The White Sox Looming Decision

[southsider2k5]

Micah Johnson is below replacement and made a critical error in the last ball game. He certainly isn't part of the solution. You have an above average defensive 2B that has done nothing but earn a spot on this 25 man roster and instead they handed it to a guy that hasn't done jack s*** above A ball.

 

And they wonder why guys always under perform. Maybe make them prove something in AAA first. Oh wait, Sanchez is doing just that and can't get a roster spot. s*** is f***ed up and bulls*** man.

 

Hey wait, you are back?

[Dick Allen]

Micah Johnson is below replacement and made a critical error in the last ball game. He certainly isn't part of the solution. You have an above average defensive 2B that has done nothing but earn a spot on this 25 man roster and instead they handed it to a guy that hasn't done jack s*** above A ball.

 

And they wonder why guys always under perform. Maybe make them prove something in AAA first. Oh wait, Sanchez is doing just that and can't get a roster spot. s*** is f***ed up and bulls*** man.

.317/.393/.830 in AA.

 

I guess that is either jack s*** production or your knowledge is what you described his production above A ball.

[southsider2k5]

On the Micah/Sanchez thing...this may be the last week for a lot of things. 22 games in, it would be a panic move to send down a rookie unless he's completely lost or an asshole.

 

They're starting a 6-game homestand tonight that could decide some things. Let them play it out.

 

Fans specialize in panic. The reality is that Micah Johnson means little. If the stars on this team don't start playing like stars, Carlos Sanchez could come up here and hit 1.000, and it won't matter. Though just for kicks... This is Sanchez's call up, versus Johnson's call up. Can you tell which is which?

 

.246/.317/.263/.581 67 OPS+ -0.2 DWAR

.250/.269/.300/.569 62 OPS+ -0.1 DWAR

 

[chitownsportsfan]

.317/.393/.830 in AA.

 

I guess that is either jack s*** production or your knowledge is what you described his production above A ball.

 

The cherries you pick are so sweet. As if haven't looked at his b-ref page a hundred times looking for any reason he should be on this club. 120 PA at above average median age for the league (23)

 

How about a much larger sample in "never been farther away from MLB" AAA:

 

275 .314 .370 / .684, .968 fielding percentage.

Edited May 5, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Balta1701]

Fans specialize in panic. The reality is that Micah Johnson means little. If the stars on this team don't start playing like stars, Carlos Sanchez could come up here and hit 1.000, and it won't matter. Though just for kicks... This is Sanchez's call up, versus Johnson's call up. Can you tell which is which?

 

.246/.317/.263/.581 67 OPS+ -0.2 DWAR

.250/.269/.300/.569 62 OPS+ -0.1 DWAR

So you're saying that Micah deserves to be sent down just like Sanchez was?

[Lillian]

As I said; Sanchez is not going to be the savior. The point is that there should be an open competition for that job, and Carlos has done all he can to win it.

Of course, one of the two is going to be disappointed. That's tough. Get over it. Micah can spend some time in AAA, where he has not yet had a full season,

and reward Carlos for his outstanding effort. It shouldn't be that hard for Micah to appreciate that his teammate has earned a shot.

 

Here is another thing to consider. Johnson's role is to bat 9TH and try to get on and steal some bases. He isn't getting on base often enough to be the difference maker, that

he will hopefully become. Sanchez can play a much important role, right now, as the number 2 hitter, where he has been most of the time. There, his switch hitting, offensive

production can have more of an impact, by getting on base for the heart of the order. He has demonstrated his ability to put the bat on the ball, from both sides of the plate.

And, to reiterate, it would afford the Sox an opportunity to try to get more run production out of Melky. That is something that they sorely need.

 

Shoring up the defense is yet another plus that they gain with Carlos at second.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Lillian

[Dick Allen]

The cherries you pick are so sweet. 120 PA at above average median age for the league (23)

 

How about a much larger sample in "never been farther away from MLB" AAA:

 

275 .314 .370 / .684, .968 fielding percentage.

Which also means AAA has never been closer to AA.

 

And when someone says he hasn't done jack s*** above A ball, then points out Sanchez this season who has less plate appearances Micah had in what you erroneously termed cherry picking, it is easy to see why your posts can only be laughed at.

[Dick Allen]

As I said; Sanchez is not going to be the savior. The point is that there should be an open competition for that job, and Carlos has done all he can to win it.

Of course, one of the two is going to be disappointed. That's tough. Get over it. Micah can spend some time in AAA, where he has not yet had a full season,

and reward Carlos for his outstanding effort. It shouldn't be that hard for Micah to appreciate that his teammate has earned a shot.

 

Here is another thing to consider. Johnson's role is to bat 9TH and try to get on and steal some bases. He isn't getting on base often enough to be the difference maker, that

he will hopefully become. Sanchez can play a much important role, as the number 2 hitter, where he has been most of the time. There, his switch hitting, offensive production

can make more of an impact than a 9TH place hitter. He has demonstrated his ability to put the bat on the ball, from both sides of the plate. And, to reiterate, it would afford

the Sox an opportunity to try to get more run production out of Melky. That is something that they sorely need.

Carlos Sanchez, like Jake Elmore, is not going to be the White Sox #2 hitter.

[chitownsportsfan]

Fans specialize in panic. The reality is that Micah Johnson means little. If the stars on this team don't start playing like stars, Carlos Sanchez could come up here and hit 1.000, and it won't matter. Though just for kicks... This is Sanchez's call up, versus Johnson's call up. Can you tell which is which?

 

.246/.317/.263/.581 67 OPS+ -0.2 DWAR

.250/.269/.300/.569 62 OPS+ -0.1 DWAR

 

The difference is that Sanchez put up, in a full AAA season, a 111 wRC+ -- as one of the youngest players in the league. Micah Johnson, at 2 full year years ahead of Micah in age, struggled majorly in AAA at the dish. This doesn't even mention the huge defensive upgrade that Sanchez brings over Micah.

 

Sanchez is two years younger than Micah. I'm really not sure why that hardly ever gets mentioned. It's a clear point in Sanchez' favor.

 

I will ask this question: would any other org other than the Sox have promoted Micah this spring over Sanchez? I imagine the Royals wouldn't even have had a decision to make. The Sox don't value defense and they over value raw speed. It's been obvious for almost a decade.

Edited May 5, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Balta1701]

The difference is that Sanchez put up, in a full AAA season, a 111 wRC+ -- as one of the youngest players in the league. Micah Johnson, at 2 full year years ahead of Micah in age, struggled majorly in AAA at the dish. This doesn't even mention the huge defensive upgrade that Sanchez brings over Micah.

 

Sanchez is two years younger than Micah. I'm really not sure why that hardly ever gets mentioned. It's a clear point in Sanchez' favor.

 

I will ask this question: would any other org other than the Sox have promoted Micah this spring over Sanchez? I imagine the Royals wouldn't even have had a decision to make. The Sox don't value defense and they over value raw speed. It's been obvious for almost a decade.

Are we genuinely sure about the bolded? IIRC Sanchez went down and immediately had a multi-error game.

 

But I do agree with you, pretty much every other organization in baseball would have given Micah more time in the minors.

[Dick Allen]

The difference is that Sanchez put up, in a full AAA season, a 111 wRC+ -- as one of the youngest players in the league. Micah Johnson, at 2 full year years ahead of Micah in age, struggled majorly in AAA at the dish. This doesn't even mention the huge defensive upgrade that Sanchez brings over Micah.

 

Sanchez is two years younger than Micah. I'm really not sure why that hardly ever gets mentioned. It's a clear point in Sanchez' favor.

 

I will ask this question: would any other org other than the Sox have promoted Micah this spring over Sanchez? I imagine the Royals wouldn't even have had a decision to make. The Sox don't value defense and they over value raw speed. It's been obvious for almost a decade.

The White Sox have overvalued raw speed for almost a decade?

 

Now that is funny.

[Lillian]

Regardless of what we think, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the front office is contemplating this exact.move, and maybe even making these same arguments.

It will be interesting to see what they decide to do, and how long they wait to make the decision.

[Balta1701]

Regardless of what we think, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the front office is contemplating this exact.move, and maybe even making these same arguments.

It will be interesting to see what they decide to do, and how long they wait to make the decision.

The unfortunate part of making the decision to "Send Micah back down" would be that it's a vote of no-confidence in Micah and if you're going to be the team that promotes people aggressively it can actually hurt the kid's development to change course in the middle.

[southsider2k5]

The difference is that Sanchez put up, in a full AAA season, a 111 wRC+ -- as one of the youngest players in the league. Micah Johnson, at 2 full year years ahead of Micah in age, struggled majorly in AAA at the dish. This doesn't even mention the huge defensive upgrade that Sanchez brings over Micah.

 

Sanchez is two years younger than Micah. I'm really not sure why that hardly ever gets mentioned. It's a clear point in Sanchez' favor.

 

I will ask this question: would any other org other than the Sox have promoted Micah this spring over Sanchez? I imagine the Royals wouldn't even have had a decision to make. The Sox don't value defense and they over value raw speed. It's been obvious for almost a decade.

 

And despite all of that, Johnson is actually putting up better numbers, and nearly identical defensive numbers, to what Sanchez did in the majors.

 

And looking deeper into the numbers, instead of just using age as an oversimplistic crutch, Sanchez actually is in his third stint at AAA. He has 1107 PA's in triple A alone. Johnson has 1391 PA's for his entire minor league career. Sanchez actually has about 2000 minor league PA's compared to Johnson's nearly 1400. So while Sanchez is young in terms of age, Johnson is actually younger in terms of actual professional experience. Even including Sanchez's insane start in his 3rd stint in AAA, his OPS is only about 20 points higher than what an injured Johnson put up in his short time at AAA last year (.684 vs

.702)

 

Now I know that this is Chicago and the fans love the back up quarterback more than the actual quarterback because of the unknown factor, but the reality is offensively there is going to be very little difference between Johnson and Sanchez. Johnson is going to get a plus because of his speed, Sanchez will because of his defense. Then again, Sanchez has 3 errors already at AAA, while Johnson has 1 in a similar amount of time in the majors.

[chitownsportsfan]

Are we genuinely sure about the bolded? IIRC Sanchez went down and immediately had a multi-error game.

 

But I do agree with you, pretty much every other organization in baseball would have given Micah more time in the minors.

 

If the pro Micah and pro Sanchez camps can't agree that Sanchez' defense is better than we'll never agree on anything. Every single scouting report on Carlos Sanchez starts with "solid glove...no hit". He was spectacular in his cup of coffee last year in the field. Fangraphs had him .6 dWAR in just under 240 innings. His bat sucked, but that's a separate point. He can also play SS and give Alexei more days off without relying on Beckham, who has the range of Jeter at this point probably.

[southsider2k5]

Are we genuinely sure about the bolded? IIRC Sanchez went down and immediately had a multi-error game.

 

But I do agree with you, pretty much every other organization in baseball would have given Micah more time in the minors.

 

The guy who comes to mind first is Billy Hamilton.

[chitownsportsfan]

And despite all of that, Johnson is actually putting up better numbers, and nearly identical defensive numbers, to what Sanchez did in the majors.

 

And looking deeper into the numbers, instead of just using age as an oversimplistic crutch, Sanchez actually is in his third stint at AAA. He has 1107 PA's in triple A alone. Johnson has 1391 PA's for his entire minor league career. Sanchez actually has about 2000 minor league PA's compared to Johnson's nearly 1400. So while Sanchez is young in terms of age, Johnson is actually younger in terms of actual professional experience. Even including Sanchez's insane start in his 3rd stint in AAA, his OPS is only about 20 points higher than what an injured Johnson put up in his short time at AAA last year (.684 vs

.702)

 

Now I know that this is Chicago and the fans love the back up quarterback more than the actual quarterback because of the unknown factor, but the reality is offensively there is going to be very little difference between Johnson and Sanchez. Johnson is going to get a plus because of his speed, Sanchez will because of his defense. Then again, Sanchez has 3 errors already at AAA, while Johnson has 1 in a similar amount of time in the majors.

 

Age is an over simplistic crutch? It's one of the most critical scouting tools. Sanchez gets punished for being 2 years younger than Micah and having more experience in pro baseball? I cannot, for the life of my, understand this argument.

 

You don't get extra points for being raw at 24. In fact, you should get deducted for it because baseball players don't usually improve much at 24 as they do at 22 regardless of how much baseball they have played.

 

Why in the world would you ding Sanchez for having more AAA experience at a younger age and putting up (for the most part) better numbers? It makes no sense.

 

Having 3 fulls seasons in AAA before you turn 23 is a positive, not a drawback. When you're one of the youngest players in the league a 111 wRC+ is incredibly impressive for a glove first SS/2B.

 

[chitownsportsfan]

The guy who comes to mind first is Billy Hamilton.

 

He stole 75 of 90 bases in AAA at age 22. He was a universally regarded top 50 prospect (or at least top 100) for his entire career. He has a pedigree and translated his speed into real production in AAA. He got called up because he was ready.

[southsider2k5]

Age is an over simplistic crutch? It's one of the most critical scouting tools. Sanchez gets punished for being 2 years younger than Micah and having more experience in pro baseball? I cannot, for the life of my, understand this argument.

 

You don't get extra points for being raw at 24. In fact, you should get deducted for it because baseball players don't usually improve much at 24 as they do at 22 regardless of how much baseball they have played.

 

Why in the world would you ding Sanchez for having more AAA experience at a younger age and putting up (for the most part) better numbers? It makes no sense.

 

Having 3 fulls seasons in AAA before you turn 23 is a positive, not a drawback. When you're one of the youngest players in the league a 111 wRC+ is incredibly impressive for a glove first SS/2B.

 

Hawkins, Courtney.

[Dick Allen]

If Rick Hahn found another GM as high on Carlos Sanchez as a few here, he would be insane not to trade him.

[chitownsportsfan]

Hawkins, Courtney.

 

Has been young at every stop? Is in AA as a 21 year old? When Micah was still in high A ball? I mean, this is not the example you want to use.. If anything the ONLY THING keeping Hawkins in top 10 Sox prospect lists the last couple years is his age. If he was 24 he'd be Joe Borchard or Trayce Thompson status -- almost no longer a prospect.

 

But, because he's 21, he gets more time and his stats are put into context.

[southsider2k5]

Hawkins, Courtney.

 

And just for references sake, which I am sure you will ignore... I think you are way too high on Sanchez, and way too low on Johnson. Offensively they will pretty much end up being the same players, just like they have through their minor league careers. Sanchez playing a level for the third time should be getting it. Johnson is already putting up the numbers that Sanchez did, which should count for something as well.

 

Honestly I think this is turning into the McCowning of Carlos Sanchez. He's a guy. He is not going to save this team. People are looking at him irrationally because he is hot in Charlotte, not because of anything in his tools set that will be some kind of plus tool in the majors.

[chitownsportsfan]

If Rick Hahn found another GM as high on Carlos Sanchez as a few here, he would be insane not to trade him.

 

I think Carlos Sanchez is probably a 1 to 1.5 WAR player. I don't think he's any great shakes. What I do know is that he will catch the ball and occasionally save a run with his glove. Sounds pretty damn good to me after this s*** show defense the past few years.

[southsider2k5]

If Rick Hahn found another GM as high on Carlos Sanchez as a few here, he would be insane not to trade him.

 

A perfect example...Eduardo Escobar to the Twins. Very similar players and ceilings.

[chitownsportsfan]

And just for references sake, which I am sure you will ignore... I think you are way too high on Sanchez, and way too low on Johnson. Offensively they will pretty much end up being the same players, just like they have through their minor league careers. Sanchez playing a level for the third time should be getting it. Johnson is already putting up the numbers that Sanchez did, which should count for something as well.

 

Honestly I think this is turning into the McCowning of Carlos Sanchez. He's a guy. He is not going to save this team. People are looking at him irrationally because he is hot in Charlotte, not because of anything in his tools set that will be some kind of plus tool in the majors.

 

I just posted I think he's a 1 to 1.5 WAR player. I don't think Micah Johnson will be better than that this year. I've been consistent on this point for months now. Respond to my point about Hawkins, who is literally the last Sox prospect you should have cited for your point about age.

Edited May 5, 2015 by chitownsportsfan