Was I wrong about this Team?

[LDF]

 

i went and looked again at the stat for this team thus far. way below avg.

 

Jose A hits 4 hrs already, what would it been if there were men on base at those times.

 

i don't know, someone mention change the line up. Eaton, hitting 170, MJ hitting what 240, well switch them. who else his hitting a little better than the others??

[caulfield12]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/han...tric/order/true

 

Markakis, Snider, Aoki, Ike Davis, Adam Lind, Kendrys Morales and Ben Zobrist., Dexter Fowler..those are the only realistic names here.

 

We werent in a position to go after Heyward.

 

 

[caulfield12]

i went and looked again at the stat for this team thus far. way below avg.

 

Jose A hits 4 hrs already, what would it been if there were men on base at those times.

 

i don't know, someone mention change the line up. Eaton, hitting 170, MJ hitting what 240, well switch them. who else his hitting a little better than the others??

 

Johnson's not ready for that kind of pressure....Eatons going to have to fight his way out of this on his own.

[Whisox05]

This.

 

The reason we're scoring 2 runs per game is because literally all the starters (except Abreu) are performing below expectations, not because LaRoche has a platoon disadvantage.

 

Honestly even Abreu is not producing what he is capable of. He has been at the plate alot with runners on and in scoring position and strikes out or hits into an out. Plus he isn't hitting Lhp right now. He's hitting .143 against left handed pitchers and .091 vs starting left handed pitchers

 

[Dick Allen]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/han...tric/order/true

 

Markakis, Snider, Aoki, Ike Davis, Adam Lind, Kendrys Morales and Ben Zobrist., Dexter Fowler..those are the only realistic names here.

 

We werent in a position to go after Heyward.

The White Sox had the second best offer for Heyward.

 

He hits lefties worse than LaRoche.

 

Abreu has been equally as bad vs. LH as LaRoche this season. I'm guessing that won't continue, but it is funny how much crap LaRoche gets, and Jose, zero.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[LDF]

Johnson's not ready for that kind of pressure....Eatons going to have to fight his way out of this on his own.

 

you are prob right, i just throwing things out there to, as someone said, change the lineup.

[bmags]

Honestly even Abreu is not producing what he is capable of. He has been at the plate alot with runners on and in scoring position and strikes out or hits into an out. Plus he isn't hitting Lhp right now. He's hitting .143 against left handed pitchers and .091 vs starting left handed pitchers

 

Yep, after opening inning home run, Jose came up twice with RISP and k'd.

[Lillian]

The small sample size, this early in the season, should give us confidence that most of these players will eventually hit close to their career norms.

La Roche however, has not been productive vs. LHP, for a few years now. At his age, and given his recent history, it would seem unrealistic to expect him

to suddenly start hitting lefties.

 

Of course, a lot of teams have hitters who struggle vs. lefties, or vice versa. The point is that we are talking about our clean up hitter. Moreover, we were hoping that this was going to be more than just an average team. This was supposed to be a well constructed team, that would compete. "Not so much".

Edited April 22, 2015 by Lillian

[Lillian]

I would prefer to have Mike Trout, but the reality is we dont have him. Your point always is "We need a lefty hitter that can hit lefties very well" and time and time again you are shown that this type of person either does not exist, is not available, or is in the hall of fame. Adam Laroche is a capable hitter and he offers protection for Abreu. He isnt perfect, but he can field his position very well which gives him a step up from his predecessor. He is NOT Adam Dunn.

 

And your obsession is not arguable. It is well documented, it is a fact.

 

No, my point in other posts, over the last couple of years, has consistently been that we needed a middle of the order left handed bat, to break up all of the right handed hitters. The Sox haven't had a good one, since Thome. Apparently, the front office felt the same way. Rick Hahn articulated that view, on multiple occasions. I'm just disappointed that they weren't able to sign someone who was also respectable vs. left handed pitching.

[Dick Allen]

The small sample size, this early in the season, should give us confidence that most of these players will eventually hit close to their career norms.

La Roche however, has not been productive vs. LHP, for a few years now. At his age, and given his recent history, it would seem unrealistic to expect him

to suddenly start hitting lefties.

 

Of course, a lot of teams have hitters who struggle vs. lefties, or vice versa. The point is that we are talking about our clean up hitter. Moreover, we were hoping that this was going to be more than just an average team. This was supposed to be a well constructed team, that would compete. "Not so much".

So we should have confidence most will hit near their career norms except LaRoche. The good news is if you don't think LaRoche will ever hit lefties is that there are only about 1 in 5 pitchers who are lefties.

VS. LHP

 

.222/.308/.675

.239/.297/.716

 

The top guy is the guy you posted over and over about how the Sox needed to sign him because they needed a LH hitter so badly, and you plugged him into the 4 spot.

 

The guy on the bottom you have already written off after 13 games saying he can't hit clean up because he can't hit lefties. I know the losses suck, and some people go way overboard, but you usually do not. Until now.

[LDF]

No, my point in other posts, over the last couple of years, has consistently been that we needed a middle of the order left handed bat, to break up all of the right handed hitters. The Sox haven't had a good one, since Thome. Apparently, the front office felt the same way. Rick Hahn articulated that view, on multiple occasions. I'm just disappointed that they weren't able to sign someone who was also respectable vs. left handed pitching.

 

i was and still am a huge fan of Adam. every since the season ended last yr, i was vocalizing that the sox should get him.

 

Adam will hit, this team will come around, they need time. will they go on a tear to put themselves in contentions??? that is what i am wondering.

[LDF]

this is a post of a lineup change, to shake things up.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/stats/C...&_1:col_1=4

 

i don't buy the MJ moving to #1 as being too much pressure, he has his indoctrination into the big leagues already, however i also like EB for conor and JB for Eaton. for a game. things to shake this team up.

Edited April 22, 2015 by LDF

[Lillian]

So we should have confidence most will hit near their career norms except LaRoche. The good news is if you don't think LaRoche will ever hit lefties is that there are only about 1 in 5 pitchers who are lefties.

VS. LHP

 

.222/.308/.675

.239/.297/.716

 

The top guy is the guy you posted over and over about how the Sox needed to sign him because they needed a LH hitter so badly, and you plugged him into the 4 spot.

 

The guy on the bottom you have already written off after 13 games saying he can't hit clean up because he can't hit lefties. I know the losses suck, and some people go way overboard, but you usually do not. Until now.

 

Adam La Roche is 35 years old. This isn't likely to improve.

Here is what he hit vs. LHP last year, and the year before:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS

137 13 28 3 0 5 16 0 0 15 43 .204 .284 .336 .620

131 11 26 6 0 3 12 1 0 9 38 .198 .254 .313 .566

 

81 strike outs in 268 at bats (33%) and an OBP well under .300. I'm sorry, but you simply can't have a clean up hitter hitting that poorly, vs. LHP. The opposing manager will go to the pen, for a LOOGY, every time he comes up, with men on base, in a close game, after the 6TH inning.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Lillian

[Dick Allen]

Adam La Roche is 35 years old. This isn't likely to improve.

Here is what he hit vs. LHP last year, and the year before:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS

137 13 28 3 0 5 16 0 0 15 43 .204 .284 .336 .620

131 11 26 6 0 3 12 1 0 9 38 .198 .254 .313 .566

 

81 strike outs in 268 at bats (33%) and an OBP well under .300. I'm sorry, but you simply can't have a clean up hitter hitting that poorly, vs. LHP. The opposing manager will go to the pen, for a LOOGY, every time he comes up, with men on base, in a close game, after the 6TH inning.

Let them go to a LOOGY every time. Avi is either going to get that LOOGY, or they are going to be running out of pitchers quickly.

 

The White Sox did what you wanted. They went out and got a middle of the order LH hitter. One who actually hits lefties far better than the LH hitter you were clamouring for, yet, you are complaining.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Y2Jimmy0]

Adam La Roche is 35 years old. This isn't likely to improve.

Here is what he hit vs. LHP last year, and the year before:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS

137 13 28 3 0 5 16 0 0 15 43 .204 .284 .336 .620

131 11 26 6 0 3 12 1 0 9 38 .198 .254 .313 .566

 

81 strike outs in 268 at bats (33%) and an OBP well under .300. I'm sorry, but you simply can't have a clean up hitter hitting that poorly, vs. LHP. The opposing manager will go to the pen, for a LOOGY, every time he comes up, with men on base, in a close game, after the 6TH inning.

 

 

Robin hasn't been batting LaRoche cleanup against LH starters though......

[Lillian]

To the last few replies:

Hey, just because I was wrong in suggesting someone else, does not invalidate my point. My ability to identify the right guy has nothing to do with this issue.

I'm not the GM.

 

I'm glad that Robin is batting La Roche further down, vs. left handed starters. However, vs right handed starters, the same dilemma will occur late in games.

[Dick Allen]

To the last few replies:

Hey, just because I was wrong in suggesting someone else, does not invalidate my point. My ability to identify the right guy has nothing to do with this issue.

I'm not the GM.

 

I'm glad that Robin is batting La Roche further down, vs. left handed starters. However, vs right handed starters, the same dilemma will occur late in games.

I don't understand the logic. You are going from extreme to extreme and now think you shouldn't bat a guy clean up because he may not be able to hit a loogy that comes in during the 7th or 8th inning very well? There are relievers on every team that give most hitters trouble. You couldn't construct a line up based on 8th or 9th inning match ups.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[The Ginger Kid]

I don't think you were wrong about this team. I just think it's taking them a bit of time to get their s*** together. But once they do I think we can all expect good things. This does not mean the Royals and Tigers are not going to be very tough to beat, but they both have flaws just like the Sox. Each has had their hot streak. Soon we'll have ours.

[Eminor3rd]

To the last few replies:

Hey, just because I was wrong in suggesting someone else, does not invalidate my point. My ability to identify the right guy has nothing to do with this issue.

I'm not the GM.

 

I'm glad that Robin is batting La Roche further down, vs. left handed starters. However, vs right handed starters, the same dilemma will occur late in games.

 

It's just that practically everyone has noticeable platoon splits, so you diversify so that a team has to wreck the bullpen to exploit it. There was no way for us to get an elite hitter to plug in there, but we got LaRoche and it's still a major upgrade overall.

 

We'd all love to have the hitter you're imagining, but he just isn't available to us. And missing him isn't our biggest issue. If none of our guys hit like they're supposed to, we're going to lose no matter what. We just gotta ride this thing out.

[ptatc]

No, my point in other posts, over the last couple of years, has consistently been that we needed a middle of the order left handed bat, to break up all of the right handed hitters. The Sox haven't had a good one, since Thome. Apparently, the front office felt the same way. Rick Hahn articulated that view, on multiple occasions. I'm just disappointed that they weren't able to sign someone who was also respectable vs. left handed pitching.

So what your're saying is that you would prefer the Sox have a border line HOF player who hit 600 career HRs in the lineup as opposed to Dunn or LaRoche.

 

I'm OK with that. Is there one out there who is willing to play for the Sox? There aren't many LH hitters who can do what you're asking that their current team is allowing to leave. It's because they are rare.

[Lillian]

It's just that practically everyone has noticeable platoon splits, so you diversify so that a team has to wreck the bullpen to exploit it. There was no way for us to get an elite hitter to plug in there, but we got LaRoche and it's still a major upgrade overall.

 

We'd all love to have the hitter you're imagining, but he just isn't available to us. And missing him isn't our biggest issue. If none of our guys hit like they're supposed to, we're going to lose no matter what. We just gotta ride this thing out.

 

Thanks for reassuring me. I'm confident that most of the guys will hit like they usually do. If you're right, in your assertion that having an inept hitter vs. LHP at cleanup isn't that big of a problem, then we should be fine. I do hope that you're right, but can you understand why it's a concern?

[Dick Allen]

As for Thome, posters used to complain back in the day when Ozzie started him vs. LHP.

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

Thanks for reassuring me. I'm confident that most of the guys will hit like they usually do. If you're right, in your assertion that having an inept hitter vs. LHP at cleanup isn't that big of a problem, then we should be fine. I do hope that you're right, but can you understand why it's a concern?

 

LaRoche has a career 88 wRC+ against LHP. That is by no means good, but it's also very much not a disaster, and very much not that far off from what other guys have against the platoon split, and fortunately for us, there are vastly fewer lefties than righties.

 

I am not suggesting that having someone inept is isn't a problem, but the precedent LaRoche has set isn't quite that bad, and certainly, IMO, not bad enough to drag the rest of the team down ASSUMING that team is playing like it's capable. Like Eaton, Garcia, Ramirez, Gillaspie, and Cabrera can't keep sucking, or it'll be a moot point. The good news is that we don't have any reason to believe that they WILL continue sucking.

[fathom]

LaRoche has a career 88 wRC+ against LHP. That is by no means good, but it's also very much not a disaster, and very much not that far off from what other guys have against the platoon split, and fortunately for us, there are vastly fewer lefties than righties.

 

Out of curiosity, what is his wRC+ against LHP the last 3 years?

[Whisox05]

Its everyone in the lineup thats causing the offense not to be good. Stat on jose. He's had 31 runners on base when he's come to the plate. He has 9 rbi's but he also has 4 homers so take away the 4 rbis he's driven himself in and he's only driven in 5 runners of the 31 that's been on base in front of him. That's 16% of runners he's driving in.