illinilaw08 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 20, 2015 -> 08:07 PM) Perhaps Littlefinger expected Ramsay to basically rape or degrade Sansa, believing that it will push her in a direction he wants. I'm sure he's aware of Ramsay's actions in the past and the Bolton family's current state, and because of that, I'm sure he's aware that both Ramsay and Roose know full well that they can't flay the last remaining Stark. This is a direct quote from an interview with one of the producers: “The difference between the Ramsay Snow of the books and the show is the Ramsay of the show is not a famous psycho. He’s not known everywhere as a psycho. So Littlefinger doesn’t have the intelligence on him.” I think that's the most insane part of all this. Littlefinger NOT knowing Ramsay's reputation is not fathomable in either universe. And it's that lack of knowledge that sets this entire arc in motion. The article with the quote is linked here: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/17/game-...amsay-interview Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The entire basis of Sansa's/Jenye's arc is to eventually take the Boltons out of the North. In conjunction with Stannis they are going to eliminate them at some point. I feel like the mistreatment of Sansa is going to kick off the support of the northerners left in Winterfell for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Not to mention this now allows Reek a path of redemption. Whereas before he was just a brainwashed/fearful dog, Ramsay's abuse is going to someone he grew up with and presumably loved. The mistreatment of Jenye fueled that in the books, and Sansa is the replacement for that in the show (but even more directly). Also, I don't want to be all insincere or anything, and for f***'s sake we're talking about a TV show character, but when I first read all the reviews of the episode, it was as if they had a 15 minute rape scene where Sansa was being beaten or held at knife point. In reality it was a "consummation of marriage" that was obviously unwanted and forceful, but it could have been SO much worse given what Ramsay is capable of. In my mind the reviews had it built up to this big thing and it never really was THAT bad. And I still don't get the people who don't see the "value" of that scene and how it sets up what's about to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 21, 2015 -> 09:36 AM) This is a direct quote from an interview with one of the producers: “The difference between the Ramsay Snow of the books and the show is the Ramsay of the show is not a famous psycho. He’s not known everywhere as a psycho. So Littlefinger doesn’t have the intelligence on him.” I think that's the most insane part of all this. Littlefinger NOT knowing Ramsay's reputation is not fathomable in either universe. And it's that lack of knowledge that sets this entire arc in motion. The article with the quote is linked here: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/17/game-...amsay-interview You seem like a dude that's just going to be content to nitpick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) You seem like a dude that's just going to be content to nitpick. Depends on what the definition of "is" is. Lawyers always have to ruin all the fun! Edited May 21, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 20, 2015 -> 05:20 PM) But that response doesn't answer the two biggest issues with Littlefinger's plan. He needs Sansa alive, yet he does no research re: Ramsay. If Sansa is dead, do you really think the fiercely independent North bows to Littlefinger - even if he avenges Sansa's death/routs the Boltons? Littlefinger barely has control of the Vale - and only through Robin Arryn. Again, acknowledging that the books and show are different entities on this point, why would the Lords of the Vale agree to go to war on Robin Arryn/Littlefinger's say so?* On the rape, it's a plot device that, like the Jamie-Cersei rape, halts the momentum it seems like the show was trying to build for the character. Jamie is on a redemptive arc, but then he rapes Cersei setting back any growth he's shown as a character. Sansa finally starts to gain some agency/stop becoming a victim. Half a season into that arc, she gets raped while Theon watches. I get that it's a plot device to replace Jeyne Poole and I've been dreading the scene all season. I'm saying it was poorly done and slows/halts Sansa's character growth. She's back to the damsel in distress that needs to be saved - by either Theon or Brienne. Also of note, don't get me started on how dumb the Dorne scenes were this week. After how well they portrayed Oberyn last season, the portrayal of the Sand Snakes has been comically awful. EDIT: * I acknowledge that Robin Arryn is the ruler of the Vale, but as we've seen in King's Landing, the decisions of a weak leader are not really respected. Littlefinger is an outsider in the Vale - the foundation has not been laid for him to be able to send the Vale to war. Great post. 100% agree with everything here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 And I think most of you are completely wrong about Littlefinger's feelings towards Sansa. Dude is obsessed with her as she reminds him of her mother, the only women Littlefinger ever loved. He would definitely not purposely put her in harm's way, hell he killed Lysa without a solid plan in place to protect her. The idea that he would give her up to Ramsey Bolton is beyond ridiculous. Of course the show uses the "I've never heard much about him" excuse, which goes against everything we know about Littlefinger. This is a guy who is very calculating, there is no way he wouldn't have done his research on a potential marriage partner for Sansa. I'm fine with changes from the books, but this move go against his character and is stupid IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 21, 2015 -> 05:51 PM) And I think most of you are completely wrong about Littlefinger's feelings towards Sansa. Dude is obsessed with her as she reminds him of her mother, the only women Littlefinger ever loved. He would definitely not purposely put her in harm's way, hell he killed Lysa without a solid plan in place to protect her. The idea that he would give her up to Ramsey Bolton is beyond ridiculous. Of course the show uses the "I've never heard much about him" excuse, which goes against everything we know about Littlefinger. This is a guy who is very calculating, there is no way he wouldn't have done his research on a potential marriage partner for Sansa. I'm fine with changes from the books, but this move go against his character and is stupid IMO. I don't agree with this at all, Littlefinger has had it out for EVERYONE since he lost the fight to Brandon Stark. He pretty much changed from a romantic to wanting to rule the world after that. Does he have some affection for Cat and Sansa? Sure, but it's more of him overcoming the past and another conquering victory for him than anything. Proof: (embedding is disabled on the video unfortunately) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 This the greatest musical that ever was or ever will be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 High Sparrow has effectively replaced Tywin as the top scene stealer of the show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Man, the Dorne stuff is so bad it seems beyond redemption. I've never seen this show do worse character introduction and development than with the Sand Snakes. That scene in the jail was like something out of a Starz show, not Game of Thrones. And all of the "wink" and side-eye glances in the cell, "oh here she goes again" crap. Andy greenwald made a point that the shooting of this show is so intense, they can't be at every set and basically what they shoot is what they get. I wonder if they got the Dorne stuff and were like "crap, well, we gotta make it work". I wonder if it is just poor writing, or horrible execution by the director. It has been just so campy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ May 26, 2015 -> 12:44 PM) Man, the Dorne stuff is so bad it seems beyond redemption. I've never seen this show do worse character introduction and development than with the Sand Snakes. That scene in the jail was like something out of a Starz show, not Game of Thrones. And all of the "wink" and side-eye glances in the cell, "oh here she goes again" crap. Andy greenwald made a point that the shooting of this show is so intense, they can't be at every set and basically what they shoot is what they get. I wonder if they got the Dorne stuff and were like "crap, well, we gotta make it work". I wonder if it is just poor writing, or horrible execution by the director. It has been just so campy. I seriously think it's intentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Alright so looks like Tyrion will replace Barristan as ruler of Mereen when Dany goes off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 26, 2015 -> 02:16 PM) I seriously think it's intentional. For what purpose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ May 26, 2015 -> 12:44 PM) Man, the Dorne stuff is so bad it seems beyond redemption. I've never seen this show do worse character introduction and development than with the Sand Snakes. That scene in the jail was like something out of a Starz show, not Game of Thrones. And all of the "wink" and side-eye glances in the cell, "oh here she goes again" crap. Andy greenwald made a point that the shooting of this show is so intense, they can't be at every set and basically what they shoot is what they get. I wonder if they got the Dorne stuff and were like "crap, well, we gotta make it work". I wonder if it is just poor writing, or horrible execution by the director. It has been just so campy. The Dorne stuff was going to be so difficult to integrate into the show. Martin spent a bunch of time on it and really where did that story go in two books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 26, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) For what purpose? Laughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 26, 2015 -> 01:42 PM) The Dorne stuff was going to be so difficult to integrate into the show. Martin spent a bunch of time on it and really where did that story go in two books? Yeah...all that story to set up TWOW probably. I can see a bigger part to play during that book...but you're right about how far they took their story in book 4 and 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ May 26, 2015 -> 11:44 AM) Man, the Dorne stuff is so bad it seems beyond redemption. I've never seen this show do worse character introduction and development than with the Sand Snakes. That scene in the jail was like something out of a Starz show, not Game of Thrones. And all of the "wink" and side-eye glances in the cell, "oh here she goes again" crap. Andy greenwald made a point that the shooting of this show is so intense, they can't be at every set and basically what they shoot is what they get. I wonder if they got the Dorne stuff and were like "crap, well, we gotta make it work". I wonder if it is just poor writing, or horrible execution by the director. It has been just so campy. The only redeemable thing out of Dorne so far has been Doran...and he's been in what, a total of 3 minutes? Well, him and Tyene... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Did any of you book readers notice the likely introduction of, or at least nod to, Strong Belwas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) A little surprised no one posted this yet... Season 6 casting descriptions Cliffnotes: -Very likely Euron Greyjoy and Randyll Tarly. -3 family members (mother/brother/sister), article speculates that it's the rest of Sam's family. -An ex-soldier turned priest. Septon Maribald? -3 characters that aren't obviously from the books. One is a traveling actress, one is a young priestess, another is a tall warrior of "mixed ethnicity", possibly suggesting a Dornishman or Dothraki. -3 boys, two age 7-8 and one age 12. The descriptions sound like a potential flashback with Robert, Ned and Brandon. Edited May 28, 2015 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ May 27, 2015 -> 10:00 PM) A little surprised no one posted this yet... Season 6 casting descriptions Cliffnotes: -Very likely Euron Greyjoy and Randyll Tarly. -3 family members (mother/brother/sister), article speculates that it's the rest of Sam's family. -An ex-soldier turned priest. Septon Maribald? -3 characters that aren't obviously from the books. One is a traveling actress, one is a young priestess, another is a tall warrior of "mixed ethnicity", possibly suggesting a Dornishman or Dothraki. -3 boys, two age 7-8 and one age 12. The descriptions sound like a potential flashback with Robert, Ned and Brandon. Super pumped about Euron. The actor who plays Balon is in the credits for episode 10 according to IMDB, so we could see his death soon. Also, that "mixed ethnicity" warrior could be Khal Joqo or Khal Mago (whatever one is still alive in the show) that Dany meets with Drogon at the end of aDwD. Don't really care about the Tarlys but it would be cool to see a flashback scene with those boys. Doesn't Bran see a vision of history through a Weirwood tree that is supposedly Brandon at one point too? Also, grain of massive salt needed, but according to IMDB, the actor who portrayed Benjen is credited in one of the upcoming 3 episodes. So speculate away on that if it's true. Edited May 28, 2015 by ChiSox_Sonix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 They are going to have to go back in time to tell those stories which will be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 26, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) Alright so looks like Tyrion will replace Barristan as ruler of Mereen when Dany goes off. Yep. I am hoping that we are treated to a Tyrion "who dun it" poison investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Awesome news about Euron & Tarley. Not sure if the maesters subplot will be included, but clearly Oldtown & the Reach will be a major plot point next season and this all but confirms that Sam will be heading there soon. My guess is he goes to Horn Hill to drop off Gilly and then gets caught in the middle of Euron's invasion of Oldtown. Also, this makes me think Loras will survive his trial and be involved in this storyline, filling the role of his brothers in Winds of Winter. On an unrelated note, I'm convinced that Trystane is Aegon. The Dorne storyline has been pointless up until now, and Doran has barely been used this season. Given he only has one child who happens to be a boy, his marriage pact plan with the Targaryens doesn't seem possible IMO. There has to be a payoff to this storyline and I think that will be a big "Trystane = Aegon" reveal. The fact we haven't seen or heard about Varys for a while makes me believe he'll make a late-season cameo and announce his true intentions. Not sure if that will be in Dorne with Doran or in King's Landing with Kevin and/or Pycelle, but I doubt we've seen the last Varys and I'm certain it won't be with Dany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 28, 2015 -> 12:52 PM) Awesome news about Euron & Tarley. Not sure if the maesters subplot will be included, but clearly Oldtown & the Reach will be a major plot point next season and this all but confirms that Sam will be heading there soon. My guess is he goes to Horn Hill to drop off Gilly and then gets caught in the middle of Euron's invasion of Oldtown. Also, this makes me think Loras will survive his trial and be involved in this storyline, filling the role of his brothers in Winds of Winter. On an unrelated note, I'm convinced that Trystane is Aegon. The Dorne storyline has been pointless up until now, and Doran has barely been used this season. Given he only has one child who happens to be a boy, his marriage pact plan with the Targaryens doesn't seem possible IMO. There has to be a payoff to this storyline and I think that will be a big "Trystane = Aegon" reveal. The fact we haven't seen or heard about Varys for a while makes me believe he'll make a late-season cameo and announce his true intentions. Not sure if that will be in Dorne with Doran or in King's Landing with Kevin and/or Pycelle, but I doubt we've seen the last Varys and I'm certain it won't be with Dany. Ive been thinking the same. I'm thinking Dorne support for Dany/Viserys has switched with Varys/Ilyrio support for Aegon. Doran is show supporter of Aegon and Varys is show supporter of Dany. I think this makes even more sense with Arianne actually travelling to meet with the supposed Aegon landing near storms end Edited May 30, 2015 by onedude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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