Attendance 2015

[LDF]

I'LL say it again. Bad teams + bad stadium location + bad stadium upper deck= BAD ATTENDANCE. Considering everything I'm convinced that if the White Sox draw 2 million people a year, they've done well. Anything above 2 million is a bonus.

 

i am with you on the bad location.

 

and you are right about the 2 million. the sox will always be the 2nd fiddle in baseball in chicago, esp in the location they are in. there is no appeal factor there.

 

so win WS's and that can help the attendance.

 

i don't b**** b/c i like to b****, i don't rag on the owners b/c i hate them. well i do when they try to insult my intelligence.

[caulfield12]

i am with you on the bad location.

 

and you are right about the 2 million. the sox will always be the 2nd fiddle in baseball in chicago, esp in the location they are in. there is no appeal factor there.

 

so win WS's and that can help the attendance.

 

i don't b**** b/c i like to b****, i don't rag on the owners b/c i hate them. well i do when they try to insult my intelligence.

 

 

Justt getting to the playoffs in 2 of 3 seasons feels like a minor miracle. Not expecting a World Series win anytime soon.

[LDF]

Justt getting to the playoffs in 2 of 3 seasons feels like a minor miracle. Not expecting a World Series win anytime soon.

 

yeah, you are prob right, i can't help it, i am a greedy bastard!!!

 

give me the WS rings or give me death

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'LL say it again. Bad teams + bad stadium location + bad stadium upper deck= BAD ATTENDANCE. Considering everything I'm convinced that if the White Sox draw 2 million people a year, they've done well. Anything above 2 million is a bonus.

 

 

The location is fine. The Upper Deck is also fine. Sox fans are a fickle b****. That's the problem. We are excuse makers. Just the way it is.

[Iwritecode]

that will leave only one team in the Central who hasn't made consecutive playoff appearances EVER - US!!

 

FIFY.

 

I know what you were trying to say with the 1995/beginning of the Central Division, but the Sox have never had back to back playoff appearances no matter which division they were in.

[Iwritecode]

"Winning team" doesn't mean just counting the number of wins that our many second place finishes have garnered for us. Winning team means one that makes the playoffs. We did that only once in the '90s, and just twice in the last 15 years under the Reinsdorf/Wiliams/Hahn management team.

 

Agreed.

 

SS2K, you are starting to sound like Coop. Sox fans don't just want to see a team that's consistently over .500 every year. We want a playoff team. There's a huge difference.

 

I'm with Thad that we would see attendance shoot up if they made the playoffs 2, 3, 4 years in a row. Sadly we've never been able to test this theory.

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

I'LL say it again. Bad teams + bad stadium location + bad stadium upper deck= BAD ATTENDANCE. Considering everything I'm convinced that if the White Sox draw 2 million people a year, they've done well. Anything above 2 million is a bonus.

 

Why is the lower bowl consistently half empty if the upper deck is the problem?

[southsider2k5]

Agreed.

 

SS2K, you are starting to sound like Coop. Sox fans don't just want to see a team that's consistently over .500 every year. We want a playoff team. There's a huge difference.

 

I'm with Thad that we would see attendance shoot up if they made the playoffs 2, 3, 4 years in a row. Sadly we've never been able to test this theory.

 

I am just not into the having it both ways. If it is OK for Sox fans to quit on their team if they aren't a playoff team for multiple seasons in a row (or the color of the seats, the angle of the upper deck, the stadium not having buildings in the background, parking being too expensive, or whatever the excuse of the day is) , then Sox fans should understand what that means for the financial situation of the franchise and accept the consequences.

[caulfield12]

What team (besides the Cubs, and they made the playoffs more often than the White Sox over the last 30 years) has had a consistently loyal fanbase over roughly a decade of mostly being a bit above average but rarely making a playoff run?

 

The Indians, Orioles, Blue Jays, Mariners and Rockies all were among the attendance leaders roughly 15-20 years ago. Same with the DBacks and Astros for that matter.

 

Their fanbases aren't much different than us. They just want to win too.

 

Indians fans used to pack Jacobs Field year after year....of course, they had an extended run of playoff teams. But blowing up your franchise multiple times (2002-2003 and 2008) will demoralize even the most loyal fans. Does it help Dolan now to blame them? You reap what you sew.

Edited May 13, 2015 by caulfield12

[shysocks]

What team (besides the Cubs, and they made the playoffs more often than the White Sox over the last 30 years) has had a consistently loyal fanbase over roughly a decade of mostly being a bit above average but rarely making a playoff run?

 

The Indians, Orioles, Blue Jays, Mariners and Rockies all were among the attendance leaders roughly 15-20 years ago. Same with the DBacks and Astros for that matter.

 

Their fanbases aren't much different than us. They just want to win too.

Good post.

 

The Cubs are an exception to every rule as tourists will always help fill up Wrigley, and because it's there slurping up market share, the Sox can never really be considered a big-market team. It sounds like an excuse, but it's not, it's just a fact. I attend as many games as I can so I don't feel compelled to make excuses for other people anyway. A consistent winner would do a lot to push casual Sox fans to go to games.

[Dick Allen]

Good post.

 

The Cubs are an exception to every rule as tourists will always help fill up Wrigley, and because it's there slurping up market share, the Sox can never really be considered a big-market team. It sounds like an excuse, but it's not, it's just a fact. I attend as many games as I can so I don't feel compelled to make excuses for other people anyway. A consistent winner would do a lot to push casual Sox fans to go to games.

They made the playoffs in 2008, yet their attendance was lower than 2007 when they had the worst record in baseball for most of the season. And it was lower in 2009, then lower in 2010, then lower in 2011, then lower in 2012 when they led the division most of the season. They have lowered prices to where you can pay $20, $15 on Sunday to see Chris Sale pitch and they give you a t-shirt. 50 people a game take advantage of that. If you need 3 or 4 playoff appearances in a row to attend games, you are a fair weathered fan. As was stated previously, White Sox fans are excuse makers. It will always be something.

[caulfield12]

A Cubs survey last year found that 37 percent of fans (13,991 out of 37,814 per game in 2010) come from outside of the state, and 56 percent of those fans come solely to see a game. That includes the commuters from northwest Indiana, of course, but we're still talking about thousands of fans who come to tell their friends back in Polk County they saw Wrigley Field.

 

If that 37 percent is valid, it basically means that just as many Illinoisans go to White Sox games as Cubs games. A White Sox official told me that the club's latest poll showed 13 percent of fans (3,522 out of 27,091 per game) said they were from Indiana or "other."

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/colu...&id=6278204

Basically, at the start of the 2011 season...the Cubs and White Sox were almost dead even in terms of "local" fans. This despite ticket prices and parking being among the 5-7 most expensive in MLB.

 

Then we went through a period of dynamic pricing (aka gouging) only to finally realize the true depth of the problem entering the 2013 season.

 

Sox fans aren't fickle. They're just fed up with mediocrity and insults. They supported the team well for two more non-playoff seasons before 2007 wiped out a lot of their enthusiasm.

Edited May 13, 2015 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

A Cubs survey last year found that 37 percent of fans (13,991 out of 37,814 per game in 2010) come from outside of the state, and 56 percent of those fans come solely to see a game. That includes the commuters from northwest Indiana, of course, but we're still talking about thousands of fans who come to tell their friends back in Polk County they saw Wrigley Field.

 

If that 37 percent is valid, it basically means that just as many Illinoisans go to White Sox games as Cubs games. A White Sox official told me that the club's latest poll showed 13 percent of fans (3,522 out of 27,091 per game) said they were from Indiana or "other."

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/colu...&id=6278204

Basically, at the start of the 2011 season...the Cubs and White Sox were almost dead even in terms of "local" fans. This despite ticket prices and parking being among the 5-7 most expensive in MLB.

 

Then we went through a period of dynamic pricing (aka gouging) only to finally realize the depth of the problem entering the 2013 season.

 

Sox fans aren't fickle. They're just fed up with mediocrity and insults.

 

White Sox tickets are by far the cheapest tickets in town. Cubs/Bulls/Bears/Blackhawks are all WAY more expensive. Hawks fans spend $100 for SRO against a no name team. White Sox fans can get into the upper Deck for $5 on a Sunday.

 

[caulfield12]

And besides the unique/historic nature of Wrigley Field, the Sox brought on a lot of problems themselves with SportsVision...ceding Harry Caray, the respective radio networks, Budweiser, WGN, Sammy Sosa....always beaten in the marketing battle since the days of Rob Gallas.

 

And Reinsdorf always had too much pride to let Mike Veeck help him.

[southsider2k5]

And besides the unique/historic nature of Wrigley Field, the Sox brought on a lot of problems themselves with SportsVision...ceding Harry Caray, the respective radio networks, Budweiser, WGN, Sammy Sosa....always beaten in the marketing battle since the days of Rob Gallas.

 

And Reinsdorf always had too much pride to let Mike Veeck help him.

 

So the next excuse is that Sox fans are holding grudges from 20 to 40 years ago.

[shysocks]

They made the playoffs in 2008, yet their attendance was lower than 2007 when they had the worst record in baseball for most of the season. And it was lower in 2009, then lower in 2010, then lower in 2011, then lower in 2012 when they led the division most of the season. They have lowered prices to where you can pay $20, $15 on Sunday to see Chris Sale pitch and they give you a t-shirt. 50 people a game take advantage of that. If you need 3 or 4 playoff appearances in a row to attend games, you are a fair weathered fan. As was stated previously, White Sox fans are excuse makers. It will always be something.

None of that represents a consistent winner. If the Sox were the Tigers and had won the division four years in a row, do you really believe the attendance would be lower in 2015 than in 2010? My judgment is categorically that it would be higher, probably significantly higher.

 

To the bolded, I think you'll find the same constitution for most fanbases in sports. What part of my post was untrue or an excuse?

[Eminor3rd]

They made the playoffs in 2008, yet their attendance was lower than 2007 when they had the worst record in baseball for most of the season. And it was lower in 2009, then lower in 2010, then lower in 2011, then lower in 2012 when they led the division most of the season. They have lowered prices to where you can pay $20, $15 on Sunday to see Chris Sale pitch and they give you a t-shirt. 50 people a game take advantage of that. If you need 3 or 4 playoff appearances in a row to attend games, you are a fair weathered fan. As was stated previously, White Sox fans are excuse makers. It will always be something.

 

And yet the team continues to grow its revenues every year, just like every other baseball team, because no matter how many times we have this conversation, everyone keeps pretending like it's 1980 and the internet and regional sports cable networks don't exist.

 

 

 

Everyone is just going to HAVE to accept the fact that going to the game is no longer the most attractive option for following a baseball team. The ballpark experience is unique and valuable, but if you're a "die-hard" fan and want to follow the action, there's a better and cheaper option in your living room. Fortunately, the teams ARE being compensated handsomely for these channels, too.

[caulfield12]

White Sox tickets are by far the cheapest tickets in town. Cubs/Bulls/Bears/Blackhawks are all WAY more expensive. Hawks fans spend $100 for SRO against a no name team. White Sox fans can get into the upper Deck for $5 on a Sunday.

 

 

That was FAR from true 3-4 seasons ago.

 

They finally lowered prices from higher levels when it was already too late...the team had missed the playoffs for too long and the 2011 disaster happened.

 

Fans actually perceive cheap tickets to be a lesser value than much higher prices for an exciting/interesting/entertaining product.

 

[Dick Allen]

None of that represents a consistent winner. If the Sox were the Tigers and had won the division four years in a row, do you really believe the attendance would be lower in 2015 than in 2010? My judgment is categorically that it would be higher, probably significantly higher.

 

To the bolded, I think you'll find the same constitution for most fanbases in sports. What part of my post was untrue or an excuse?

The Twins have averaged 95.5 losses the last 4 years, their attendance has blown the White Sox away. Of course in 2005, when the team was never not in first place and won the WS, a 3 game home series vs. KC in September drew a total of 50k.

[shysocks]

White Sox tickets are by far the cheapest tickets in town. Cubs/Bulls/Bears/Blackhawks are all WAY more expensive. Hawks fans spend $100 for SRO against a no name team. White Sox fans can get into the upper Deck for $5 on a Sunday.

The Blackhawks are essentially a dynasty at this point and their attendance mirrors what Sox figures would look like if they had two trophies in five years and playoff berths every year surrounding. That's all I'm saying and you know it's true.

[shysocks]

The Twins have averaged 95.5 losses the last 4 years, their attendance has blown the White Sox away. Of course in 2005, when the team was never not in first place and won the WS, a 3 game home series vs. KC in September drew a total of 50k.

If the Sox were the Tigers and had won the division four years in a row, do you really believe the attendance would be lower in 2015 than in 2010? I'm just gonna keep asking until you answer.

[Dick Allen]

 

 

That was FAR from true 3-4 seasons ago.

 

They finally lowered prices from higher levels when it was already too late...the team had missed the playoffs for too long and the 2011 disaster happened.

 

Fans actually perceive cheap tickets to be a lesser value than much higher prices for an exciting/interesting/entertaining product.

So White Sox fans would prefer higher priced tickets?

[caulfield12]

And yet the team continues to grow its revenues every year, just like every other baseball team, because no matter how many times we have this conversation, everyone keeps pretending like it's 1980 and the internet and regional sports cable networks don't exist.

 

 

 

Everyone is just going to HAVE to accept the fact that going to the game is no longer the most attractive option for following a baseball team. The ballpark experience is unique and valuable, but if you're a "die-hard" fan and want to follow the action, there's a better and cheaper option in your living room. Fortunately, the teams ARE being compensated handsomely for these channels, too.

 

 

Amen.

 

And hence the cost/benefit choice this offseason to attempt to push the window up a season.

 

Plus, watching the Cubs completely dominate Chicago baseball media/public discussion probably didnt sit too well...hence the acquisition of Samardzija.

Edited May 13, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

If the Sox were the Tigers and had won the division four years in a row, do you really believe the attendance would be lower in 2015 than in 2010? I'm just gonna keep asking until you answer.

If they didn't win the WS again, yes, without a doubt. But if it takes winning the division 4 years in a row for people to attend games, your fan base sucks.

[shysocks]

If they didn't win the WS again, yes, without a doubt.

That's laughable, and if you truly think that 4 division titles would have no effect on attendance, you aren't dealing in reality.