NorthSideSox72 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (Jake @ May 1, 2015 -> 10:20 AM) One thing about this camera business is that we should be careful what we wish for. There are clearly some things to be gained from body cameras or cameras inside of police vans or jail cells. With that said, I'm not eager to sign away my right not to be videotaped. It is not a big leap to go from "we need cameras around police activity" to "we need cameras anywhere crimes may be committed." That is a HUGE leap. The difference in your rights while in legal police custody and not are quite large, from a legal standpoint. Totally different world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 when a person get detained by the police or arrested, while they do have rights, the police dept should also start looking at the rights of the PO, esp to protect them from bogus claims. they the person getting arrested surrenders some of its rights and this should extend to camera surveillance. the PO getting charge, if you notice, they were kind of vague on the manslaughter indictments. so the discussion will prob end in the culpability of the officers, all of them. i see some of the officers turning states evidences, real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The charges: Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr: Second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle, misconduct in office Sgt. Alicia D. White: Manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office Lt. Brian W. Rice: Involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office, false imprisonment Officer William G. Porter: Involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office Officer Garrett Miller: Second-degree assault, misconduct in office, false imprisonment Officer Edward M. Nero: Second-degree assault, misconduct in office, false imprisonment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 This is an article from an unlikely source (Fox Sports) that details this in a very interesting way. http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/...-of-mail-050115 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 1, 2015 -> 11:32 AM) This is an article from an unlikely source (Fox Sports) that details this in a very interesting way. http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/...-of-mail-050115 Except all those other ways to die should be broken down into wilfull/malicious negligence as the primary cause...then it changes things quite a bit. Of course, if you put drunk driving and a policeman killing a suspect deliberately in the same category subjectively, then this makes sense. For example, getting hit by lightning while golfing tends to be self-inflicted and often avoidable, right? I will agree that child mortality rates should go down, but, once again, have they risen because of malpractice on the part of doctors and nurses? Whats the real underlying or endemic cause? With the CHIP and AFCA, mortality rates should be falling, not rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 1, 2015 -> 02:31 PM) Except all those other ways to die should be broken down into wilfull/malicious negligence as the primary cause...then it changes things quite a bit. Of course, if you put drunk driving and a policeman killing a suspect deliberately in the same category subjectively, then this makes sense. For example, getting hit by lightning while golfing tends to be self-inflicted and often avoidable, right? I will agree that child mortality rates should go down, but, once again, have they risen because of malpractice on the part of doctors and nurses? Whats the real underlying or endemic cause? With the CHIP and AFCA, mortality rates should be falling, not rising. You completely missed the point of the article in favor of writing out gibberish, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 1, 2015 -> 02:31 PM) Whats the real underlying or endemic cause? With the CHIP and AFCA, mortality rates should be falling, not rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Balta, who did the research and did you find any conclusions that were drawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ May 1, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) Balta, who did the research and did you find any conclusions that were drawn? That was taken from Wikipedia since I knew they'd host it but the original count is produced and maintained by the CDC. The government regularly produces reports on that data, here's an abstract version, I don't have time to cull the full details because doctor's appointment in 15 min. Quote Consistent with these patterns in the timing of excess infant mortality, the majority of the infant mortality disparity between non-Hispanic Blacks and non-Hispanic Whites is due to causes related to prematurity and to a lesser extent, SIDS, congenital malformations, and injury.9,10 The American Indian/Alaska Native infant mortality gap is mostly explained by SIDS, congenital malformations, prematurity, and injury while the excess among Puerto Rican mothers is mostly related to prematurity.11,12 Readable english language version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Interesting. I wonder about the nature and causes of the "injury" group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Are the 6 cops charged all white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 1, 2015 -> 07:11 PM) Are the 6 cops charged all white? That would actually be good to know. I guess no media outlet wants to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ May 1, 2015 -> 02:23 PM) That would actually be good to know. I guess no media outlet wants to go there. Also, what are the odds of them getting a fair trial? And I am not saying that to side with them. If they are guilty, they deserve prison. Edited May 1, 2015 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 1, 2015 -> 08:26 PM) Also, what are the odds of them getting a fair trial? And I am not saying that to side with them. If they are guilty, they deserve prison. Well, we know a person died that shouldn't have. These six officers are in deep s***, or at least four of the six. I'd think the two with lesser charges will be headed to jail for multiple years as well. Considering I read Baltimore has 50 percent black police officers, it would be strange if all six of these charged were white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 1, 2015 -> 03:11 PM) Are the 6 cops charged all white? At least 3 of them are, based on an image I have seen from the initial arrest. The driver's name sounds like he may be Hispanic but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 1, 2015 -> 07:26 PM) Also, what are the odds of them getting a fair trial? And I am not saying that to side with them. If they are guilty, they deserve prison. the one charge i have a problem with is the involuntary manslaughter charge. it should be, if needed classified as manslaughter. the courts can argue whether it was intentional or not. if the police crossed the line to break the law, and this was the result, they deserve the full count of the law. and more so, b/c they should be held to a higher level, b/c they are cops. ~~~ edit: should there have been a other charge, - conspiracy to commit a felony, falsifying and obstruction in a criminal investigation. i may be wrong on the legal words to use here. Edited May 1, 2015 by LDF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 1, 2015 -> 02:11 PM) Are the 6 cops charged all white? Does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 1, 2015 -> 09:05 PM) Does it matter? Yeah. In a racially charged case with people rioting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 1, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) The charges: Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr: Second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle, misconduct in office Sgt. Alicia D. White: Manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office Lt. Brian W. Rice: Involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office, false imprisonment Officer William G. Porter: Involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office Officer Garrett Miller: Second-degree assault, misconduct in office, false imprisonment Officer Edward M. Nero: Second-degree assault, misconduct in office, false imprisonment Some terrible stuff here: http://mashable.com/2015/05/01/damning-det...om-Tw-main-link Still, I just have a really hard time believing that they'll get hit with murder, especially the second degree murder charge and the manslaughter charge. Both require intent. How are they ever going to prove that? Especially with White. All she did was fail to call for help "knowing" (per Mosbly) that Gray was unconscious and unresponsive. The involuntary manslaughter charges also don't make much sense. I'd argue if there was any killing it's the driver that caused it. Whether or not the other officers knew that he was in serious need of medical attention, and that they're failure to act lead to his death, is a little unclear. I think Goodson should be hit with involuntary manslaughter/manslaughter by vehicle if it can be shown that his driving caused Gray's injuries. Miller, Nero and Rice should be hit with the assault charges and misconduct for the way they arrested him and put him in the van. Porter and White shouldn't have been charged, based on Mosby's press conference anyway. I don't see how those cops' failure to get him medical attention is an assault. The official misconduct is probably legit. False imprisonment....surely there's some kind of immunity from criminal charges for that, right? Wouldn't every wrongful arrest result in criminal charges against the cops? Does that happen? Edited May 1, 2015 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 1, 2015 -> 09:18 PM) Some terrible stuff here: http://mashable.com/2015/05/01/damning-det...om-Tw-main-link Still, I just have a really hard time believing that they'll get hit with murder, especially the second degree murder charge and the manslaughter charge. Both require intent. How are they ever going to prove that? Especially with White. All she did was fail to call for help "knowing" (per Mosbly) that Gray was unconscious and unresponsive. The involuntary manslaughter charges also don't make much sense. I'd argue if there was any killing it's the driver that caused it. Whether or not the other officers knew that he was in serious need of medical attention, and that they're failure to act lead to his death, is a little unclear. I think Goodson should be hit with involuntary manslaughter/manslaughter by vehicle if it can be shown that his driving caused Gray's injuries. Miller, Nero and Rice should be hit with the assault charges and misconduct for the way they arrested him and put him in the van. Porter and White shouldn't have been charged, based on Mosby's press conference anyway. I don't see how those cops' failure to get him medical attention is an assault. The official misconduct is probably legit. False imprisonment....surely there's some kind of immunity from criminal charges for that, right? Wouldn't every wrongful arrest result in criminal charges against the cops? Does that happen? the intent was to commit a crime. period. the end result does not make more or less severe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ May 1, 2015 -> 03:32 PM) the intent was to commit a crime. period. the end result does not make more or less severe. That's not how the law works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 1, 2015 -> 09:33 PM) That's not how the law works. you are prob right, i do not know the law. but the point is also the PO should be held at a higher level, b/c they are the enforcers of the law, when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The Baltimore Police Union is calling for a special prosecutor to be appointed in the case. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to laugh at this but I want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Just like with Eric Garner, the guy who filmed Fred Gray's arrest has been arrested. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...t-10217973.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 1, 2015 -> 03:10 PM) Yeah. In a racially charged case with people rioting. The specific case has nothing to do with race. It's about abusive police officers killing a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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