pulls the ball back to avoid hitting the guy's body, which is actually what you're supposed to do because once you've tagged him you don't want to tag the guy again and wind up dropping the ball while making an unnecessary tag.

[chitownsportsfan]

Again, CSN did not show the best feed.

 

Alexei absolutely made that tag. He feels the guy's foot hit his glove and then pulls the ball back to avoid hitting the guy's body, which is actually what you're supposed to do because once you've tagged him you don't want to tag the guy again and wind up dropping the ball while making an unnecessary tag.

 

Alexei did his job. The umps didn't do theirs. Luckily MLB has given us a remedy for that problem, if only our f***ing manager was aware enough to realize it's the 9th-- use the f***ing challenge.

 

[ILMOU]

Again, CSN did not show the best feed.

 

Alexei absolutely made that tag. He feels the guy's foot hit his glove and then pulls the ball back to avoid hitting the guy's body, which is actually what you're supposed to do because once you've tagged him you don't want to tag the guy again and wind up dropping the ball while making an unnecessary tag.

And again, it moved Lexi's glove, and the Ump was right on top of it. Horrid.

[Dick Allen]

Again, CSN did not show the best feed.

 

Alexei absolutely made that tag. He feels the guy's foot hit his glove and then pulls the ball back to avoid hitting the guy's body, which is actually what you're supposed to do because once you've tagged him you don't want to tag the guy again and wind up dropping the ball while making an unnecessary tag.

I think he could have made a far more decisive tag. The last video shows he tagged him, but barely.He just stuck his glove in front of the bag. I love Alexei, but he has some phobias around second base. It took a couple of managers and a lot of pleading to get him to take throws on steal attempts anywhere near 2B.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Dick Allen

[chitownsportsfan]

Robin is getting lit up on twitter. As he should.

[flavum]

Robin is getting lit up on twitter. As he should.

 

Robin Ventura for Britt McHenry

[chitownsportsfan]

Robin Ventura for Britt McHenry

 

I would settle for Erik Wedge at this f***ing point.

[illinilaw08]

You would think the video guys have the same angles as NY. I don't know if it is uniform. If I had a vote, it would be. As for the situation, if you didn't have access to a replay, but the guys you pay to watch them tell you it was a "clear safe" I doubt you challenge. You may need to later. I do know if he was told clear safe and he challenged anyway and was denied, if the Sox got out of the jam but later got beat on a bad call he couldn't challenge, he would get roasted. What is the purpose of a video crew? As for Alexei, he jumps up and down saying he is safe at first when he is out by almost a full step. I would take the replay guys take. Maybe they had bad angles, but as I said, I think bith teams should have access to the same views that would be used to decide a challenge.

 

I was watching a Bulls game a couple of weeks ago where they reviewed a ball out of bounds. I clearly was off the opponent from what appeared to be the best angle was the opponent was awarded the ball. They said the replay guys didn't have access to that angle, so it is possible the Sox video guys were looking at the same views NY would have had.

 

Please clarify your position for me.

 

My take is that there was an organizational failure on this play.

 

1) The Sox broadcast didn't have the best angle of the tag. Why didn't they?

 

2) The Tigers broadcast had that angle. Did the Sox video crew have access to the Tigers feed and, if so, why weren't they looking at all possible angles to put Robin in the best position to succeed?

 

3) Even in light of the above, given score and situation, Robin still should have challenged because runner on 2nd with nobody out in a tie game in the bottom of the 9th merits making the umps take a look.

 

Even if you are taking Robin's statement at face value, and the video crew told Robin Alexi definitively missed the tag, and Robin is excused from challenging the call, there is still a failure by the organization because the information relayed to Robin was wrong. Objectively, the White Sox had bad information that potentially cost them the game.

 

My take, reading your arguments in this thread, is that you are arguing there wasn't anything the Sox could do. Is that a correct reading of your take on the play?

 

[oldsox]

If Micah is going to sit against tough lefties he should be in AAA. If he's the future at 2B he's going to be a regular. Regulars play against tough matchups. It's why they are regulars.

 

Of course, on the evidence, he's not a MLB ready 2B. So yea, not only is he not playing every day in the hopes he can improve against tough lefties, he's not in AAA either.

 

Good job White Sox you've completely f***ed it up!

 

Meanwhile all Sanchez does is outhit Micah in spring, play an elite 2B in his cup of coffee last year, and he gets sent to AAA. After Ramirez' comments today they might have a full on mutiny on their hands.

What were his comments?

[pettie4sox]

What were his comments?

 

Look back a few pages for the quote.

[chitownsportsfan]

What were his comments?

 

He threw Robin under the bus as hard and direct as I've ever seen a player do so. Basically said in so many words that Robin f***ED UP. Direct quote was something like "You have to challenge because it's the 9th even if you don't think you'll win".

[flavum]

Here's the video of Robin and Alexei after the game.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0417-story.html

[pettie4sox]

Ramirez said he made the tag.

 

“In the ninth inning you have to review that play,” Ramirez said. “Maybe they missed it the first time on the video. I’m 100 percent that I tagged him. If you are going to lose you don’t want to lose in this way.”

[chitownsportsfan]

Rongey defending Robin now trying to blame Alexei for not "insisting" he made the play. Wow. What's Ramirez supposed to do it was obvious from his body language he knew he made the play. Did RV miss that?