**SPOILER THREAD** GAME OF THRONES ** SPOILER THREAD **

[southsider2k5]

Hard to say. They last met at Moletown. I don't know if he could reliably send a RSVP Yes raven to "encampment somewhere nearish Winterfell".

 

[interested]

[Harry Chappas]

I don't know...she was with Baelish. I kind of had the feeling she knew they were there but since she wasn't part of the war council, etc, she strategically didn't play all her hand at that moment, since Jon wasn't respecting her opinion on Ramsey.

 

Maybe Sansa wanted Jon killed.....

[StrangeSox]

Jon being crushed under a mass of bodies started to induce some real-life anxiety in me.

 

Liked everything up until the very end. Feeding Bolton to the dogs seems uncharastically sadistic for Sansa and Jon and decidedly un-Stark-like. Ned was always about doing your own dirty work.

 

Thought the Battle of the Bastards was going to be a big nod to Hannibal at Cannae, not sure that would have been any more "obvious" than the route they went (Jon falling for a trap, miracle last-second army saves Jon's ass again!)

Edited June 22, 2016 by StrangeSox

[Kyyle23]

I agree that it was un-stark-like, but at the same time with everything he did to her and her family I will excuse her for letting the sadistic side of her come out.

 

And yea, Jon being buried under all the people made me and my wife cringe too. Very claustrophobic

[Jenksismyhero]

Jon being crushed under a mass of bodies started to induce some real-life anxiety in me.

Liked everything up until the very end. Feeding Bolton to the dogs seems uncharastically sadistic for Sansa and Jon and decidedly un-Stark-like. Ned was always about doing your own dirty work.

 

Thought the Battle of the Bastards was going to be a big nod to Hannibal at Cannae, not sure that would have been any more "obvious" than the route they went (Jon falling for a trap, miracle last-second army saves Jon's ass again!)

 

I wondered the same thing, but thought maybe that was on purpose. Sansa is the "new" generation of Starks. She's not making the same honor/pride mistakes that her father, brother and step-brother have made (or keep making, in the case of Jon).

 

More likely though it was for the sake of audience satisfaction, since Ramsay really wasn't that much of a villain in the books.

[Kyyle23]

I wondered the same thing, but thought maybe that was on purpose. Sansa is the "new" generation of Starks. She's not making the same honor/pride mistakes that her father, brother and step-brother have made (or keep making, in the case of Jon).

 

More likely though it was for the sake of audience satisfaction, since Ramsay really wasn't that much of a villain in the books.

 

Very good point as well. And think about what Sansa has seen and been through since she left Kings Landing, her dad was beheaded in front of her by her husband, her mom and brother murdered at the Red Wedding, she has been given to Ramsay as some sort of prize and he did whatever he did to her. She probably has zero sympathetic bones left in her body.

[southsider2k5]

Very good point as well. And think about what Sansa has seen and been through since she left Kings Landing, her dad was beheaded in front of her by her husband, her mom and brother murdered at the Red Wedding, she has been given to Ramsay as some sort of prize and he did whatever he did to her. She probably has zero sympathetic bones left in her body.

 

Yeah, her being pretty bitter was the least surprising part of all of that, but still felt pretty damned good for her after all she has been through.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I wondered the same thing, but thought maybe that was on purpose. Sansa is the "new" generation of Starks. She's not making the same honor/pride mistakes that her father, brother and step-brother have made (or keep making, in the case of Jon).

 

More likely though it was for the sake of audience satisfaction, since Ramsay really wasn't that much of a villain in the books.

 

 

???

 

Yeah, he totally is.

[Jenksismyhero]

???

 

Yeah, he totally is.

 

I don't remember him being bad to the point where he had no purpose but to be as evil as possible. He obviously was awful to Theon, but that's about it. We'll see how he is in the books going forward (e.g., if Sansa is sent to him), but he was no more evil or sadistic than Joffrey. IMO the show played him way up to be a clear villain in the show.

 

edit: i mean the guy is in the Bolton family, so he's obviously sadistic. But I didn't remember him being the focal point of villainy for the books. He's a bad dude, don't get me wrong.

Edited June 22, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero

[StrangeSox]

He was sadistic to a bunch of people in the book. He didn't get as large of a percentage of time, but he was still completely awful.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I don't remember him being bad to the point where he had no purpose but to be as evil as possible. He obviously was awful to Theon, but that's about it. We'll see how he is in the books going forward (e.g., if Sansa is sent to him), but he was no more evil or sadistic than Joffrey. IMO the show played him way up to be a clear villain in the show.

 

edit: i mean the guy is in the Bolton family, so he's obviously sadistic. But I didn't remember him being the focal point of villainy for the books. He's a bad dude, don't get me wrong.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Theon, obviously

Rape/torment of Jeyne Poole

Flaying of the spearwives

Hunting games with women

He most likely poisoned his brother growing up

He was the one who killed the "Stark" boys

Lady Hornwood murder

 

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Off the top of my head:

 

Theon, obviously

Rape/torment of Jeyne Poole

Flaying of the spearwives

Hunting games with women

He most likely poisoned his brother growing up

He was the one who killed the "Stark" boys

Lady Hornwood murder

 

Right, most of those things occurring well in the past with characters we don't know. So in terms of a villain to some specific main character or house, there's really only Theon, a character "we," the audience, also hate for what he did, even if he is being redeemed over time. Ramsay is no worse than the Mountain or the Hound.

 

He is less a villain in the books IMO than Joffrey or Cersei or even Tywin.

Edited June 22, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero

[StrangeSox]

All of those events except maybe killing his brother happen during the course of the books.

[Jenksismyhero]

All of those events except maybe killing his brother happen during the course of the books.

 

Really? Well maybe my memory is all wrong. You guys know the books better than me probably.

[StrangeSox]

Really? Well maybe my memory is all wrong. You guys know the books better than me probably.

 

It doesn't necessarily all happen "on screen" but it definitely takes place during that time span.

[Nixon]

They used it up in the battle of blackwater?

Tyrion only found one cache before the battle and had more new pots ordered. Jaime killed the only people who knew where all the caches were (Aerys and the Pyromancer dude). That's why Tyrion spent half of his airtime this week describing the different locations they were rumored to be scattered across KL.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Nixon

[CrimsonWeltall]

Tyrion only found one cache before the battle and had more new pots ordered. Jaime killed the only people who knew where all the caches were (Aerys and the Pyromancer dude).

 

Wouldn't anyone at the Alchemist's guild have known where the caches were? I'm sure that one dude was carrying thousands of pots around the city by himself.

[RockRaines]

I wondered the same thing, but thought maybe that was on purpose. Sansa is the "new" generation of Starks. She's not making the same honor/pride mistakes that her father, brother and step-brother have made (or keep making, in the case of Jon).

 

More likely though it was for the sake of audience satisfaction, since Ramsay really wasn't that much of a villain in the books.

He was horrific in the books. Total scum.

 

And Sansa has been through tons of s*** at this point including seeing her father killed and being made to look at his head on the spires of the castle. She's trying to pay back as much of her pain as possible. At least thats the way I saw it. Starks played by the books and got f***ed, time to change the game plan.

[TaylorStSox]

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but there have been several references to the Mad King hiding caches of wildfire all over King's Landing. Tyrion had Varys looking for it and Cersei had Qyburn looking for it. I knew what they were talking about immediately. The Lannister arc has been pretty obvious for a long time. Cersei is going to burn down King's Landing and kill Tommen. Jaimie is going to kill Cersei and himself in his redemption arc.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but there have been several references to the Mad King hiding caches of wildfire all over King's Landing. Tyrion had Varys looking for it and Cersei had Qyburn looking for it. I knew what they were talking about immediately. The Lannister arc has been pretty obvious for a long time. Cersei is going to burn down King's Landing and kill Tommen. Jaimie is going to kill Cersei and himself in his redemption arc.

 

I sort of agree, that Jaime is the valonqar, but why would he kill himself in the process? I agree that it seems pretty obvious what Cersei/Qyburn are doing in the show right now.

 

Edit: If Tommen dies, who becomes king from a legal standpoint in the show? In the books it would be Stannis then Shireen (right?), but in the show?

Edited June 23, 2016 by ChiSox_Sonix

[Kyyle23]

I sort of agree, that Jaime is the valonqar, but why would he kill himself in the process? I agree that it seems pretty obvious what Cersei/Qyburn are doing in the show right now.

 

Edit: If Tommen dies, who becomes king from a legal standpoint in the show? In the books it would be Stannis then Shireen (right?), but in the show?

 

Would Margaery still be Queen?

[Southwest Sider]

Cersei could also go the route of revealing to everyone that Tommen is Jaime's son, not Robert Baratheons and therefore not the true King. This would effectively negate his/high Sparrows rulings.

 

Tommen could then be killed by an angry mob or flee with Cersei? This would work doubly as well for screwing over the Tyrells because now Margaery wouldn't have a claim to the throne.

 

I do believe she is resigned to the fact that Tommen will die, and as such I think it will be easier for her to take matters into her own hands. But I could easily see her trying to flee with Tommen and Qyburn with the power of Zombie Mountain.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Edit: If Tommen dies, who becomes king from a legal standpoint in the show? In the books it would be Stannis then Shireen (right?), but in the show?

 

If Tommen dies, it would be a clusterf***.

 

Stannis, Shireen, and Myrcella would normally be the next in line, but they dead. After those 3, you'd have to start climbing back up the Baratheon tree to random Baratheon schmoes. The show hasn't presented any, so that's a non-starter. The Baratheons have roots with the Targs, which would put Dany somewhere in there. But then again, her family was exiled, so that's probably some kind of DQ.

[Chicago White Sox]

I just can't see Cersai killing Tommen. Seems way out of character, let alone for the TV version to do it. I do think a lot of characters will burn, including the High Sparrow, Lancel, Kevan, Pycelle, & Septa Unella. Maybe even a Tyrell sibling.

 

I think Tommen will somehow be spared from the wildfire, only to be killed by the Sand Snakes. Feel like that's how he'll go out in the books and there was an episode earlier this season in which Jamie mentioned them to the small council. I don't think the Dorne storyline is 100% complete just yet.

[Nixon]

I don't think Cersei would kill Tommen either. It's either some collateral issue where he like runs in to save Marge or he's so despondent after losing her to the flames that he drinks Qyburn's entire inventory of Milk of the Poppy.