southsider2k5 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 The most interesting thing here is the description of the review process internally. http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/...-shift-strategy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 11:04 AM) The most interesting thing here is the description of the review process internally. http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/...-shift-strategy Stone said last night, there are actually a couple of views NY gets that neither teams' replay guys get. That seems silly to me. Just give the replay guys the exact same thing they will see in NY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShandyMan Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) time to hire another hand or two rather than having one guy play whack a mole. perfect job for some interns. Edited April 21, 2015 by staxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 QUOTE (staxx @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 04:30 PM) time to hire another hand or two rather than having one guy play whack a mole. perfect job for some interns. this is bull crap, the FO should have anticipated this as they should have anticipated and review any, old or new process and keep them up to date. in other words, audit the procedures yearly. this is a multi million dollar company and they don't have this process establish?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 12:28 PM) Stone said last night, there are actually a couple of views NY gets that neither teams' replay guys get. That seems silly to me. Just give the replay guys the exact same thing they will see in NY. It makes too much sense if the goal is to get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) this is bull crap, the FO should have anticipated this as they should have anticipated and review any, old or new process and keep them up to date. in other words, audit the procedures yearly. this is a multi million dollar company and they don't have this process establish?? Much like the Bulls' medical staff pre Jen it was a huge f***up and a crisis necessitates change. At the same time however a competent manager of any company -- Robin included -- fixes all the mistakes with a good executive decision. That the buck didn't stop with Robin is disheartening but at least they realized what a huge f***up it was rather than burying their heads in the sand. That said, much like the Bulls and injuries (sorry Luol) the damage has already been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 06:21 PM) Much like the Bulls' medical staff pre Jen it was a huge f***up and a crisis necessitates change. At the same time however a competent manager of any company -- Robin included -- fixes all the mistakes with a good executive decision. That the buck didn't stop with Robin is disheartening but at least they realized what a huge f***up it was rather than burying their heads in the sand. That said, much like the Bulls and injuries (sorry Luol) the damage has already been done. i will grant and understand what you are saying, my point, this is totally unexcusable screw up. this is an error on the logistics side to baseball. the buck stop with the owners group, and their people who was place in charge of overseeing such minor details as this. any major corporations have what is call check and balance dept. this make the sox org looks really bad.... just imagine what i am saying, not the rant, but the imagine this portrays thru out the baseball world. laughing stocks is what i see. i am in such a pissy mode i made a mistake. correction added and i am leaving for the day. Edited April 21, 2015 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 12:21 PM) Much like the Bulls' medical staff pre Jen it was a huge f***up and a crisis necessitates change. At the same time however a competent manager of any company -- Robin included -- fixes all the mistakes with a good executive decision. That the buck didn't stop with Robin is disheartening but at least they realized what a huge f***up it was rather than burying their heads in the sand. That said, much like the Bulls and injuries (sorry Luol) the damage has already been done. There was nothing wrong with Jeff and the athletic training staff. Her coming in to be the "supervisor" for a couple of the players has really made a current mess out of things. Not necessarily her fault as she was put in a difficult position but you will see changes after this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) i will grant and understand what you are saying, my point, this is totally excusable screw up. this is an error on the logistics side to baseball. the buck stop with the owners group, and their people who was place in charge of overseeing such minor details as this. any major corporations have what is call check and balance dept. this make the sox org looks really bad.... just imagine what i am saying, not the rant, but the imagine this portrays thru out the baseball world. laughing stocks is what i see. Trust me, I'm with you. It's an inexcusable f***up. If I was in charge I would have fired Robin after the game. The buck has to stop with the CEO and the CEO (Robin in this case) failed the entire org. Yes there were "holes in the swiss cheese" that lined up a long the way but in any analysis you have a chance to make it all right by the no brainer, 9th inning, "use it or lose it" challenge. That Robin didn't use his challenge will remain one of the biggest mysteries of the season. If the Sox miss the playoffs by one game you can easily point to the 2 games last week where Robin actively screwed them and say "sorry, but not sorry, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out". Get a real manager for '16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 01:32 PM) There was nothing wrong with Jeff and the athletic training staff. Her coming in to be the "supervisor" for a couple of the players has really made a current mess out of things. Not necessarily her fault as she was put in a difficult position but you will see changes after this season. Uh, there's no way the Deng situation was not a colossal f***up. He could have died thanks to the Bulls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 12:35 PM) Uh, there's no way the Deng situation was not a colossal f***up. He could have died thanks to the Bulls. That's mostly the physicians. Way above the responsibility of any of the athletic trainers, although they were the first ones there. I thought you were talking about the the Bulls inserting her into the athletic training staff and the changes they made. The new dynamics has nothing to do with that. Besides everyone does make mistakes. Where would the Sox be without Herm. He caught alot of grief when he chipped Greg Walker's teeth out during a seizure. Edited April 21, 2015 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 11:28 AM) Stone said last night, there are actually a couple of views NY gets that neither teams' replay guys get. That seems silly to me. Just give the replay guys the exact same thing they will see in NY. That's beyond silly. That is stupid. Every team should get the same replays. It's no wonder it can be a cluster f*** at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Robin is and always will be wrong for this job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Would have preferred for the announcement to come from Ventura and Hahn jointly... Or from Ventura and the video guy (who they still haven't named publicly)...feels like there would be more accountability that way, rather than rationalizations of what has already happened. Why don't they (the White Sox) put forward a petition or request to the Office of the Commissioner requesting that both the home, away and NY feeds all be the exact same and synchronized? Why isn't that possible in this day and age of modern tech apps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 can someone pls explain how this is falling on Robin's shoulder?? it was the camera person angle and fault, so why is Robin getting hanged out to dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 It was the White Sox for being "unlucky" not to have the opposing team's feed (and really, they should have TWO interns going with both home and away feeds instead of one going back and forth desperately in a 20-40 second window,...with a video supervisor making the final call as to what to tell the manger, problem easily solved)...because the Detroit broadcast clearly showed he was tagged on the foot, whereas Comcast angles were inconclusive and/or showed he missed the knee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 11:17 PM) It was the White Sox for being "unlucky" not to have the opposing team's feed (and really, they should have TWO interns going with both home and away feeds instead of one going back and forth desperately in a 20-40 second window,...with a video supervisor making the final call as to what to tell the manger, problem easily solved)...because the Detroit broadcast clearly showed he was tagged on the foot, whereas Comcast angles were inconclusive and/or showed he missed the knee. then it is not RV fault, he did not hire the camera people and who ever is the sup in that booth, this falls on his lap and for whomever is over that person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 He's more at fault for logic...as Hahn pointed, out, equally important is "game situation," and in the bottom of the 9th inning of a tie ballgame, that's probably it more times than not if that runner's allowed to stay at 2nd base with a non-closer on the mound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Had the White Sox trusted Ramirez, who was gesturing frantically, or just gone ahead and risked their challenge on such an important play in the ninth inning, perhaps Friday’s outcome at Detroit would have been different. We do not want people to think and make decisions. Instead we want numbers and procedures and strategy that is bound in research. There needs to be a balance. You have to include the players in this. Of everyone associated with the Sox, who had the absolute best view of the play? Ramirez. Who is not part of the process and still won't be? Ramirez. I hate to bring his name up but Oz's managing from the gut probably would have had his ass out of the dugout as soon as he saw his player's actions, not waiting on someone viewing it from various TV angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 11:34 AM) We do not want people to think and make decisions. Instead we want numbers and procedures and strategy that is bound in research. There needs to be a balance. You have to include the players in this. Of everyone associated with the Sox, who had the absolute best view of the play? Ramirez. Who is not part of the process and still won't be? Ramirez. I hate to bring his name up but Oz's managing from the gut probably would have had his ass out of the dugout as soon as he saw his player's actions, not waiting on someone viewing it from various TV angles. This is true to a point. You need to take into consideration that the player always thinks he did the correct thing. Look at football. How many times does a receiver insist he caught the ball and wants a replay, when to replay clearly shows the ball touched the ground. The only way to truly handle it is to have enough people reviewing the play so that the manager has enough information to challenge it. How many people would rip Lovie Smith's decisions to challenge play just because they were important play? His success rate was one of the worst in the league. Now, the difference between the two is Lovie cost his team timeouts with poor decisions which really effects the game later on, where Robin doesn't have this penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 11:50 AM) This is true to a point. You need to take into consideration that the player always thinks he did the correct thing. Look at football. How many times does a receiver insist he caught the ball and wants a replay, when to replay clearly shows the ball touched the ground. The only way to truly handle it is to have enough people reviewing the play so that the manager has enough information to challenge it. How many people would rip Lovie Smith's decisions to challenge play just because they were important play? His success rate was one of the worst in the league. Now, the difference between the two is Lovie cost his team timeouts with poor decisions which really effects the game later on, where Robin doesn't have this penalty. And when Eaton told Robin the ball hit him on the hand, the challenge didn't work. It might have, and probably did hit his hand. The fact is, no matter how much Alexei claims he tagged him, if the replay guys see the same thing the guy reviewing the play sees, if they see a miss, the challenge isn't going to work. The big fail IMO is the actual replays and that is on the league. Both teams should look at the exact same thing the guy reviewing the play would be looking at. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 05:58 PM) And when Eaton told Robin the ball hit him on the hand, the challenge didn't work. It might have, and probably did hit his hand. The fact is, no matter how much Alexei claims he tagged him, if the replay guys see the same thing the guy reviewing the play sees, if they see a miss, the challenge isn't going to work. The big fail IMO is the actual replays and that is on the league. Both teams should look at the exact same thing the guy reviewing the play would be looking at. Nothing more, nothing less. that is the point, all of those reviews should be standardized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) The big fail IMO is the actual replays and that is on the league. Both teams should look at the exact same thing the guy reviewing the play would be looking at. Nothing more, nothing less. Great point. I was really shocked that it wasn't already standardized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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