Baltimore Riots

[Texsox]

let me see if i got this right, there are some crooked cops, the IA knows of this, but since there is a shortage of good applicants, ergo you won't do anything..

 

Cleaning shop and creating a better long term force and firing some crooked cops are two completely different things. If you keep firing some guys and keep dipping into the same gene pool the problem will continue. If you want to clean house and build a better long term department you have to fire the bad cops and replace them with something better. Anything less and you are just treading water. Same problems, new faces.

[LDF]

Cleaning shop and creating a better long term force and firing some crooked cops are two completely different things. If you keep firing some guys and keep dipping into the same gene pool the problem will continue. If you want to clean house and build a better long term department you have to fire the bad cops and replace them with something better. Anything less and you are just treading water. Same problems, new faces.

 

this so called gene pool as you said, is border line racial insult. there is no gene pool. there is a pool of new applicants who wants a job.

 

somewhere along the line, something triggered something that made these cops think that it was kool to do this crap. identify it, and get rid of it.

[Cknolls]

From the sound of it, they handcuffed the guy and gave him the blender treatment in the back of the van. That's at least some sort of serious assault charges, or possibly whatever Maryland calls deadly assault. Murder might be within reach but I'd want to know more about the case first before I made that guess. In any case, hard to see how there wouldn't be very serious charges.

 

 

Wash Post came out with a report last night referncing another suspect in the back of the van with him. The other guy says he was trying to injure himself.....FWIW...

[StrangeSox]

Wash Post came out with a report last night referncing another suspect in the back of the van with him. The other guy says he was trying to injure himself.....FWIW...

WaPo repeated leaked info from the Balitmore PD unquestioningly. Local reporters heard differently earlier.

 

https://twitter.com/jemillerwbal

[NorthSideSox72]

Wash Post came out with a report last night referncing another suspect in the back of the van with him. The other guy says he was trying to injure himself.....FWIW...

Actually I think it was the Police that said that. And frankly I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the guy was not only trying to injure himself, but that he was able to do so in such a way that he nearly severed his spine.

 

There should be cameras in the holding area of all police vehicles going forward, so that we don't have to even ask these questions.

 

[pettie4sox]

Silly question but what is the blender treatment?

[NorthSideSox72]

Silly question but what is the blender treatment?

When you put something in a blender, you basically put them in an enclosed space and turn on the blades, where they bounce around and get shredded for a whole. Partially from the blades, partially from just banging around in an enclosed space.

 

This was a "rough ride" in the van.

 

It's just a different term I'd heard used before.

 

[LDF]

Wash Post came out with a report last night referncing another suspect in the back of the van with him. The other guy says he was trying to injure himself.....FWIW...

 

if the van / patrol car has cameras, pull the tape.

 

just to clear this thing up, yeah he may be trying to injured himself, to the point of killing oneself. self preservation of the human factor, will only go so far..... just throwing that out there.

[StrangeSox]

David Simon [creator of The Wire] on Baltimore’s Anguish

 

Too much solid stuff to really excerpt a paragraph or two. If you've seen The Wire, you know his view of things, but he lays it out pretty well in this interview.

[LDF]

 

real life experience is way different than what someone can write or anything like that. in my life, i have gotten the crap beat out of me by the cops 4 times.

 

1 in dallas, 1 in okc and 2 times in chi.

 

the dallas and okc was b/c i was apache indian. the one in okc was really bad, the feds were called in b/c of my race, 1983. i got pictures of that facial results. that was when i learned of this phrase, "prairie n*****" ... no offense to anyone.

 

the 2 time in chi, one was in the back of a paddy wagon by 2 chi black officers, handcuff to the bar and beaten with a night stick. the other was on the north side of chi toughy and western, and that was by 2 white cops, b/c i was hispanic. both was in the late 70's.

 

so the injustice it there. do i blame all cops, no, but it is a problem. that is why i keep saying fix the house first. [

[Texsox]

this so called gene pool as you said, is border line racial insult. there is no gene pool. there is a pool of new applicants who wants a job.

 

somewhere along the line, something triggered something that made these cops think that it was kool to do this crap. identify it, and get rid of it.

 

I'm not certain how that could be considered racist.

Gene: a unit of heredity that is transferred from a parent to offspring and is held to determine some characteristic of the offspring.

 

If you keep pulling from the same pool of applicants, with the same characteristics, you will continue to have the same results. You want to get rid of "it" once they are on the force. I want to get rid of "it" before they get on the force. I'm surprised that you would disagree with that.

[cabiness42]

real life experience is way different than what someone can write or anything like that. in my life, i have gotten the crap beat out of me by the cops 4 times.

 

1 in dallas, 1 in okc and 2 times in chi.

 

the dallas and okc was b/c i was apache indian. the one in okc was really bad, the feds were called in b/c of my race, 1983. i got pictures of that facial results. that was when i learned of this phrase, "prairie n*****" ... no offense to anyone.

 

the 2 time in chi, one was in the back of a paddy wagon by 2 chi black officers, handcuff to the bar and beaten with a night stick. the other was on the north side of chi toughy and western, and that was by 2 white cops, b/c i was hispanic. both was in the late 70's.

 

so the injustice it there. do i blame all cops, no, but it is a problem. that is why i keep saying fix the house first. [

 

I don't deny that this kind of stuff happens to minorities at a higher rate, but I have white friends who have gotten the s*** beat out of them by cops for no good reason as well. Some cops are just assholes on a power trip and not necessarily racist.

[LDF]

I don't deny that this kind of stuff happens to minorities at a higher rate, but I have white friends who have gotten the s*** beat out of them by cops for no good reason as well. Some cops are just assholes on a power trip and not necessarily racist.

 

that is exactly the point, stuff like this happens everywhere in the country. then these little hotbeds pop up and major problems happens from it. then you have others trying to make gain, political power, or separate agendas to promote.

 

that is why i am saying and ranting as i am, this country is ripe for another 60's kind of riots.

[Balta1701]

Wash Post came out with a report last night referncing another suspect in the back of the van with him. The other guy says he was trying to injure himself.....FWIW...

 

 

When you put something in a blender, you basically put them in an enclosed space and turn on the blades, where they bounce around and get shredded for a whole. Partially from the blades, partially from just banging around in an enclosed space.

 

This was a "rough ride" in the van.

 

It's just a different term I'd heard used before.

 

 

if the van / patrol car has cameras, pull the tape.

 

just to clear this thing up, yeah he may be trying to injured himself, to the point of killing oneself. self preservation of the human factor, will only go so far..... just throwing that out there.

FWIW, someone actually asked one of the spinal injury experts at Johns Hopkins about whether that could even happen and they reported that there's only 1 example on record of a self-inflicted neck injury since they began keeping data. Video also shows when the police opened the back of the car and they don't do so as they would if they'd had a screaming madman in the back.

[Jenksismyhero]

FWIW, someone actually asked one of the spinal injury experts at Johns Hopkins about whether that could even happen and they reported that there's only 1 example on record of a self-inflicted neck injury since they began keeping data.

 

Do we know where his spine was broken? I'm assuming we're talking about the neck, right?

 

If so, I have personal experience of a friend who broke his neck and got paralyzed in a freak accident. It's entirely possible (though I don't buy it) that he was hurling himself around inside the van and fell or hit his head in a weird way while the van was bouncing around and suffered the injury. Just because he didn't ram his head into the side of the van in an attempt to break his neck doesn't mean it's not possible that he still caused it by doing something else.

 

Again, I don't buy it, but I don't really think an expert's opinion on known cases of self-inflicted spinal injuries is all that persuasive.

 

edit: and if it was self inflicted, wouldn't he have a bunch of contusions/hematoma in his head from the repeated injury? That's going to take quite a bit of force.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[Jake]

From what I understand, it will be fairly difficult to charge these officers, let alone convict them of anything.

[NorthSideSox72]

From what I understand, it will be fairly difficult to charge these officers, let alone convict them of anything.

Guy got in the van intact, got out nearly dead. I'd be shocked if they weren't charged pretty seriously. However I agree that conviction could face complications.

 

Again, people are talking about lapel cameras, but why aren't we talking about cameras inside vehicles and facilities? I mean outside, there's an increasing chance any given incident will be filmed by someone anyway. Inside a police station or police vehicle, that's a different story. I think that's more of a need than lapel cameras, and also a lot easier to implement and keep running. Lapel cameras are tough to make work consistently, but a static camera is pretty easy.

 

Once a subject is in controlled custory (arrest or otherwise) and is on or in police property, from that point forward there should be no place they are taken that isn't filmed (until they are released). Impose sanctions, increased scrutiny and fines on departments that are found to have facilities that aren't. Criminalize conduct of anyone employed by a law enforcement body disabling or hampering with a recording device for that purpose.

 

This by the way would actually protect officers who do things the right way, helping shield them from false accusations.

 

[StrangeSox]

From what I understand, it will be fairly difficult to charge these officers, let alone convict them of anything.

Then that's a failure of our system of justice.

[Jake]

I honestly don't recall the full logic of it, but as I heard it explained they have very little liability - "they" being the police officers - for what happens in that van so long as you can't prove they intentionally created that situation, which seems doubtful unless someone fesses up.

 

It is telling, though, that the commissioner has essentially already said they know that the injuries are the fault of the officers. Legally speaking, it seems like the big question is whether it was malice or negligence.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Jake

[Jenksismyhero]

Guy got in the van intact, got out nearly dead. I'd be shocked if they weren't charged pretty seriously. However I agree that conviction could face complications.

 

Again, people are talking about lapel cameras, but why aren't we talking about cameras inside vehicles and facilities? I mean outside, there's an increasing chance any given incident will be filmed by someone anyway. Inside a police station or police vehicle, that's a different story. I think that's more of a need than lapel cameras, and also a lot easier to implement and keep running. Lapel cameras are tough to make work consistently, but a static camera is pretty easy.

 

Once a subject is in controlled custory (arrest or otherwise) and is on or in police property, from that point forward there should be no place they are taken that isn't filmed (until they are released). Impose sanctions, increased scrutiny and fines on departments that are found to have facilities that aren't. Criminalize conduct of anyone employed by a law enforcement body disabling or hampering with a recording device for that purpose.

 

This by the way would actually protect officers who do things the right way, helping shield them from false accusations.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is your answer. These are rare circumstances. It sucks that they happen, cops/higher ups should be held responsible, policies and procedures need to change, but that's quite an investment and continued maintenance cost for something that happens 1 time out of how many arrests? 1000? 10,000? Just not a very cost effective move. I'd rather they put that money towards something else (if anything).

 

 

[Texsox]

Has anyone seen a diagram of how prisoners are secured in the vehicle? I had assumed that they are secured in a way that a "Blender" couldn't occur. Obviously I was wrong in that assumption.

[Texsox]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is your answer. These are rare circumstances. It sucks that they happen, cops/higher ups should be held responsible, policies and procedures need to change, but that's quite an investment and continued maintenance cost for something that happens 1 time out of how many arrests? 1000? 10,000? Just not a very cost effective move. I'd rather they put that money towards something else (if anything).

 

I was thinking about that. Isn't the cost of that technology pretty cheap now? At least cheaper than the potential problems it would solve.

[NorthSideSox72]

I honestly don't recall the full logic of it, but as I heard it explained they have very little liability - "they" being the police officers - for what happens in that van so long as you can't prove they intentionally created that situation, which seems doubtful unless someone fesses up.

 

It is telling, though, that the commissioner has essentially already said they know that the injuries are the fault of the officers. Legally speaking, it seems like the big question is whether it was malice or negligence.

 

There was an interesting case just recently, an Albuquerque officer (their department has had issues the last few years) beat a subject for literally no reason, then told his fellow officers to "go live" with their lapel cameras after and acted all nice. What made him chargeable? The probationary officer who was also there on the call gave him up to the department, gave a statement. Interesting.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is your answer. These are rare circumstances. It sucks that they happen, cops/higher ups should be held responsible, policies and procedures need to change, but that's quite an investment and continued maintenance cost for something that happens 1 time out of how many arrests? 1000? 10,000? Just not a very cost effective move. I'd rather they put that money towards something else (if anything).

 

It's really a very small expense. Each of those simple cameras are like $20 a piece. Some cable, a computer, and a video archiving software package. For one police station that's probably $2000 total, which is nothing unless it is some super-small rural department. The cars might be different, as the cameras are cheap but I'm not sure how the archiving works, but I'd think it wouldn't cost a ton. Probably a lot less than the laptop/MCATs they have in the cars anyway.

[NorthSideSox72]

Here's the story on that case in ABQ. Looks like not only did an APD officer turn him in, there was also potentially a citizen video involved.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Has anyone seen a diagram of how prisoners are secured in the vehicle? I had assumed that they are secured in a way that a "Blender" couldn't occur. Obviously I was wrong in that assumption.

I think the point of a rough ride is that they're deliberately not secured appropriately.