Attendance 2015

[Thad Bosley]

As good as it can given the crap on the field.

I meant for the 115 years we've been here.

[ewokpelts]

I meant for the 115 years we've been here.

The top ten attendance year for the sox are at 333 w 35th st. They only drew 2 million or more fans twice at the old park.

[Thad Bosley]

The top ten attendance year for the sox are at 333 w 35th st. They only drew 2 million or more fans twice at the old park.

Stop. Just stop. Even remotely suggesting this location is ideal is beyond silly. That dog won't hunt. Having ideal "logistics", as you correctly point out, and a desirable location are two very different things. Our routine abysmal attendance with all of those ideal logistics in place bears that out.

[ewokpelts]

Stop. Just stop. Even remotely suggesting this location is ideal is beyond silly. That dog won't hunt. Having ideal "logistics", as you correctly point out, and a desirable location are two very different things. Our routine abysmal attendance with all of those ideal logistics in place bears that out.

There is a reason Jim Thompson made the deal with Harold Washington that cemented this location as the sox home.

 

Other "sexier" locations had major problems. And a lot had to do with the Bears flat out refusing to get a stadium with the sox.

 

Soldier field has probably the nicest location, but is a war zone on game days traffic wise.

 

the south loop has major access problems TODAY, let alone with a ballpark on Clark st.

[Thad Bosley]

There is a reason Jim Thompson made the deal with Harold Washington that cemented this location as the sox home.

 

Other "sexier" locations had major problems. And a lot had to do with the Bears flat out refusing to get a stadium with the sox.

 

Soldier field has probably the nicest location, but is a war zone on game days traffic wise.

 

the south loop has major access problems TODAY, let alone with a ballpark on Clark st.

It's still not a desirable location, and the test for that is how well the Sox draw in seasons when they don't win. Sadly, the Sox have put their fans to that test way too many times throughout the years, as the paltry 5 playoff appearances in the last 55 years would attest. So lo those many years when the Sox weren't good enough to get into the playoffs, and the myriad dismal attendance years to go with that, tells you loudly and clearly there is nothing about that location, absolutely nothing, outside a winning product on the field, that interests people. Period.

[ewokpelts]

It's still not a desirable location, and the test for that is how well the Sox draw in seasons when they don't win. Sadly, the Sox have put their fans to that test way too many times throughout the years, as the paltry 5 playoff appearances in the last 55 years would attest. So lo those many years when the Sox weren't good enough to get into the playoffs, and the myriad dismal attendance years to go with that, tells you loudly and clearly there is nothing about that location, absolutely nothing, outside a winning product on the field, that interests people. Period.

The vast majority of fans go in for the fame, and then leave after the game. Does the neighborhood really matter?

 

Because it's by a super highway with 4-8 lanes each direction, I will be home in less than 30 minutes. And if I was taking the cta or metra, not much longer.

 

I don't see how Addison or the south loop make a difference.

 

[Thad Bosley]

The vast majority of fans go in for the fame, and then leave after the game. Does the neighborhood really matter?

 

Because it's by a super highway with 4-8 lanes each direction, I will be home in less than 30 minutes. And if I was taking the cta or metra, not much longer.

 

I don't see how Addison or the south loop make a difference.

Maybe some day when we have a new owner, a new management team, a different philosophy and approach on how to run this organization leading to better on-the-field results, an invigorated fan base and much better attendance, these logistical advantages will be optimally leveraged. Until the aforementioned happens, however, expect more of the same that we've seen over the past 35 years.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Thad Bosley

[jasonxctf]

I don't see how Addison or the south loop make a difference.

 

If you don't live in the city limits or nw Indiana it makes a huge difference.

 

I can just speak of my personal experience but getting to us cellular is by far the hardest stadium for me to get to.

 

[jasonxctf]

It's still not a desirable location, and the test for that is how well the Sox draw in seasons when they don't win. Sadly, the Sox have put their fans to that test way too many times throughout the years, as the paltry 5 playoff appearances in the last 55 years would attest. So lo those many years when the Sox weren't good enough to get into the playoffs, and the myriad dismal attendance years to go with that, tells you loudly and clearly there is nothing about that location, absolutely nothing, outside a winning product on the field, that interests people. Period.

 

perfectly written. You are exactly right.

[ewokpelts]

If you don't live in the city limits or nw Indiana it makes a huge difference.

 

I can just speak of my personal experience but getting to us cellular is by far the hardest stadium for me to get to.

The south burbs take 57 and the Ryan to games. It's relatively smooth travel. I know because I am off 57.

[Dick Allen]

U.S. Cellular field cost 168 million for a 45k seat stadium.

 

And required no additional infrastructure improvements. Remember, the Dan Ryan, red line, green line, and parking lots were already built.

 

Oh, and Jim Thompson signed a deal with Harold Washington that ensured the sox stadium stayed on 35th and shields

The Red Line, Green Line, and Orange Line are pretty convenient to Roosevelt and the river. And your snarky billion dollar comment to someone else seems to be refuted by another article as the city wants someone to build on the land. I doubt any would risk an extra billion to build a development.

 

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/201...h-loop-property

 

Whether you want to believe it or not, the perception is USCF is not in a desirable location. Perception trumps reality. Closer to downtown could have made a huge difference. The after work crowd on weekday nights would have been larger.

[WBWSF]

Dick Allen: I still can't believe to this day that JR had the opportunity to have a stadium built in the South Loop and instead wanted to go to Dupage County. They would have drawn alot more people in the South Loop as opposed to their present location OR Dupage County. It has to be the biggest mistake in the history of the franchise. I will shed no tears when JR no longer owns the team. The bad thing is the next owner will have the same problem with the Cells location.

Edited July 23, 2015 by WBWSF

[Dick Allen]

Dick Allen: I still can't believe to this day that JR had the opportunity to have a stadium built in the South Loop and instead wanted to go to Dupage County. They would have drawn alot more people in the South Loop as opposed to their present location OR Dupage County. It has to be the biggest mistake in the history of the franchise. I will shed no tears when JR no longer owns the team. The bad thing is the next owner will have the same problem with the Cells location.

Especially considering JR made his money in Real Estate, although I think the reality of it was his hands were tied. If he wanted the state to build him a stadium, he was going to have to make a lot of concessions. I don't think building it where they did was his ideal answer.Closer to downtown, you wouldn't need all the parking lots. People could have taken trains. But that was almost 30 years ago, and the South Loop was pretty much a dump back then. JR made out fine with his lease, and the team stayed. I live in the city and take the Red Line to games, so it's current location is fine for me, and there is a point that it is more accessible than Wrigley Field, Soldier Field, the United Center, for many. As for the neighborhood, it is what it is. The White Sox can't make it a party area, and the residents understandably don't want it to become one.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Dick Allen

[LDF]

Especially considering JR made his money in Real Estate, although I think the reality of it was his hands were tied. If he wanted the state to build him a stadium, he was going to have to make a lot of concessions. Closer to downtown, you wouldn't need all the parking lots. People could have taken trains. But that was almost 30 years ago, and the South Loop was pretty much a dump back then. JR made out fine with his lease, and the team stayed. I live in the city and take the Red Line to games, so it's current location is fine for me, and there is a point that it is more accessible than Wrigley Field, Soldier Field, the United Center, for many. As for the neighborhood, it is what it is. The White Sox can't make it a party area, and the residents understandably don't want it to become one.

 

many thanks...

 

furthermore, and i am basing this on his dealings with the nhl on the Phx team, the owners wanted the state to build it.... to front the money and the sox to recoup the profits. his objection on the the org plans on the train station area was the best. instead he wanted the Addison sub. as i said, the best area was taken off the plate. they, the owners, just overestimated or over played his hand.

 

now where the park is, the residents will not or does not want the night life. where the park is, it has no appeal what so ever. no reason to really make it an event to attend a game. it is a sad comment. being a season ticket holder for close to 10, it was a problem to get motivated to attend a game and then drive back into the sub..... maybe the fans want to make it a event.... an enjoyable night of doing an assortment of things.

 

if anyone wants to know how the sox owners screwed up with the nhl, google it and see how much he screwed up.

[ewokpelts]

The Red Line, Green Line, and Orange Line are pretty convenient to Roosevelt and the river. And your snarky billion dollar comment to someone else seems to be refuted by another article as the city wants someone to build on the land. I doubt any would risk an extra billion to build a development.

 

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/201...h-loop-property

 

Whether you want to believe it or not, the perception is USCF is not in a desirable location. Perception trumps reality. Closer to downtown could have made a huge difference. The after work crowd on weekday nights would have been larger.

 

Of course the city wants the land developed. It'll generate tax revenue. Something an ISFA-financed stadium won't do.

 

But the larger point remains. If the city balks at an intersection project at 300 million(and one that WILL save lives. Google Western and Pershing accidents), I doubt it can swing a major construction project to move several railways and create access points for a stadium that will make the city and state little to no direct revenue(seeing as most teams pocket parking and ticket money).

[ewokpelts]

many thanks...

 

furthermore, and i am basing this on his dealings with the nhl on the Phx team, the owners wanted the state to build it.... to front the money and the sox to recoup the profits. his objection on the the org plans on the train station area was the best. instead he wanted the Addison sub. as i said, the best area was taken off the plate. they, the owners, just overestimated or over played his hand.

 

now where the park is, the residents will not or does not want the night life. where the park is, it has no appeal what so ever. no reason to really make it an event to attend a game. it is a sad comment. being a season ticket holder for close to 10, it was a problem to get motivated to attend a game and then drive back into the sub..... maybe the fans want to make it a event.... an enjoyable night of doing an assortment of things.

 

if anyone wants to know how the sox owners screwed up with the nhl, google it and see how much he screwed up.

Jerry didn't screw up with the nhl. He opted to NOT BUY THE COYOTES. He was one of many prospective buyers that looked at the financials and said "no thanks". And seeing how messed up it ended up(the coyotes are being evicted), he made the right call.

[Dick Allen]

Of course the city wants the land developed. It'll generate tax revenue. Something an ISFA-financed stadium won't do.

 

But the larger point remains. If the city balks at an intersection project at 300 million(and one that WILL save lives. Google Western and Pershing accidents), I doubt it can swing a major construction project to move several railways and create access points for a stadium that will make the city and state little to no direct revenue(seeing as most teams pocket parking and ticket money).

It certainly was a consideration 30 years ago. And it would have been a state project.

[ewokpelts]

Dick Allen: I still can't believe to this day that JR had the opportunity to have a stadium built in the South Loop and instead wanted to go to Dupage County. They would have drawn alot more people in the South Loop as opposed to their present location OR Dupage County. It has to be the biggest mistake in the history of the franchise. I will shed no tears when JR no longer owns the team. The bad thing is the next owner will have the same problem with the Cells location.

Harold Washington made a deal with Jim Thompson in 1987 that if the state were to finance a stadium, it HAD TO BE at 35th and shields. Jerry couldn't go anywhere but Florida at that point.

 

 

And the south loop is not as attractive as you think. A site at Clark and Roosevelt would be 2 blocks from the red line(and the orange line was still years away), no access for the green line, and 5 blocks from the Dan Ryan. And traffic on that stretch of Roosevelt is murder at 8pm in November, never mind after getting 12,000 cars in the area.

 

Oh, and that target that people keep talking about wasn't built until 2004. There was zero development on Roosevelt between state and canal for almost 20 years after the sox stopped looking at the south loop. And of course, the bears wanted NOTHING to do with the sox in the south loop, near west side, or at 35th and shields.

[ewokpelts]

It certainly was a consideration 30 years ago. And it would have been a state project.

But the mayor was against it. Hence the deal he brokered with the governor. The city had a much smaller infrastructure cost to bear at 35th st.

[ewokpelts]

The Red Line, Green Line, and Orange Line are pretty convenient to Roosevelt and the river. And your snarky billion dollar comment to someone else seems to be refuted by another article as the city wants someone to build on the land. I doubt any would risk an extra billion to build a development.

 

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/201...h-loop-property

 

Whether you want to believe it or not, the perception is USCF is not in a desirable location. Perception trumps reality. Closer to downtown could have made a huge difference. The after work crowd on weekday nights would have been larger.

I just read the article. Rahm wants a NEARLY BANKRUPT city to buy that land! That is too funny. Makes the sox stadium deal look like sunday poker with the ladies.

 

[LDF]

Jerry didn't screw up with the nhl. He opted to NOT BUY THE COYOTES. He was one of many prospective buyers that looked at the financials and said "no thanks". And seeing how messed up it ended up(the coyotes are being evicted), he made the right call.

 

he low balled the final offer and demanded or requested some really creative financing, when, who ever was neg for the team said no, then and only then did the sox group said no thanks.

 

one of the clause the sox owners wanted was the ability to move the team.

 

he was the financing done by the city and them move them to another city??? the city / st would incur most of the cost while the sox group would pay 70-80 mil....

 

fyi

the final of the nhl in phx was 225 mil..... a far cry from what the sox wanted to pay.

[LDF]

Harold Washington made a deal with Jim Thompson in 1987 that if the state were to finance a stadium, it HAD TO BE at 35th and shields. Jerry couldn't go anywhere but Florida at that point.

 

 

And the south loop is not as attractive as you think. A site at Clark and Roosevelt would be 2 blocks from the red line(and the orange line was still years away), no access for the green line, and 5 blocks from the Dan Ryan. And traffic on that stretch of Roosevelt is murder at 8pm in November, never mind after getting 12,000 cars in the area.

 

Oh, and that target that people keep talking about wasn't built until 2004. There was zero development on Roosevelt between state and canal for almost 20 years after the sox stopped looking at the south loop. And of course, the bears wanted NOTHING to do with the sox in the south loop, near west side, or at 35th and shields.

 

there was, i believe a 3rd site..... between central and laramine south of 290 the old sunbeam and factory there. that was discussed..... that was still in the chi geographical area and washington and the gov ok'd it, but the sox threaten to move to fla.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/...e=munson/100506

Edited July 23, 2015 by LDF

[ewokpelts]

The last 4 home games have been better than 30k. The stubhub prices for Tuesday were insane, and they were sold out of the corner sections, a feat not often accomplished despite the $7/$20 price tag.

 

 

Something I noticed before is that people are trained to hit stubhub first. The July 6 sale vs beuhrle game had plenty of upper level tickets under $20 at the box office, yet those same seats were SELLING at $25 and up all day long on stubhub.

 

It's an mlb problem, but with the sox having trouble building advance sales, it makes the situation worse.

[ewokpelts]

he low balled the final offer and demanded or requested some really creative financing, when, who ever was neg for the team said no, then and only then did the sox group said no thanks.

 

one of the clause the sox owners wanted was the ability to move the team.

 

he was the financing done by the city and them move them to another city??? the city / st would incur most of the cost while the sox group would pay 70-80 mil....

 

fyi

the final of the nhl in phx was 225 mil..... a far cry from what the sox wanted to pay.

there was no "sox group". It was jerry and local investors. And the coyotes were in bankruptcy, and eventually bought by the league. It was a quagmire for any group to come in

[ewokpelts]

there was, i believe a 3rd site..... between central and laramine south of 290 the old sunbeam and factory there. that was discussed..... that was still in the chi geographical area and washington and the gov ok'd it, but the sox threaten to move to fla.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/...e=munson/100506

The west side? I just s*** myself laughing