The White Sox Looming Decision

[Dick Allen]

Basically all of this does the exact same error you said you can't do a moment ago.

 

And no, neither Coop nor Steverson are good candidates to replace this manager and I am genuinely starting to wonder based on the starting rotation if Coop's methods are tiring out in this city. However, how can you put heat on the pitching coach? As you said, "the bullpen is nails and that's 100% not going to change" so that's clearly a huge success for the pitching coach right?

I am not suggesting firing anybody.

 

I have suggested the White Sox ride out the storm. I am actually one of the dopes that thinks 140 games is enough to get things turned around. I pointed out the 2001 White Sox .They started out 8-19, and at one point were 14-29. They still won 83 games. Jerry Manuel didn't get fired.

[caulfield12]

I am not suggesting firing anybody.

 

I have suggested the White Sox ride out the storm. I am actually one of the dopes that thinks 140 games is enough to get things turned around. I pointed out the 2001 White Sox .They started out 8-19, and at one point were 14-29. They still won 83 games. Jerry Manuel didn't get fired.

 

 

Gee, that's probably because Frank Thomas was out with an achilles' problem, Wells was out for nearly the whole season....Jose Canseco was playing regularly and we were breaking in like 8 rookie or 2nd year pitchers.

 

But totally similar situation with 2015...if you consider it wasn't anything alike.

 

And the example given was a team that didn't come close to making the playoffs.

 

The Indians that year were starting to show their age and the Twins were the huge surprise out of the gate. You didn't have a four time AL Central Division team with a huge payroll and the best hitter in baseball, as well as the team that came one out and Madison Bumgarner away from winning the World Series.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Gee, that's probably because Frank Thomas was out with an achilles' problem, Wells was out for nearly the whole season....Jose Canseco was playing regularly and we were breaking in like 8 rookie or 2nd year pitchers.

 

But totally similar situation with 2015...if you consider it wasn't anything alike.

 

And the example given was a team that didn't come close to making the playoffs.

 

The Indians that year were starting to show their age and the Twins were the huge surprise out of the gate. You didn't have a four time AL Central Division team with a huge payroll and the best hitter in baseball, as well as the team that came one out and Madison Bumgarner away from winning the World Series.

Gee, guess what, they came back without Frank Thomas and without David Wells. They were 15 games out on May 25th. 4 weeks later they were 8 out.

 

I guess Detroit is in no danger of showing its age. And for all the Madison Bumgarner away from a WS, they were also an unlikely 4 run come back in the 8th inning of the wild card game from us ever having to hear how a team that had not made the playoffs for 30 years is now the model all teams should follow. The Royals haven't won squat.

 

And the example was a team that finished 2 games out of the playoffs if they were determined like they are today. And the example was 14-29 vs. 8-14. That would be another 6-15 stretch to tie.

 

There is no doubt in my mind you prefer White Sox losses to wins.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Gee, guess what, they came back without Frank Thomas and without David Wells. They were 15 games out on May 25th. 4 weeks later they were 8 out.

 

I guess Detroit is in no danger of showing its age. And for all the Madison Bumgarner away from a WS, they were also an unlikely 4 run come back in the 8th inning of the wild card game from us ever having to hear how a team that had not made the playoffs for 30 years is now the model all teams should follow. The Royals haven't won squat.

 

And the example was a team that finished 2 games out of the playoffs if they were determined like they are today. And the example was 14-29 vs. 8-14. That would be another 6-15 stretch to tie.

 

 

That team had the benefit of the doubt being one removed from an amazing and entertaining season (and playoff appearance) filled with brawls and offense.

 

This year's team, seven years removed from 2008, is going to be abandoned by 80% of fans if they fall to 14-29. You might have to change your name to Dick Quixote by the end of the September.

 

 

Victor Martinez and Verlander are breaking down and they're still in first place and 8 games over .500. They also have one of the best pitchers in Price (he came out and dominated KC on the road when they'd lost the first two of a four game series), a very good 2 guy in Anibal Sanchez and Soria has been excellent.

 

Offensively, JD Martinez was very hot before cooling, Gose is improved, Cespedes is on fire, Castellanos has warmed up....Iglesias still has one of the top 20-30 OPS lines in all of baseball and plays stellar defense, Rajai Davis is a very solid fourth outfielder....then you have Kinsler and Cabrera at the top of their games.

 

So a very dangerous and deep offense despite Avila and Martinez...and not all that old, other than Victor and Justin. Leading or close to leading the AL in stolen bases. They're a lot more athletic than some of those plodding, one base at a time teams we remember from almost a decade ago.

Edited May 5, 2015 by caulfield12

[shysocks]

And for all the Madison Bumgarner away from a WS, they were also an unlikely 4 run come back in the 8th inning of the wild card game from us ever having to hear how a team that had not made the playoffs for 30 years is now the model all teams should follow. The Royals haven't won squat.

Sig-worthy.

[ILMOU]

Certain posters, and their feuds, are making this place damn near intolerable.

[LDF]

Certain posters, and their feuds, are making this place damn near intolerable.

its all good, most of the time i am in there, in the mix. so i can and do read the post.

 

they do come up with some interesting things.

[GreatScott82]

If we're having this discussion at the end of May then it would make sense to me. Yeah, we suck right now but again: it's been a month. April at that.

 

The 2005 Sox were picked to finish fourth; granted, they came out blazing and never looked back (until September) but people were excited about this team for a reason, including the players themselves. I'm not giving up on them just yet.

I'm not giving up on the team, but i did give up on the manager. If Hahn seriously wants to contend in 2015- he makes a change now. The season can still be salvaged but this team needs a new vocal leader at the top.

[RockRaines]

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/...stand-white-sox

 

On Monday, fans already were calling for a managerial change. The Sox’ front office was not a happy place Monday, but firing Ventura isn’t likely under chairman Jerry Reinsdorf’s watch, the big-league executive said.

 

‘‘[Adam] LaRoche, [Alexei] Ramirez, Eaton, [Jose] Abreu, [John] Danks, Sale and Samardzija need to pick it up,’’ he said. ‘‘There is no way Jerry Reinsdorf is going to fire Robin Ventura. He’s too loyal.’’

 

Great, we're probably headed for a "lame duck," lost season. If nothing else, a new manager when the team is psychologically out of the race could at least give the front office a better read on how the team will perform going forward...how much of it is lack of talent/aging veterans and how much of it is attributable to some other variable or "human factor."

What "Big League Executive" gave that quote

[RockRaines]

This is more of a Reinsdorf issue than a Kenny Williams issue.

Jerry gave them more money, how is this his issue again?

[Greg Hibbard]

I really don't understand how anyone who has been watching the White Sox for a long time could think 22 games will decide this season.

 

It's not just 2001, there are tons of other examples, both ways. One need look no further than 2006 or 2000 to see a really hot team cool way off in the second half.

 

The next 30 are crucial. If we finish the first 50 games around .500 I could still see us winning 85-90 games.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Jerry gave them more money, how is this his issue again?

 

 

It's not this way as much anymore. Kenny Williams wanted to draft high upside athletes and Jerry Reinsdorf didn't want to spend $$ in the draft. What ends up happening is drafting the Jared Mitchell's and Keenyn Walker's of the world. The White Sox never maximized their opportunities via the draft in the mid to late 2000's and their system paid for it. But hey, they always had the cash laying around to sign guys like Juan Pierre.

[LDF]

I really don't understand how anyone who has been watching the White Sox for a long time could think 22 games will decide this season.

 

It's not just 2001, there are tons of other examples, both ways. One need look no further than 2006 or 2000 to see a really hot team cool way off in the second half.

 

The next 30 are crucial. If we finish the first 50 games around .500 I could still see us winning 85-90 games.

 

it is just frustration and venting. the fans, esp me, are angry and feed up. however that was yesterday.

 

today start a new time.

[Soxfest]

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/...stand-white-sox

 

On Monday, fans already were calling for a managerial change. The Sox’ front office was not a happy place Monday, but firing Ventura isn’t likely under chairman Jerry Reinsdorf’s watch, the big-league executive said.

 

‘‘[Adam] LaRoche, [Alexei] Ramirez, Eaton, [Jose] Abreu, [John] Danks, Sale and Samardzija need to pick it up,’’ he said. ‘‘There is no way Jerry Reinsdorf is going to fire Robin Ventura. He’s too loyal.’’

 

Great, we're probably headed for a "lame duck," lost season. If nothing else, a new manager when the team is psychologically out of the race could at least give the front office a better read on how the team will perform going forward...how much of it is lack of talent/aging veterans and how much of it is attributable to some other variable or "human factor."

Loyalty is killing the Sox again and again.

[Dick Allen]

It's not this way as much anymore. Kenny Williams wanted to draft high upside athletes and Jerry Reinsdorf didn't want to spend $$ in the draft. What ends up happening is drafting the Jared Mitchell's and Keenyn Walker's of the world. The White Sox never maximized their opportunities via the draft in the mid to late 2000's and their system paid for it. But hey, they always had the cash laying around to sign guys like Juan Pierre.

The White Sox gave Joe Borchard at the time, the biggest bonus in baseball history. He put up big numbers in the minors, was at one time I believe a top 15 prospect, but had as hard of a time making contact as many of the White Sox recent and current minor leaguers, and thus busted.

 

Frankly, I have a real problem with these guys they draft or trade for that strikeout so freaking much. It's one thing to fan 100 times, but these guys are fanning against many pitchers who will never sniff the major leagues at ridiculous rates. I really think guys with 35% k rates against minor league pitching are basically telling you the future. There are exceptions, but IMO very rare. That's the reason I personally feel Hawkins and Davidson have little chance of actually ever helping the White Sox win games.

[chitownsportsfan]

The Mariners are doing things the right way shaking things up only a month in after a disappointing start. The Sox will continue to sit on their hands as is their style. Lloyd was on the radio this morning in Seattle talking about how things clearly aren't working with his managing and the the players' play and that he's already changed things up in the routines. In addition they made a roster move -- they called up a guy from AAA today that is their equivalent of Carlos Sanchez.

 

Very frustrating to see Chicago's approach to their slow start contrasted with the team here in Seattle. I'd swap out RV for McClendon in a freaking heart beat.

[Lillian]

How do they not call up Sanchez? The offense is under performing so badly, and they have a guy at AAA who is leading the League. You have to bring him up.

It sends all the wrong messages, if they don't. It tells your Minor Leaguers that they aren't getting called up, no matter how well they perform. It tells your Big League

Roster that they will have job, no matter how badly they play and it tells the fans that the management either doesn't care, or doesn't know what it's doing, or both.

 

I'm not saying that Sanchez is going to be their savior, but that he has earned a chance to be the starter at second base. Micah has done little to demonstrate that he is ready,

and Carlos has been on fire since Spring Training. Moreover, his defense could go a long way toward making this team look more like a Major League team, in the field.

I still think Sanchez should be in the #2 hole, and move Melky down in the order, where he can drive in some runs.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Lillian

[southsider2k5]

How do they not call up Sanchez. The offense is under performing so badly, and they have a guy at AAA who is leading the League. You have to bring him up.

It sends all the wrong messages, if they don't. It tells your Minor Leaguers that they aren't getting called up, no matter how well they perform. It tells your Big League

Roster that they will have job, no matter how badly they play and it tells the fans that the management either doesn't care, or doesn't know what it's doing, or both.

 

I'm not saying that Sanchez is going to be their savior, but that he has earned a chance to be the starter at second base. Micah has done little to demonstrate that he is ready,

and Carlos has been on fire since Spring Training. Moreover, his defense could go a long way toward making this team look more like a Major League team.

I still think Sanchez should be in the #2 hole, and move Melky down in the order, where he can drive in some runs.

 

Because Micah Johnson isn't your problem. The problem is the guys you are paying the majority of the payroll too. So unless your plan is to bench Alexei, there isn't much point here.

[LDF]

How do they not call up Sanchez? The offense is under performing so badly, and they have a guy at AAA who is leading the League. You have to bring him up.

It sends all the wrong messages, if they don't. It tells your Minor Leaguers that they aren't getting called up, no matter how well they perform. It tells your Big League

Roster that they will have job, no matter how badly they play and it tells the fans that the management either doesn't care, or doesn't know what it's doing, or both.

 

I'm not saying that Sanchez is going to be their savior, but that he has earned a chance to be the starter at second base. Micah has done little to demonstrate that he is ready,

and Carlos has been on fire since Spring Training. Moreover, his defense could go a long way toward making this team look more like a Major League team, in the field.

I still think Sanchez should be in the #2 hole, and move Melky down in the order, where he can drive in some runs.

 

i don't know, maybe, it is me only who is saying this, maybe they didn't do this, b/c they would send a msg that they lost faith in the young player.

[Dick Allen]

It is funny the Sox are constantly criticized for rushing players, but a young guy whose OBP and OPS last year in a September call up was actually lower than Micah's ,needs to be called up, and be a difference maker.

[LDF]

Because Micah Johnson isn't your problem. The problem is the guys you are paying the majority of the payroll too. So unless your plan is to bench Alexei, there isn't much point here.

 

i am bad, i completely read over the MJ name. i thought he was ref to conor or eaton.

[chitownsportsfan]

Because Micah Johnson isn't your problem. The problem is the guys you are paying the majority of the payroll too. So unless your plan is to bench Alexei, there isn't much point here.

 

Micah Johnson is below replacement and made a critical error in the last ball game. He certainly isn't part of the solution. You have an above average defensive 2B that has done nothing but earn a spot on this 25 man roster and instead they handed it to a guy that hasn't done jack s*** above A ball.

 

And they wonder why guys always under perform. Maybe make them prove something in AAA first. Oh wait, Sanchez is doing just that and can't get a roster spot. s*** is f***ed up and bulls*** man.

[flavum]

On the Micah/Sanchez thing...this may be the last week for a lot of things. 22 games in, it would be a panic move to send down a rookie unless he's completely lost or an asshole.

 

They're starting a 6-game homestand tonight that could decide some things. Let them play it out.

[Y2Jimmy0]

How do they not call up Sanchez? The offense is under performing so badly, and they have a guy at AAA who is leading the League. You have to bring him up.

It sends all the wrong messages, if they don't. It tells your Minor Leaguers that they aren't getting called up, no matter how well they perform. It tells your Big League

Roster that they will have job, no matter how badly they play and it tells the fans that the management either doesn't care, or doesn't know what it's doing, or both.

 

I'm not saying that Sanchez is going to be their savior, but that he has earned a chance to be the starter at second base. Micah has done little to demonstrate that he is ready,

and Carlos has been on fire since Spring Training. Moreover, his defense could go a long way toward making this team look more like a Major League team, in the field.

I still think Sanchez should be in the #2 hole, and move Melky down in the order, where he can drive in some runs.

 

 

Giving up on Micah Johnson this soon would be a mistake. They won't do that.

[chitownsportsfan]

i don't know, maybe, it is me only who is saying this, maybe they didn't do this, b/c they would send a msg that they lost faith in the young player.

 

They never should have had faith in him in the first place is the problem. After the first week for spring he hit under .250 the rest of the way and made several fielding blunders as well. He struggled in the high minors.

 

You know the definition of insanity -- it's the Sox' approach to position player development. Rush them, it will work!

Edited May 5, 2015 by chitownsportsfan