The White Sox Looming Decision

[fathom]

KW's fingerprints were all over the offseason moves. They look like Williams' philosophy, executed by Hahn, to me. ( how many times, how many times, has Williams loaded the Wagon for his "Ace" starter? ).

The only really productive trade Williams made as GM since 2008 was for Youkalis.

The only really top defensive team we've had was 2005; and then we gutted the defense.

I don't know what Hahn can or can't do because I don't think we've seen it, other than the execution of the trades, which has been fine.

 

I do think the org was way too stubborn about Avi's bad defense and not moving him to LF this past offseason. I bet they would have done that if they acquired Heyward.

[southsider2k5]

I know I said this once before already (and ss2k5 is saying it, too), but I think it needs to be reiterated: This team's abject failure (so far) is NOT due to poor roster construction/spending on the bullpen/Melky Cabrera, it's due to ALL the players playing poorly. The issue isn't whether or not we could handle carrying Micah Johnson and Connor Gillaspie, it's that we could NOT handle disappointing/mediocre/bad versions of Abreu, Sale, Samardzija, Quintana, Eaton, etc. The whole thing was only ever going to work out if we assumed those guys' star performances were in the bank.

 

I don't blame Rick Hahn for those guys being bad. And since those guys HAVE been bad, I can't form an intelligent opinion on whether or not carrying Tyler Flowers was a significant transgression in the end.

 

Yeah, until our star play like stars, and our good players like good players, it doesn't matter what our bad players do.

[LDF]

KW's fingerprints were all over the offseason moves. They look like Williams' philosophy, executed by Hahn, to me. ( how many times, how many times, has Williams loaded the Wagon for his "Ace" starter? ).

The only really productive trade Williams made as GM since 2008 was for Youkalis.

The only really top defensive team we've had was 2005; and then we gutted the defense.

I don't know what Hahn can or can't do because I don't think we've seen it, other than the execution of the trades, which has been fine.

i would also say the recommendation of signing Jose A.

[caulfield12]

I'm coming around to the fact that Carlos Sanchez will end up starting, disappointing everyone who expected him to continue his AAA hitting form (disregarding his 700ish minor league OPS history and 100+ AB's for the Sox at the tail end of 2014) and that Micah Johnson instead ends up being Billy Hamilton-Lite for the A's, lol.

 

And emerges as Marcus Semien's DP partner for the next half decade.

 

Well, because it's the White Sox.

[southsider2k5]

That is also why the Sox are in shape they are in. JR is becoming a detriment to the teams overall health every year that goes by.

 

Yet Jerry owns even more of the Bulls, and they continue to fly high. How does that work, exactly? Getting old only hurts in baseball, but helps in basketball?

[LDF]

Perhaps true, but the point is that forcing "going for it" in 2015 was silly coming off of a 73 win season. It also caused the Sox to do other things like putting together a poor bench...AGAIN so as not to risk young players, etc.

 

the poor bench was going to happen no matter what. they were going to use rethreads for those. so pls don't kid yourself of anything else.

[Balta1701]

Yet Jerry owns even more of the Bulls, and they continue to fly high. How does that work, exactly?

This is the single most positive thing you've said about the management and front office of the Chicago Bulls in ~4 years.

[fathom]

And emerges as Marcus Semien's DP partner for the next half decade.

 

that would be the worst defensive combo in history

[caulfield12]

I do think the org was way too stubborn about Avi's bad defense and not moving him to LF this past offseason. I bet they would have done that if they acquired Heyward.

 

And we'd somehow be worse off with Heyward, because that would have meant trading Anderson and either Montas/Danish...and then we'd have that same hole to fill again next year.

 

If nothing else, the presence of Cabrera and Garcia keeps them from forcing guys like Anderson and Hawkins and even Trayce Thompson up to the major league level where they'd quickly be exposed (just like Viciedo).

[LDF]

Yet Jerry owns even more of the Bulls, and they continue to fly high. How does that work, exactly? Getting old only hurts in baseball, but helps in basketball?

 

getting good management. first hire 2 people to do the gm job until if starts to fall apart.

 

then get a kick arse coach.

[caulfield12]

that would be the worst defensive combo in history

 

 

Carney Lansford will fix them.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. And I don't think Micah could be hidden playing LF or CF in that huge stadium 81 games per year. They would run on him more than other teams ran on Pods or Juan Pierre (or J. Damon).

[Soxfest]

Yet Jerry owns even more of the Bulls, and they continue to fly high. How does that work, exactly? Getting old only hurts in baseball, but helps in basketball?

There is a difference IF Tibs gets fired a Ex Bulls player will not get the job by default, Sox fire Ventura like you said yourself someone in Sox org now will get the job. JR with the Sox is way too loyal in keeping guys around to collect checks for a lifetime.

[LDF]

this is how i see the events unfolding from last yr in the off season till now.

 

Hahn is responsible for the getting of the majority of the players on fa's. that is not kw mo.

 

stop the rebuilding in dec with a few players short. that is kw mo.

 

getting rethreads for pitching and mi, meaning penny and beckham. kw mo

 

taking a gamble on the players we have without upgrading. kw mo

 

JS trade..... i realy don't know. you pick,.

[Dick Allen]

Free agent or trade acquistion hasn't worked out.....blame KW

Secondbaseman throws a DP ball into LF....blame Robin

 

 

Now that's the "accountablility" people have posted about for years.

[fathom]

Carney Lansford will fix them.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. And I don't think Micah could be hidden playing LF or CF in that huge stadium 81 games per year. They would run on him more than other teams ran on Pods or Juan Pierre (or J. Damon).

 

Is your goal to name every player in baseball since 1990 today?

[fathom]

Free agent or trade acquistion hasn't worked out.....blame KW

Secondbaseman throws a DP ball into LF....blame Robin

 

 

Now that's the "accountablility" people have posted about for years.

 

Who's to blame for Sale injuring his foot by doing something he probably wasn't supposed to? How about Samardzija focusing more on his rivalry with Cain and the Royals this year instead of his breaking ball command? Quite simply, basically everyone but Robertson, Duke, Jennings and Avi have been a disappointment this year.

 

I said this a few weeks ago, but if this was the NBA, Sale's acted like the type of player that would end up requesting a trade.

Edited May 4, 2015 by fathom

[Bob Sacamano]

Personally, I do not want both Micah and Eaton starting in the same outfield. I'd rather just keep one and move the other. Their skillset is too similar and this team already lacks power (not that Melky has any homers but I'm just saying for now and the long run).

[caulfield12]

Regardless, it's totally worth pondering about your irrelevant tangent of Micah Johnson playing for the A's and their ballpark in a thread about the White Sox's lack of performance.

 

 

Do you really enjoy policing my posts so much...?

 

Sigh.

 

Please just block me or whatever so I don't have to worry about upsetting you with "irrelevant" tangents. Your life would be so much easier and enjoyable, if it's REALLY that upsetting or bothersome. Life is too short. Really.

Edited May 4, 2015 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

You went the whole post without mentioning KW. Bravo.

 

You blame Kenny for picking Micah over Sanchez, a move that is nowhere near the forefront of this team's problems.

 

When you were asked to explain why Kenny Williams is a cancer and why that move reeks of KW you defer to Vince Coleman, Buddy Bell and assumptions on the organization's philosophy (Hahn?). Then onto Alexei/LaRoche and on... I guess if you can't defend your irrational assumptions you can always just change the subject.

 

What are you digging at? What do you want me to admit? That I speculated about KW's influence? Again, I continue to be suprised that you are a mod here. I have been nothing but cordial to you for weeks and you insulted me for no reason after 8 pages of good discussion and then when I answer you you continue to dig at....what exactly?

 

I have no f***ing idea who runs this club at the end of the day. Neither does anyone here unless they are JR or his family.

 

Given that, we can only surmise and use induction. I have surmised that Micah over Sanchez was KW. Why? Because KW has drafted a million Micah's and not a single one has ever panned out. The move reeks of his scouting stereotype hard on -- a track star on the baseball field.

[fathom]

Personally, I do not want both Micah and Eaton starting in the same outfield. I'd rather just keep one and move the other. Their skillset is too similar and this team already lacks power (not that Melky has any homers but I'm just saying for now and the long run).

 

If you have Johnson at 2nd and Eaton in CF, you better get a heck of a lot more power out of the 3rd base and RF spot. Also, if Anderson ends up playing SS with those guys, it's another position where minimal power is likely.

[LDF]

Who's to blame for Sale injuring his foot by doing something he probably wasn't supposed to? How about Samardzija focusing more on his rivalry with Cain and the Royals this year instead of his breaking ball command? Quite simply, basically everyone but Robertson, Duke, Jennings and Avi have been a disappointment this year.

 

I said this a few weeks ago, but if this was the NBA, Sale's acted like the type of player that would end up requesting a trade.

 

that is JR's, he owns the parking lot.

[caulfield12]

Personally, I do not want both Micah and Eaton starting in the same outfield. I'd rather just keep one and move the other. Their skillset is too similar and this team already lacks power (not that Melky has any homers but I'm just saying for now and the long run).

 

 

Especially with the lack of power from RF, 3B, SS/2B and catcher.

 

You can't afford another offensive black hole. Now if they had 3-4 guys putting up 25-35 homers or 80-85+ RBI's, that would be a totally different situation. But that's not reality for now.

 

If Anderson can't stay in the middle infield, he's the most logical one to shift to OF.

 

The problem with that is we're locked in with Cabrera in 2016-17 and/or that would mean the Avisail Garcia experiment (at least defensively), has failed.

 

I suppose Avi could be moved to DH full-time in 2017 if his bat holds up well enough.

[Dick Allen]

What are you digging at? What do you want me to admit? That I speculated about KW's influence? Again, I continue to be suprised that you are a mod here. I have been nothing but cordial to you for weeks and you insulted me for no reason after 8 pages of good discussion and then when I answer you you continue to dig at....what exactly?

 

I have no f***ing idea who runs this club at the end of the day. Neither does anyone here unless they are JR or his family.

 

Given that, we can only surmise and use induction. I have surmised that Micah over Sanchez was KW. Why? Because KW has drafted a million Micah's and not a single one has ever panned out. The move reeks of his scouting stereotype hard on -- a track star on the baseball field.

Kind of like Emilio Bonifacio.

[chitownsportsfan]

How did I insult you? I think you're just insecure. This is a message board, if you're going to make baseless points, you're going to be asked to back them up. I don't have a problem with you and don't pay attention to how cordial you've been but I do pay attention to you making silly proclamations based on your predisposed beliefs (See, KW/RV suck, Hahn that GOAT). Back up your posts and we can hold hands through this tough time.

 

 

When Caulfield calls you out for the same thing a post before mine I think it's pretty clear you're setting up strawman arguments and trying to antagonize posters. If you want to go through ever poster's history and call out everytime they are wrong and continue to hammer on the points you'll be a pretty busy man. Not only is that not how you moderate a forum it's trolling IMO.

 

I think Hahn is a very good GM and I think KW has wore out his welcome long ago. Those are my opinions man. If you want to argue those opinions are incorrect fine. But don't start out a post to me or anyone else with some macho guy online "I'm CALLING YOU OUT" BS.

 

I was arguing a very specific point about how the org values defense and you decided to turn it into a discussion about how I don't respond to criticism and my GM preference.

 

Get real I don't respond to vapid trolling and moronic arguments. There's a lot here to move past. I don't give a f*** about holding hands with you I simply was nice to you out of respect as your position as a mod and mine as a poster. If you want to turn every single discussion into a referendum on who gets the most points for making correct predictions -- well, that's about the farthest thing from a mod's job as possible.

 

Where's the guy that posted the "I have a bad feeling thread"? He should be awarded a million internet points.

Edited May 4, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[caulfield12]

How did I insult you? I think you're just insecure. This is a message board, if you're going to make baseless points, you're going to be asked to back them up. I don't have a problem with you and don't pay attention to how cordial you've been but I do pay attention to you making silly proclamations based on your predisposed beliefs (See, KW/RV suck, Hahn that GOAT). Back up your posts and we can hold hands through this tough time.

 

Jesus.

 

Should I go around correcting everyone's grammar as well?

 

There's a lot of people who annoy me as well, but I put up with them because it's a White Sox fans MESSAGE BOARD. It's supposed to be fun and enjoyable.

 

What has KW done since 2005 that makes him NOT SUCK?

 

If you have a predisposed belief (or non-predisposed, because everyone here, of course, doesn't have a single bias and analyzes statistics and players just as dispassionately as a FanGraphs algorithm) that he's so great, what's YOUR ARGUMENT?

 

 

Hahn doesn't suck. But he's not the savior, either.

 

Robertson and Duke needed to be added, Jennings has been fine or better than expected.

Micah Johnson was pushed too aggressively (and, once again...should we blame Hahn, KW or Ventura????????)

Samardzija didn't cause us to give up any great talent but he's obviously not enough to push the rotation over the top when the back end is terrible

Hahn wasted a lot of money on Bonifacio when he had 4-5 versions of that same player

LaRoche had too many similarities with Dunn, came from NL, and you shouldn't invest that much into a "win now" player at his age unless you're close enough to winning now, which MAY be in 2016 (or may not, now)

Melky Cabrera is the main questionable add...because of his age, the PED's, the fact he's not bringing plus offense or defense and he's getting older and we don't know the physiological effects of aforementioned PED's use on his body because we're not trained doctors

 

 

Get off your high horse.

 

Other than the minor leagues, I haven't seen anything that would make we want to come close to holding hands with you, lol.

 

 

We have Sale and Abreu to be proud about....and Quintana/Eaton/Avi to a lesser extent. Other than that, neither Hahn nor KW will be winning any awards because you actually have to produce on the field of play. And trotting out a subpar manager (and, once again...do we blame Reinsdorf, KW or Hahn) doesn't help matters, either. He's certainly not maximizing the talent of his roster, that's for sure.

Edited May 4, 2015 by caulfield12