Baltimore Riots

[caulfield12]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/c...umn.html#page=1

 

Excellent editorial on Baltimore's past (since 1968), what led to today and where it's going in the future.

 

All "The Wire" fans out there will definitely enjoy it.

Edited April 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[Brian]

Yeah, I can't remember the exact movie....it was a Jennifer Lopez one, something about a train and kids trying to copy some of the same exact moves from the movie.

 

Money Train, maybe?

 

I was even thinking of Scream 2. Ha

[caulfield12]

Baltimore Sun Investigates: Undue Force (Sept. 2014): Baltimore has paid about $5.7 million since 2011 over lawsuits claiming that police officers brazenly beat up alleged suspects. One hidden cost: The perception that officers are violent can poison the relationship between residents and police.

[Balta1701]

Baltimore Sun Investigates: Undue Force (Sept. 2014): Baltimore has paid about $5.7 million since 2011 over lawsuits claiming that police officers brazenly beat up alleged suspects. One hidden cost: The perception that officers are violent can poison the relationship between residents and police.

That's nothing. Chicago has paid out half a billion dollars in the last decade.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

After all, I'm sure these are the only 2 times this has happened right?

 

You're right, it's happened more than that. These types of responses are totally justified now!

[Balta1701]

You're right, it's happened more than that. These types of responses are totally justified now!

All I'm doing is taking the same statements these people want to put out about the rioters breaking the law and applying them to the people who broke the law and actually killed a guy.

 

If these riots are uncivilized, if these riots show that the African American community is violent and undisciplined, then the dead body says the exact same thing about the police force.

 

If you keep filling up gasoline tanks and throwing burning matches at them, yelling at the gasoline for exploding isn't going to be very productive.

[caulfield12]

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/04/28/ba...y-daily-hit.cnn

[cabiness42]

Baltimore Sun Investigates: Undue Force (Sept. 2014): Baltimore has paid about $5.7 million since 2011 over lawsuits claiming that police officers brazenly beat up alleged suspects. One hidden cost: The perception that officers are violent can poison the relationship between residents and police.

 

Is there any sort of breakdown as to the race of the suspects receiving payments?

[caulfield12]

All I'm doing is taking the same statements these people want to put out about the rioters breaking the law and applying them to the people who broke the law and actually killed a guy.

 

If these riots are uncivilized, if these riots show that the African American community is violent and undisciplined, then the dead body says the exact same thing about the police force.

 

If you keep filling up gasoline tanks and throwing burning matches at them, yelling at the gasoline for exploding isn't going to be very productive.

 

Except you're talking about a chemical compound that strictly will follow the laws of nature.

 

Human beings not being able to control themselves....well, you didn't see them break discipline on the Edmund Pettus Bridge or in India during the Great Salt March. By and large, you didn't see it happen very often in South Africa in the 70's and 80's (Mandela/ANC) or even with Malcolm X's Nation of Islam before he was slain at the Audubon Ballroom in Harlem.

 

It's understandable, maybe even justified in some minds...but that doesn't mean it's 100% inevitable for human beings to devolve into lawlessness, chaos and anarchy. Not with the right leadership.

Edited April 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[ChiSox_Sonix]

All I'm doing is taking the same statements these people want to put out about the rioters breaking the law and applying them to the people who broke the law and actually killed a guy.

 

No it's not. All your doing is trying to twist words and phrase things in ways that insinuate that the person is saying something they are not in an attempt to deflect blame away from what is going on.

 

If these riots are uncivilized, if these riots show that the African American community is violent and undisciplined, then the dead body says the exact same thing about the police force.

 

The riots are uncivilized. There's no f***ing "if". It's seriously, maddeningly and frustratingly baffling, that some people here, and you especially, who are clearly extremely intelligent can be so obtuse sometimes, whether it is an act, or on purpose or just to play the devil's advocate card.

 

There is no justifying those actions. And at the same time, no one is defending what happened prior to the riots. Some of you guys are trying so hard to make it seem like people are excusing the police, but despite how many times it's repeated, does not make it true.

 

The rioters are uncivilized, no one is extrapolating that out to equal "the whole African american community". That is stupid. Just as stupid as blaming an entire police force for the actions for a few. Just as stupid as blaming an entire group of anyone or anything because of the actions of a small amount of that said group.

 

If you keep filling up gasoline tanks and throwing burning matches at them, yelling at the gasoline for exploding isn't going to be very productive.

 

Again, justification for what's going on apparently. I bet everyone who was been hurt in this in any type of capacity was 100% directly responsible for every slight against every rioting member right now. Good that they finally got what was coming to them I suppose.

 

[StrangeSox]

An explanation is not a defense.

[NorthSideSox72]

1. The police breaking the rules and beating suspects is absolutely not new. In fact, in the modern day surveillance society, I can guarantee you it is substantially less now than it was. It's still bad and needs to be fixed, but people have this weird idea that it is a new phenomenon. It's not. You just hear about it now.

 

2. Similar trend, people with the whole "society is in so much trouble now" thing. Crime rates have been in general decline for a few decades now, and though there are blips, they still are. Again, you're just seeing it more now.

 

3. Bad acts by bad actors do not mean other actors can become bad actors in response. That is a spiral of violence. What the cops are doing does not justify violence and looting. Full stop.

 

4. Police departments in the US are generally far less trained on sub-weapon force and general situational tactics than their bretheren in the rest of the first world. That's part of the issue here. Many large city departments are also far, far less stringent on who they let in in terms of qualifications and testing than the others.

 

[Balta1701]

The best way to change stereotypes is to perform the stereotypical act. Good job young black males of baltimore.

 

 

The rioters are uncivilized, no one is extrapolating that out to equal "the whole African american community". That is stupid. Just as stupid as blaming an entire police force for the actions for a few. Just as stupid as blaming an entire group of anyone or anything because of the actions of a small amount of that said group.

 

[Balta1701]

1. The police breaking the rules and beating suspects is absolutely not new. In fact, in the modern day surveillance society, I can guarantee you it is substantially less now than it was. It's still bad and needs to be fixed, but people have this weird idea that it is a new phenomenon. It's not. You just hear about it now.

 

2. Similar trend, people with the whole "society is in so much trouble now" thing. Crime rates have been in general decline for a few decades now, and though there are blips, they still are. Again, you're just seeing it more now.

 

3. Bad acts by bad actors do not mean other actors can become bad actors in response. That is a spiral of violence. What the cops are doing does not justify violence and looting. Full stop.

 

4. Police departments in the US are generally far less trained on sub-weapon force and general situational tactics than their bretheren in the rest of the first world. That's part of the issue here. Many large city departments are also far, far less stringent on who they let in in terms of qualifications and testing than the others.

The point I'd add is that even though it's not justified...when a community feels wronged by the police over a long time period, that community is primed for an explosion and that's what we keep seeing. The way the police treat these communities on an everyday basis is what sets up these situations.

 

It's not justified, but if all people do is say how unjustified the riot is without dealing with the underlying causes, the end result will be more riots. Hence the gas can analogy i'm using.

[EvilMonkey]

The point I'd add is that even though it's not justified...when a community feels wronged by the police over a long time period, that community is primed for an explosion and that's what we keep seeing. The way the police treat these communities on an everyday basis is what sets up these situations.

 

It's not justified, but if all people do is say how unjustified the riot is without dealing with the underlying causes, the end result will be more riots. Hence the gas can analogy i'm using.

With voter turnout less than 50% in Baltimore, how do they expect to affect change? They need to do something other than just b**** and riot. The party that supposedly cares for them is in charge, why can't they fix it?

[LDF]

That's the point, nobody trusts anything that smacks of Federal intervention/mediation, the police departments won't accept it and it's just not an effective way to run a department...it would be like if a teacher had someone coming to their class and take notes and monitoring them on a class by class basis (to make sure they were teaching the curriculum/syllabus), if someone doesn't trust you to do the job you were hired to do, then there's something wrong with the system.

 

There's no confidence in either local, state or national politicians right now. Certainly not TRUST. This type of incident has happened so many times and been covered up or pushed under the rug that minority communities feel at this point there's no other alternative than attempting to garner as much media attention as possible.

 

Actually, Elijah Cummings is probably the most respected of all, the Congressman who gave the eulogy and who's widely-expected to run for Barbara Mikulski's Senate seat.

 

then he should have taken the bull by the horn and demand a sort of intervention.

[LDF]

But the spark that ignited Monday's pandemonium likely started with high school students on social media.

 

An online flier advertised a "purge" after school Monday, starting at Baltimore's Mondawmin Mall, The Baltimore Sun reported.

 

The film "The Purge" (actually, there are two films) is about a dystopian future society in which all laws are suspended for one 24-hour period every year.

 

Baltimore authorities got wind of the plans, Police Commissioner Anthony Batts said.

 

"We had gotten information yesterday that at Mondawmin Mall, we're going to have a large 'purge' of high school students from across the city," Batts said. "We had pretty close to about 250 to 300 police officers staged in or around Mondawmin Mall at the time the youth got out of school."

 

 

A case of life imitating art? We always have these debates about violent video games results in "real world" violence, and now we have a movie (seemingly) directly influencing real life events.

 

from www.cnn.com

 

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/...ory.html#page=1

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/...ory.html#page=1

 

where are the leaders of yesteryear, the MLK of today. demand and acknowledgement from the powers and for peaceful changes or at least an investigation of this.

[LDF]

That's nothing. Chicago has paid out half a billion dollars in the last decade.

 

in the late 70's i got the holy crap beat out of me by 2 cops while handcuff in a patty wagon. i wanted to go to internal affairs and get a lawyer. my brother forbade it b/c he was a cop. i guess he took care of it, by talking to his sargent.

 

i don't anything else happen from that. so yeah, this police crap happens,.

[LDF]

All I'm doing is taking the same statements these people want to put out about the rioters breaking the law and applying them to the people who broke the law and actually killed a guy.

 

If these riots are uncivilized, if these riots show that the African American community is violent and undisciplined, then the dead body says the exact same thing about the police force.

 

If you keep filling up gasoline tanks and throwing burning matches at them, yelling at the gasoline for exploding isn't going to be very productive.

you made a good point.

 

however there are 2 types of rioters at play here. those who want to make a point of abuse, and the other taking advantage of the bedlam happening around them.

[StrangeSox]

Nonviolence as Compliance

 

When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con. And none of this can mean that rioting or violence is "correct" or "wise," any more than a forest fire can be "correct" or "wise." Wisdom isn't the point tonight. Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the rioters themselves.

Edited April 28, 2015 by StrangeSox

[caulfield12]

The Rev. Jamal Bryant, a Baltimore minister who has been pressing for nonviolent protests over Freddie Gray's death, told CNN's Chris Cuomo minutes ago that it was a mistake for Baltimore city schools to cancel classes today.

 

"Today, schools are closed, which … I think is a bad mistake. Because these are young people out. What are you going to do productive?” said Bryant, of Empowerment Temple Church.

 

He said he's inviting students to his church today for two events. First is a one-day training session on how and why to engage in civil disobedience nonviolently.

 

After that, he said he will take students into riot-damaged areas "to go clean up what is messed up."

 

Though he pushes for nonviolence, people are rightly enraged over a "criminal justice system grossly slanted" against African-Americans, Bryant said.

www.cnn.com

 

Would be pretty surprised if they don't play today from all the scenes on television of kids and adults sweeping/cleaning up.

Edited April 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

you made a good point.

 

however there are 2 types of rioters at play here. those who want to make a point of abuse, and the other taking advantage of the bedlam happening around them.

I totally agree and that's why I keep referring to this as a chemical mixture.

 

The process is exactly the same from place to place. Something bad happens. People get out in the streets because they feel that their voice isn't being heard.

 

Protest starts peacefully, but still surrounded by police in riot gear. Things start to turn ugly, either the people start throwing things or yelling at the police or the police react first to a crowd that vastly outnumbers them, things start to break down, and then people take advantage of the situation.

 

It happens the same way every single time.

[LDF]

An explanation is not a defense.

 

a very short response that is really poignant.

 

i like it.

[Dick Allen]

I think the vast majority of the rioters had nothing to do with the peaceful protests. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of them barely knew why the protests were occurring. Just some punks who decided to take advantage of the situation, and now, despite all the "free" stuff they stole yesterday, will be paying for their actions for years. Unfortunately, the people who were going about this the civil way will be paying for this as well, and there is no doubt these actions like setting buildings on fire, destroying businesses, throwing bricks at police, will hurt the overall cause.

 

Has rioting ever worked?

Edited April 28, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

With voter turnout less than 50% in Baltimore, how do they expect to affect change? They need to do something other than just b**** and riot. The party that supposedly cares for them is in charge, why can't they fix it?

This is a statement by Oriole's COO John Angelos made over the weekend after they had the first issue at the ballpark.

Brett, speaking only for myself, I agree with your point that the principle of peaceful, non-violent protest and the observance of the rule of law is of utmost importance in any society. MLK, Gandhi, Mandela and all great opposition leaders throughout history have always preached this precept. Further, it is critical that in any democracy, investigation must be completed and due process must be honored before any government or police members are judged responsible.

 

That said, my greater source of personal concern, outrage and sympathy beyond this particular case is focused neither upon one night’s property damage nor upon the acts, but is focused rather upon the past four-decade period during which an American political elite have shipped middle class and working class jobs away from Baltimore and cities and towns around the U.S. to third-world dictatorships like China and others, plunged tens of millions of good, hard-working Americans into economic devastation, and then followed that action around the nation by diminishing every American’s civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an ever-declining standard of living and suffering at the butt end of an ever-more militarized and aggressive surveillance state.

 

The innocent working families of all backgrounds whose lives and dreams have been cut short by excessive violence, surveillance, and other abuses of the Bill of Rights by government pay the true price, and ultimate price, and one that far exceeds the importances of any kids’ game played tonight, or ever, at Camden Yards. We need to keep in mind people are suffering and dying around the U.S., and while we are thankful no one was injured at Camden Yards, there is a far bigger picture for poor Americans in Baltimore and everywhere who don’t have jobs and are losing economic civil and legal rights, and this makes inconvenience at a ballgame irrelevant in light of the needless suffering government is inflicting upon ordinary Americans.