Jose Abreu Speaks His Mind on Sox' Poor Play -- a 1st?

[southsider2k5]

Don Cooper's reputation has reached ridiculous levels. If Cooper told the Sox he thought Q had potential and that he was undervalued -- great. But to credit him with all of Q's success is absurd. Cooper has failed dozens of times with reclamation projects, does he take the blame for those? Of course not. He's just a coach. A good one, but a coach.

 

Name me a more impressive minor league free agent transformation than Jose Quintana.

[RockRaines]

Jose has become probably THE leader of the team. Which is very good.

[southsider2k5]

That's not the topic of the conversation though. Quintana isn't what he is without the Yankees' negligence.

 

If the assumption is that the White Sox staff, primarily Don Cooper, had nothing to do with Jose Quintana being able to jump from High A ball with the Yankees, to the major leagues, the Yankees wouldn't have let him walk away, and they would have had him protected at the very least. Even if they thought he had a realistic shot at being a potential #2 starter in the majors in say three years, they would have protected him. That very clearly means that they didn't see what the White Sox did. If anyone else in baseball thought he had a realistic chance of being a servicable major league pitcher in the same year, someone else would have offered him a better assignment to sign than the White Sox did. Quintana got AA, and no major league camp invite. 29 other teams had a chance to improve on that offer, with a camp invite at the very least, and a major league contract (remembering he still had options) at best. No else did, or Quintana wouldn't have signed with us.

 

The idea that the White Sox staff is due no credit for Jose Quintana is just laughable, because if he really was that major league ready before he got to the Sox, there are 29 other teams that would have killed to have a middle of the rotation, left handed, starter (#2 at best) on their staff with 6 full years of control. The White Sox were able to bring him in and make him major league ready in basically two months. They deserve (especially Don Cooper at the major league level) at of the credit here.

[caulfield12]

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/3/4/...-sox-underrated

 

Probably Quintana's success has something to do with THIS.

 

By the way, the PED's charges happened when he was with the Mets' organization...pre-Yankees.

 

In 2006, at age 17, Quintana was signed by the Mets out of Colombia, but violated the minor league baseball drug policy. He was suspended for the start of his first minor league season, and was ultimately cut by the Mets in July. The Yankees then signed Quintana, where he played for their Dominican Summer League for two seasons, and ended up playing two seasons in the Yankees minor league system making it up to High-A ball in 2011 where he went 10-2 with a 2.91 ERA.

 

 

 

http://www.pinstripealley.com/2012/9/11/33...is-just-another

 

To be wholly fair, it is also possible they saw some things to like but didn't like them enough to push another play off the 40-man roster. In retrospect, this seems a dubious excuse; the Yankees lost not a single player in the draft, and even found room to take two pitchers, acquiring Cesar Cabral through the Royals and selecting Brad Meyers from the Nationals. They even protected David Adams, a now-25-year-old second baseman who has some real pop for a middle infielder (.295/.378/.448 in the minors) but just never plays (and as long as he's stuck behind Robinson Cano, probably never will even if he figures out how to stay healthy). They also still had Greg Golson on the roster heading into the Rule 5 draft, and subsequently punted him to make room for one of the two pitchers.

 

In fact, when I have asked general manager Brian Cashman about this, he has told me there was not even much of an argument to do so...that turns out to be an utter failure of development and/or being able to self-analyze.

 

Quintana might be a similar case, at least as to the brevity of his celebrity. His fastball sits at just 90 mph. He doesn't walk many, but he doesn't strike out many either, and his groundball rate is good but hardly exceptional. The White Sox play good defense. In front of a different quality of leather, he might not look as good. Basically, this is not a guy from whom you should expect consistency, and if he loses an inch off of his fastball, Abner help him.

 

 

LOL about the White Sox playing good defense...but that was the case (actually) for most of 2012. Not so much since then.

Edited April 23, 2015 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

Jose has become probably THE leader of the team. Which is very good.

 

I agree. I think it's good when your best players are also the leaders.

[caulfield12]

Ideally, it's Jose as the obvious leader (since he's an everyday player)....Sale/Samardzija/Robertson among the pitching staff....and then Eaton, Ramirez and Geo Soto.

 

Of course, the point always missed is the best leader on most really good teams is USUALLY the catcher.

[Balta1701]

I'd love to hear your rationale here.

 

 

Don Cooper's reputation has reached ridiculous levels. If Cooper told the Sox he thought Q had potential and that he was undervalued -- great. But to credit him with all of Q's success is absurd. Cooper has failed dozens of times with reclamation projects, does he take the blame for those? Of course not. He's just a coach. A good one, but a coach.

 

 

I agree, but I want to hear Balta's counter...

That original post was made in response to DA's post that Cooper deserves the blame for what is happening to the rotation this year on his own as he's the one who runs the pitching staff.

 

The response to that is that if Cooper deserves all the blame this year, then he also deserves credit for creating a 5 WAR pitcher the last couple years, making him worth $20 million+ a season.

 

Clearly the last one is not true, but that also illustrates how the former is not true either.

[caulfield12]

CJ Wilson: Well, you hear the same thing from everybody that leaves. Kinsler didn’t leave happy. I didn’t leave happy. Napoli didn’t leave happy. So, you know, there’s a certain consistency. I think the reality also is that the window that we had from 2010-2011 was probably the best situation that a bunch of people will ever experience in their careers – just based on all the factors. Great players, the players all got along really well, the manager let us play, there wasn’t a lot of intervention during the game because we policed each other. There was a lot of accountability….everybody worked really hard, everybody had fun, but they were doing it in a respectful way, and we developed our own chemistry and camaraderie and it was a very special time in all of our careers. Www.dallasmorningnews.com

 

Back to the topic....leadership....and if Ventura's a Ron Washington type, Hahn needs to find the right players who will create this type of environment.

 

Of course, the key point is accountability. Who is policing the clubhouse with Konerko gone?

[LDF]

CJ Wilson: Well, you hear the same thing from everybody that leaves. Kinsler didn’t leave happy. I didn’t leave happy. Napoli didn’t leave happy. So, you know, there’s a certain consistency. I think the reality also is that the window that we had from 2010-2011 was probably the best situation that a bunch of people will ever experience in their careers – just based on all the factors. Great players, the players all got along really well, the manager let us play, there wasn’t a lot of intervention during the game because we policed each other. There was a lot of accountability….everybody worked really hard, everybody had fun, but they were doing it in a respectful way, and we developed our own chemistry and camaraderie and it was a very special time in all of our careers. Www.dallasmorningnews.com

 

Back to the topic....leadership....and if Ventura's a Ron Washington type, Hahn needs to find the right players who will create this type of environment.

 

Of course, the key point is accountability. Who is policing the clubhouse with Konerko gone?

 

nice point, accountability, nice word, would we, the fans ever find out that answer?? that is unless someone spills the beans.

 

that leadership is now being done on the field. that is a given. now as of last nite, several players are stepping up, whether or not for that leadership or jump plain and simple stepping up. like enuf is enuf.

 

i would like to see how the next several weeks go. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither is a leader.