Carlos Rodon's Major League Debut

[greg775]

Not ready.

 

Bad situation to bring him in.

 

Get his ass back to Charlotte for 8 starts, and then talk.

 

And Robin stinks.

Exactly. I mean this whole idea of limiting his innings is stupid. I mean, it's like the Sox are afraid they are going to make the playoffs and have to shut him down like Washington did with Strasburg.

Send him down and have him start games in the minors. Period.

 

As far as his performance, he was no good tonight. Do I blame him? No. It was his debut. He got hit hard (that double off the top of the wall) and was wild and stunk. The whole situation reeked though. Why did he have to come in tonight when he did? Like Caufield says, it's stupid how many games the Sox drop like it's no big deal. Some year we are gonna be 11-3 like KC is now and happy again.

[Dick Allen]

His debut was fine. Like a lot of other people I wasn't a fan of when he was put in, I thought it was setting him up to fail. You know he is going to be semi nervous with a lot of adrenaline going through him, so why would you bring him in a 1 run game in the 6th with runners on 1st and 3rd? They really needed to bring him in that moment? I just felt like the coaching staff (Robin & Coop) were willing to throw the game away so Rodon could pitch. I would have been totally fine bringing him in to start the 6th or 7th or bringing him in with nobody on. He has never come out of the bullpen, he's not use to it and the first thing you do is put him in a high leverage situation against a division opponent when we have already had a tough start to the season. Just not a smart decision, IMO

So when are you supposed to bring him in? You said to start an inning. Well he started the 7th and gave up 2 runs, so if they did that people would moan. Some say he should be a starter. Well, he would have been nervous then, and probably would have given up runs, and if he did start and gave up a couple of runs in the first inning, they obviously should then yank him instead of "leaving him out there to die" like the hindsighters claimed in the game thread, blowing out the bullpen, perhaps throwing a couple games away.

 

They weren't throwimg the game away. They got him in with a L/L matchup and a guy hitting .150. Unfortunately he was so amped he couldn't throw a strike. It happens.

 

This isn't a guy who needs to be babied.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[LDF]

So when are you supposed to bring him in? You said to start an inning. Well he started the 7th and gave up 2 runs, so if they did that people would moan. Some say he should be a starter. Well, he would have been nervous then, and probably would have given up runs, and if he did start and gave up a couple of runs in the first inning, they obviously should then yank him instead of "leaving him out there to die" like the hindsighters claimed in the game thread, blowing out the bullpen, perhaps throwing a couple games away.

 

They weren't throwimg the game away. They got him in with a L/L matchup and a guy hitting .150. Unfortunately he was so amped he couldn't throw a strike. It happens.

 

This isn't a guy who needs to be babied.

 

damn if you do, damn if you don't. the strategy was perfect and well thought out. as you said, he was too hype up to do anything good. well at least he got his first game out of the way. wish that it ended better.

[Big Hurtin]

He needs to either ditch the mustache, or get in touch with Jose Valentin to learn how to do it right.

 

His pitching? He'll get there. People need to R-E-L-A-X.

[caulfield12]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/4/22/8466...f-robin-ventura

 

Dick Allen will like this, second guessing the second guessers.

 

Of course, he stillgets plenty of shots in at Ventura regardless.

[Rooftop Shots]

I'm still wondering if they brought him up when they did, in order to put some added pressure on Danks and Noesi and have them realize that someone is knocking on the backdoor of their jobs, and that if either of them want to keep theirs, then they had better earn it QUICK before our loss column in the division turns into a fiasco.

[ptatc]

I for one love how he is fighting and battling in a situation he has NEVER been in before. This was his first time EVER coming out of the bullpen (at any level) and the team put him in a Fail-Fail situation. He looked like he was over-throwing his fastball with all that adreneline it is understandable. His fastball looked like it has some late life to it and that slider looked wicked. I thought that the players around him looked like they were more supportive and understanding of the situation he was brought in to, but that may just be my optimism. Hopefully this gets all the jitters and butterflies out of the way and he can go back to STARTING very soon. Thought?

I would disagree on three points.

 

1. if the Sox want im in the majors this years it has to be in the bullpen. He can only pitch about 160 innings this year. Which means if he is a full time starter anywhere he will be done on August. Fans will go crazy if he is pitching well and they shut him down ala Strasburg.

 

2. While the average pitcher needs a defined role for comfort and confidence, the really good ones do not. Examples such as Sale, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens and others go to the bullpen and rotation whether it be in the reagular season or post season. If Rodon is as good as people think he should be able to handle it.

 

3. This is a pitcher who has always had and will have command issues. He will be fine but it's not a surprise to see him struggle this way early in his career regardless of the situation.

[Y2Jimmy0]

At first, I was in the camp that was vehemently against him pitching out of the bullpen ever. I have changed my mind on that. People are acting like he's going to be a reliever for the whole season. I think the people that believe he should be starting right now would also complain when the Sox shut him down in early August. You can't have it both ways and I've accepted that. Rodon will most likely make 20-25 starts this season and be a rotation fixture for the next 6 years. It's really not that big of a deal.

[Dick Allen]

Didn't come out of the bullpen a time or 2 in Spring Training? It's not like the process isn't something he hasn't done before.

 

I just am shocked, shocked, there was no criticism beforehand in the gamethread, but once he struggled, how many people just knew exactly what was going to happen, and how stupid Robin Ventura is...

 

The sad thing is Rayburn hit a nice pitch, 98 on the hands, and he didn't hit it very well. If a pitcher from another team throws him that, he's probably out.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Well, knowing that Jennings was supposedly hurting, that eliminates one argument against Rodon being used in that particular situation.

 

Still, theres a huge difference between doing it thirty plus times at FGCU and in the minors (2010) vs. just a "couple of times" in meaningless spring training games.

Edited April 22, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Well, knowing that Jennings was supposedly hurting, that eliminates one argument against Rodon being used in that particular situation.

 

Still, theres a huge difference between doing it thirty plus times at FGCU and in the minors (2010) vs. just a "couple of times" in meaningless spring training games.

Would you put the chances at zero that if Robin left Noesi in and Moss did damage, or Robin put Putnam in the game and Moss reached, that not one of the posters complaining after the fact about Rodon, would not have been ripping Robin for not using Rodon?

 

All of the hindsighters are always right. They do expose themselves occassionally, like the people who couldn't believe dumb Robin would pinch hit Shuck for Soto, and Shuck delivers a game winning hit. Oh, it was the same Soto who they were complaining and going on and on about how terrible he is his very next appearance.

[caulfield12]

Would you put the chances at zero that if Robin left Noesi in and Moss did damage, or Robin put Putnam in the game and Moss reached, that not one of the posters complaining after the fact about Rodon, would not have been ripping Robin for not using Rodon?

 

All of the hindsighters are always right. They do expose themselves occassionally, like the people who couldn't believe dumb Robin would pinch hit Shuck for Soto, and Shuck delivers a game winning hit. Oh, it was the same Soto who they were complaining and going on and on about how terrible he is his very next appearance.

 

Except you're never going to win...Robin has three "blown" games already this week, whereas you have two nights ago and the Shuck/Soto example.

 

Not to mention the general feeling around the team right now...poor baserunning, defense, fundamentals, low OBP and lack of clutch hitting with RISP other than the 9th inning rally this week. Too much of a trend to fight against, in the end.

 

If Detroit and KC werent off to such great starts and the Sox werent such notorious slow starters out of the gate, this wouldnt be as much of an issue. But it is what it is.

[ptatc]

Exactly. I mean this whole idea of limiting his innings is stupid. I mean, it's like the Sox are afraid they are going to make the playoffs and have to shut him down like Washington did with Strasburg.

Send him down and have him start games in the minors. Period.

 

As far as his performance, he was no good tonight. Do I blame him? No. It was his debut. He got hit hard (that double off the top of the wall) and was wild and stunk. The whole situation reeked though. Why did he have to come in tonight when he did? Like Caufield says, it's stupid how many games the Sox drop like it's no big deal. Some year we are gonna be 11-3 like KC is now and happy again.

This is a requirement for ALL young pitchers. They cannot go from pitching a max of 130 innings to 200 in one year without significant injury risk. Even if he stays in the minors, he would be shutdown at that limit.

 

It's like taking a 100 meter runner and having him run a 5k. He could do it. it would be a quality race and the risk for injury is substantial, if he really tries.

[ptatc]

Well, knowing that Jennings was supposedly hurting, that eliminates one argument against Rodon being used in that particular situation.

 

Still, theres a huge difference between doing it thirty plus times at FGCU and in the minors (2010) vs. just a "couple of times" in meaningless spring training games.

If Rodon has the talent everyone thinks, he should have no trouble handling it. He just had a poor outing. This would have happened no matter when the Sox put him in.

[ptatc]

Except you're never going to win...Robin has three "blown" games already this week, whereas you have two nights ago and the Shuck/Soto example.

 

Not to mention the general feeling around the team right now...poor baserunning, defense, fundamentals, low OBP and lack of clutch hitting with RISP other than the 9th inning rally this week. Too much of a trend to fight against, in the end.

 

If Detroit and KC werent off to such great starts and the Sox werent such notorious slow starters out of the gate, this wouldnt be as much of an issue. But it is what it is.

Robin has not "blown" 3 games. The players have. The poor base running, and fundamentals can be blamed on coaching. Low OBP and lack of hitting is on the players. OBP is a players talent. It can be taught some but it's mostly "they are who they are."

[SCCWS]

I think this whole situation is like the Cubs calling up Bryant and then having him not start but come in to pinch hit in the 7th down a run with a man on third and telling him to do a suicide squeeze.

 

Actually the national media made a big deal of Bryant coming into his first game and batting 4th. mentioned all the pressure and how rare it is for a player to hit 4th in his first MLB game. Obviously he showed the pressure and how he performed his 1st start.

 

[Dick Allen]

If Noesi or another reliever, RH, because Jennings wasn't available, pitched to Moss and he got a hit, every single complainer now would be complaining Robin didn't use Rodon.

 

He had a L/L match up with a .150 hitter. Seems like a nice first batter to face. You know how everyone is complaining about Adam LaRoche not being able to hit lefties? Moss is 1-9 with 6 strikeouts. You had to like Rodon's chances. He was too amped. Some guys can get over it in a pitch or 2. He took another inning. It wasn't like you can say it would have been fine had he just started an inning. He did that and gave up 2 runs.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

I was watching Rodon in bullpen before he went out. He was all over the place there too, and you could see everyone just telling him to slow down.

 

I thought Moss was a good batter to go against too, but he was not near plate.

[DashFan]

Actually the national media made a big deal of Bryant coming into his first game and batting 4th. mentioned all the pressure and how rare it is for a player to hit 4th in his first MLB game. Obviously he showed the pressure and how he performed his 1st start.

 

That would've meant putting Carlos in a situation he was familiar with. I'm sure Bryant has hit in the middle of the order most of his career. Carlos starting a game would've been a lot of pressure, but at least a good familiar situation for him to get his start in the majors. Bringing Carlos into a high leverage situation when he has never worked out of the 'pen is not like having Bryant hit fourth.

[Dick Allen]

That would've meant putting Carlos in a situation he was familiar with. I'm sure Bryant has hit in the middle of the order most of his career. Carlos starting a game would've been a lot of pressure, but at least a good familiar situation for him to get his start in the majors. Bringing Carlos into a high leverage situation when he has never worked out of the 'pen is not like having Bryant hit fourth.

Rodon has pitched with men on base before. Again, he started the next inning when the game wasn't really on the line anymore and gave up 2 runs. It kind of ruins the theory that the men on base was the thing that bothered him.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

Carlos was also warming up for 1.5 innings. So, yes, this bullpen stint is very strange for him.

[southsider2k5]

I think this whole situation is like the Cubs calling up Bryant and then having him not start but come in to pinch hit in the 7th down a run with a man on third and telling him to do a suicide squeeze.

 

Calling him up and having him hit clean up as a rookie, being the first rookie to do it for the Cubs in 74 years isn't pressure?

[shysocks]

If Noesi or another reliever, RH, because Jennings wasn't available, pitched to Moss and he got a hit, every single complainer now would be complaining Robin didn't use Rodon.

 

He had a L/L match up with a .150 hitter. Seems like a nice first batter to face. You know how everyone is complaining about Adam LaRoche not being able to hit lefties? Moss is 1-9 with 6 strikeouts. You had to like Rodon's chances. He was too amped. Some guys can get over it in a pitch or 2. He took another inning. It wasn't like you can say it would have been fine had he just started an inning. He did that and gave up 2 runs.

That sums it up. Removing Noesi was definitely the right call as he was getting fatigued. You have to make Moss face a lefty. Jennings was not available.

 

So you're left with Rodon or Duke. Using Duke so early in the game wouldn't be a bad idea because it was an important spot, but that would have been just as unorthodox as having Rodon make his debut with runners on the corners, and if Duke is unavailable to pitch to Moss with the bases loaded in the 8th or something, then Ventura gets fried for that too. Rodon has talent and wouldn't be the first person to succeed despite nerves. He just didn't.

 

Seems to me Robin had two equally valid yet problematic options. The real problem is that the Sox scored fewer than three runs for the 7th time in 13 games. Every decision gets magnified when that is happening. I am not a fan of Robin, but come on guys - not everything is his fault.

[LDF]

I would disagree on three points.

 

1. if the Sox want im in the majors this years it has to be in the bullpen. He can only pitch about 160 innings this year. Which means if he is a full time starter anywhere he will be done on August. Fans will go crazy if he is pitching well and they shut him down ala Strasburg.

 

2. While the average pitcher needs a defined role for comfort and confidence, the really good ones do not. Examples such as Sale, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens and others go to the bullpen and rotation whether it be in the reagular season or post season. If Rodon is as good as people think he should be able to handle it.

 

3. This is a pitcher who has always had and will have command issues. He will be fine but it's not a surprise to see him struggle this way early in his career regardless of the situation.

 

Randy Johnson, the ultimate player. pitch the opening game of the playoff, came in several days later to pitch in relief when his team had the lead and started 2 days later, this last part i think is true.

 

he was putting everything on the line for the playoff. i even think as a joke he said that he would have played a position, if the team needed him to.

[ptatc]

Randy Johnson, the ultimate player. pitch the opening game of the playoff, came in several days later to pitch in relief when his team had the lead and started 2 days later, this last part i think is true.

 

he was putting everything on the line for the playoff. i even think as a joke he said that he would have played a position, if the team needed him to.

True. He also had the ability and mental makeup to do it. This is why he is an HOF. Not all players have all of these attributes. But the HOF to really good ones do.