Baltimore Riots

[NorthSideSox72]

Because the police are supposed to be better than criminals on the street. That's why they're the police. That's why the "this is so uncivilized" and "these are thugs" rings hollow because you won't apply that same standard to police who beat and kill people and then settle things out of court or get this a covered up because they're the police.

 

As soon as you describe the police as thugs for dozens of cases of abuse of power the. You can do the same.

While I agree that police should be held to a higher standard, I have to disagree strongly with your obvious attempts to somehow make them the same as people rioting and looting. Yes, a cop beating a subject and a dude stealing from a broken into store are both violating the law. But the similarity ends there, for better or worse.

 

As far as I can see, you are ready to indict all police for the acts of a few, while vehemently disagreeing with the characterization of looters as the criminals they are. You're doing it by referring to anger as a motivation or reason. If you want to do that, then why not excuse abusive police officers for their anger?

 

How about neither are OK or justified?

 

 

[southsider2k5]

The Baltimore PD chief said last night it's credible.

 

As I would expect him to.

[StrangeSox]

While I agree that police should be held to a higher standard, I have to disagree strongly with your obvious attempts to somehow make them the same as people rioting and looting. Yes, a cop beating a subject and a dude stealing from a broken into store are both violating the law. But the similarity ends there, for better or worse.

I would say that the person using the authority of the state to inflict violence on citizens is much, much worse.

[LDF]

While I agree that police should be held to a higher standard, I have to disagree strongly with your obvious attempts to somehow make them the same as people rioting and looting. Yes, a cop beating a subject and a dude stealing from a broken into store are both violating the law. But the similarity ends there, for better or worse.

 

As far as I can see, you are ready to indict all police for the acts of a few, while vehemently disagreeing with the characterization of looters as the criminals they are. You're doing it by referring to anger as a motivation or reason. If you want to do that, then why not excuse abusive police officers for their anger?

 

How about neither are OK or justified?

 

these are 2 totally different situation.

 

the cops beating and killing of a prep, does tarnish the entire police force, and that is not right.

 

the rioters and looters just show african americans doing it, and that is stereo typing the entire race. i still go back to the mother beating the shiiite out of his son. that goes unnoticed. why, b/c it is not promoting some one agenda. good tv.

[LDF]

these are 2 totally different situation.

 

the cops beating and killing of a prep, does tarnish the entire police force, and that is not right.

 

the rioters and looters just show african americans doing it, and that is stereo typing the entire race. i still go back to the mother beating the shiiite out of his son. that goes unnoticed. why, b/c it is not promoting some one agenda. good tv.

 

if we lived in the perfect utopia kind of world, then people can see the difference.

[LDF]

While I agree that police should be held to a higher standard, I have to disagree strongly with your obvious attempts to somehow make them the same as people rioting and looting. Yes, a cop beating a subject and a dude stealing from a broken into store are both violating the law. But the similarity ends there, for better or worse.

 

As far as I can see, you are ready to indict all police for the acts of a few, while vehemently disagreeing with the characterization of looters as the criminals they are. You're doing it by referring to anger as a motivation or reason. If you want to do that, then why not excuse abusive police officers for their anger?

 

How about neither are OK or justified?

 

while i do respect your opinion, i think your response is too vague of an answer to a simple scenario in which i presented.

[Jenksismyhero]

While I agree that police should be held to a higher standard, I have to disagree strongly with your obvious attempts to somehow make them the same as people rioting and looting. Yes, a cop beating a subject and a dude stealing from a broken into store are both violating the law. But the similarity ends there, for better or worse.

As far as I can see, you are ready to indict all police for the acts of a few, while vehemently disagreeing with the characterization of looters as the criminals they are. You're doing it by referring to anger as a motivation or reason. If you want to do that, then why not excuse abusive police officers for their anger?

 

How about neither are OK or justified?

 

Bingo.

[NorthSideSox72]

I would say that the person using the authority of the state to inflict violence on citizens is much, much worse.

Individual vs individual? Totally agree! Never said otherwise. Abusive cop is worse than simple thief. Definitely.

 

 

[LDF]

Individual vs individual? Totally agree! Never said otherwise. Abusive cop is worse than simple thief. Definitely.

 

but people opinions of cops is all wrong, and the bad cops make it worse. we the citizens needs a police force, to protect us.

[EvilMonkey]

but people opinions of cops is all wrong, and the bad cops make it worse. we the citizens needs a police force, to protect us.

Maybe if the police union wasn't so strong, they could get rid of bad cops...

[caulfield12]

these are 2 totally different situation.

 

the cops beating and killing of a prep, does tarnish the entire police force, and that is not right.

 

the rioters and looters just show african americans doing it, and that is stereo typing the entire race. i still go back to the mother beating the shiiite out of his son. that goes unnoticed. why, b/c it is not promoting some one agenda. good tv.

 

Even that video paints African-Americans with a brush of violence...even if we see it as harmless because it's an older mother "beating" her son, she's not talking him down or using logic, she's resorting to anger out of frustration, which is basically what defines some of the rioters (besides the opportunists).

[StrangeSox]

lol, yes clearly the problem here is unionization.

Edited April 28, 2015 by StrangeSox

[caulfield12]

Bingo.

 

 

Because we hold public servants like policemen, fire fighters and teachers to a higher standard.

 

At least we used to.

 

Not to mention that they're the ones in a position of power or authority.

 

Pretty simple.

[EvilMonkey]

lol, yes clearly the problem here is unionization.

Clearly it is the retention of bad cops. How do we get rid of bad cops? Suggestions?

[Jenksismyhero]

but people opinions of cops is all wrong, and the bad cops make it worse. we the citizens needs a police force, to protect us.

 

That's the missing part here. Sadly there are people on those streets that WANT the cops to intervene. They WANT their homes and businesses protected. But they won't/can't get it because of the "protestors" in the "uprising."

[StrangeSox]

Clearly it is the retention of bad cops. How do we get rid of bad cops? Suggestions?

The problem is much deeper than individual "bad cops." It's a culture that fosters and protects that sort of behavior.

[caulfield12]

Clearly it is the retention of bad cops. How do we get rid of bad cops? Suggestions?

 

Here's a GREAT solution.

 

Part II: Repeat offenders (Oct. 2014): City officials, who say some lawsuits against police are frivolous, add that they are improving the systems that track problem officers — especially those who are repeatedly the subject of lawsuits. And police leaders pledge that officers who have recently sustained complaints of egregious behavior will be bypassed whenever possible for promotions.

 

Note it didn't say FIRED or SUSPENDED or even INVESTIGATED by IA.

Edited April 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Maybe if the police union wasn't so strong, they could get rid of bad cops...

 

wow that came out of nowhere.

 

i may be wrong here, but internal affair investigation can override the protection of the union if the person is found guilty

[Jenksismyhero]

The problem is much deeper than individual "bad cops." It's a culture that fosters and protects that sort of behavior.

 

A culture that for a while now has been led by blacks and democrats, the people who supposedly have Baltimore's best interests in mind.

[LDF]

That's the missing part here. Sadly there are people on those streets that WANT the cops to intervene. They WANT their homes and businesses protected. But they won't/can't get it because of the "protestors" in the "uprising."

 

and i agree and there has to be some sort of intervention, even if it harm interventions. take control of the streets again.

[Balta1701]

While I agree that police should be held to a higher standard, I have to disagree strongly with your obvious attempts to somehow make them the same as people rioting and looting. Yes, a cop beating a subject and a dude stealing from a broken into store are both violating the law. But the similarity ends there, for better or worse.

 

As far as I can see, you are ready to indict all police for the acts of a few, while vehemently disagreeing with the characterization of looters as the criminals they are. You're doing it by referring to anger as a motivation or reason. If you want to do that, then why not excuse abusive police officers for their anger?

 

How about neither are OK or justified?

As far as I can tell every time I've objected to the characterization of all the protestors, rioters, or African Americans as thugs in this thread I have done so by asking for the same standard and language to be applied to the police.

 

I don't believe either is the case but if the Rioters are uncivilized thugs then so are the people who actually murdered a man. What I object to is that it's ok to call the rioters that and then turn to mush when I demand similar language applied to murderers.

 

And when I am told that it's ok for police to be thugs because after all to are these people I then note that the systemic problem can only be solved by fixing things on the police side. That's the one big difference, that's why the police are supposed to be better. No matter how many community leaders come out and call for peace, when the situation is already primed to explode over years a spark can make it explode.

[Jenksismyhero]

wow that came out of nowhere.

 

i may be wrong here, but internal affair investigation can override the protection of the union if the person is found guilty

 

Yeah but if they union wasn't so strong, a cop that's an asshole could be fired for being an asshole. Instead it requires numerous steps and/or serious violations of police conduct to get rid of bad cops. Is that THE reason? No. But it certainly doesn't help.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah but if they union wasn't so strong, a cop that's an asshole could be fired for being an asshole. Instead it requires numerous steps and/or serious violations of police conduct to get rid of bad cops. Is that THE reason? No. But it certainly doesn't help.

This assumes that the police department leadership would label cops who rough people up as "bad cops" instead of good cops doing a good job and that the only thing standing in their way is those pesky unions.

 

eta for example, the Chicago PD ran (still runs?) a systematic torture program out of secret warehouses. The police union isn't the problem here.

Edited April 28, 2015 by StrangeSox

[LDF]

As far as I can tell every time I've objected to the characterization of all the protestors, rioters, or African Americans as thugs in this thread I have done so by asking for the same standard and language to be applied to the police.

 

I don't believe either is the case but if the Rioters are uncivilized thugs then so are the people who actually murdered a man. What I object to is that it's ok to call the rioters that and then turn to mush when I demand similar language applied to murderers.

 

And when I am told that it's ok for police to be thugs because after all to are these people I then note that the systemic problem can only be solved by fixing things on the police side. That's the one big difference, that's why the police are supposed to be better. No matter how many community leaders come out and call for peace, when the situation is already primed to explode over years a spark can make it explode.

 

maybe it is me and that i am misreading it. but i see you painting all cops as such, and that is not the case.

[LDF]

Yeah but if they union wasn't so strong, a cop that's an asshole could be fired for being an asshole. Instead it requires numerous steps and/or serious violations of police conduct to get rid of bad cops. Is that THE reason? No. But it certainly doesn't help.

i agree and disagree. i can see the importance of a union, but when a cop is tried or investigated by the internal affairs, that ruling is a lot more severe and harsher penalties comes from that.