Greg Walker ~ What have we learned?

[southsider2k5]

We dwarf the Twins, Indians and Royals as far as media rights fees.

 

Pretty comparable to DET. Which was a city absolutely devastated in 2008, moreso than any Midwestern and/or Rust Belt city fwiw.

 

Chicago metro population was estimated at 9.5 million after last census. Take the 1/3 of it that would apply to Sox, and you have about 3.2 million.

Detroit metro is 4.3 million, not counting Canada at all.

Minneapolis metro 3.8 million

Cleveland metro 3.5 million

KC 2.35 metro million

[caulfield12]

Chicago metro population was estimated at 9.5 million after last census. Take the 1/3 of it that would apply to Sox, and you have about 3.2 million.

Detroit metro is 4.3 million, not counting Canada at all.

Minneapolis metro 3.8 million

Cleveland metro 3.5 million

KC 2.35 metro million

 

 

That still doesnt address media rights, sponsorship opportunities with more corporate hq's located in Chicago....disposable income, etc.

 

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/

White Sox stilll arent far behind Detroit despite Tigers winning last four division championships, best pure hitter in baseball, best pitcher in Verlander before 2013-14, etc. Of course, the Tigers also lost nearly $21 million last year while the Sox were quite profitable.

Edited May 6, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Accountablility would be holding the people resposible accountable. Accountability should be a 2 way street. If you are going to blame someone if something doesn't go right, then you should give them credit when it does.

 

The White Sox have fired plenty of people. The easiest, cheapest thing to do is fire someone if it truly made your 9-14 team 14-9. But, if the people on the inside, who really know what is going on, deem that not to be the case, firing them isn't showing accountability, it is naming a scapegoat. There is no way the White Sox current problems are on one guy. There is no way when Andy Gonzalez and Darin Erstad and Corky Miller are in a major league line up, that the Sox not scoring many runs is because the hitting coach is bad at his job. I wish I still had an article a friend of mine sent me a couple years ago. It was a guy who was some sort of club soccer coach. Parents would spend tons of money getting their kids the "top of the line" coach, expecting college scholarships and perhaps professional paydays. His message was, no matter how much money you spend, no matter what reputation a coach has, the overwhelming chances are your kid is average, and will never be anything more than average. Save your money. The fact is, Vince Coleman isn't going to make Adam Eaton a guy that steals 70 bases. No hitting coach is going to make Tyler Flowers a second coming of Mike Piazza. Don Cooper can't make John Danks throw 95. No one said there is no accountability, but really, from the outside, not having access to their daily interactions, any fire someone for accountability issue makes little sense.

how can you bundle every little problem in a catalog of past problems and then title is accountability of that person.

 

the problem is, no matter how many smart poster can come up with the same blame and paint it different is beyond me.

 

the main problem, and i will call it the main lack of accountability stem from the GM and his boss. their main idea, which appears not to have change, is to do as little as the team can, use rethreads and paint it all sunny colors by the pr people.

 

[LDF]

That's at the heart of the Carlos Sanchez/Micah debate right now.

 

The concept of "firing" Micah for his performance so far when the same thing can never happen to John Danks, for example.

while many were, if i remember correctly, were angered at the selection of MJ over Sanchez, the point is, MJ is doing a good job, he can not be blame for this teams faults.

 

i feel as MJ is being blame for the whole core of problems. maybe i am wrong.

[Lillian]

No one should blame M. J. for this team´s poor start, and for my part, I´m not advocating ¨firing¨ him. The Sanchez vs. Johnson debate should focus more upon

rewarding the player who is currently demonstrating that he deserves a chance. What Sanchez has done in his first 100 at bats, this season, has earned him the

opportunity to play at the Major League Level, especially considering his defensive prowess.

[Texsox]

Just thinking in terms of organizations in general, not just baseball. Perhaps each of these guys accounts positive or negative to one game a season, that's a two game swing, three or four coaches and the manager could account for plus or minus 6 games, a 12 game swing if you will. That becomes significant.

 

As a high school coach I tell my middle school coaches that the lower the level, the greater the importance of coaching is. By the time the guys become professionals, coaching shouldn't be as critical. But learning the basic, developing good work habits, gaining confidence, are all best coaches early in their careers.

[southsider2k5]

No one should blame M. J. for this team´s poor start, and for my part, I´m not advocating ¨firing¨ him. The Sanchez vs. Johnson debate should focus more upon

rewarding the player who is currently demonstrating that he deserves a chance. What Sanchez has done in his first 100 at bats, this season, has earned him the

opportunity to play at the Major League Level, especially considering his defensive prowess.

 

Sanchez did get 100 ABs at the major league level to prove himself last year. Micah Johnson has actually put up better offensive numbers in his ABs this year, vs what Sanchez did in the majors this year. Johnson has a higher OPS and OPS+, and he has less k/BB and more BB/PA. Last I knew he was also leading the team in pitches seen per AB, which the White Sox are very sorely lacking in.

[Chisoxfn]

Sanchez did get 100 ABs at the major league level to prove himself last year. Micah Johnson has actually put up better offensive numbers in his ABs this year, vs what Sanchez did in the majors this year. Johnson has a higher OPS and OPS+, and he has less k/BB and more BB/PA. Last I knew he was also leading the team in pitches seen per AB, which the White Sox are very sorely lacking in.

Reality is, no one should have reached any significant conclusions over the 100 AB's that either of them have gotten to date. Conclusions that have been reached should have been by top scouts (or people following the skillsets) saying, they either have or don't have the tools ready to succeed. If you think they have the tools, than you can't reach a conclusion (good or bad) over the course of 100 at bats. I've long said I like Johnson more than Sanchez because he has a tool that makes him more unique. All that said, I wouldn't say Sanchez couldn't be a league average 2B based upon what we know about him. I've long thought Johnson had more upside and what I can't envision would be Sanchez being a well above average 2B.

[southsider2k5]

Reality is, no one should have reached any significant conclusions over the 100 AB's that either of them have gotten to date. Conclusions that have been reached should have been by top scouts (or people following the skillsets) saying, they either have or don't have the tools ready to succeed. If you think they have the tools, than you can't reach a conclusion (good or bad) over the course of 100 at bats. I've long said I like Johnson more than Sanchez because he has a tool that makes him more unique. All that said, I wouldn't say Sanchez couldn't be a league average 2B based upon what we know about him. I've long thought Johnson had more upside and what I can't envision would be Sanchez being a well above average 2B.

 

This is exactly how I feel about this situation.

[Texsox]

Reality is, no one should have reached any significant conclusions over the 100 AB's that either of them have gotten to date. Conclusions that have been reached should have been by top scouts (or people following the skillsets) saying, they either have or don't have the tools ready to succeed. If you think they have the tools, than you can't reach a conclusion (good or bad) over the course of 100 at bats. I've long said I like Johnson more than Sanchez because he has a tool that makes him more unique. All that said, I wouldn't say Sanchez couldn't be a league average 2B based upon what we know about him. I've long thought Johnson had more upside and what I can't envision would be Sanchez being a well above average 2B.

 

 

This is exactly how I feel about this situation.

 

I agree with one caveat from too many years of "upsides" that never materialize. There is a lot to be said about ability today, in tonight's lineup. I'm really weary of the excitement of a draft and then nothing really comes of it.

[Lillian]

I don´t want to hijack this thread, and we were all having this discussion elsewhere. However, since Carlos and Micah´s comparative performances at the Big League level have

been mentioned, it might be worth while to consider this. What Carlos did last year, during his call up, probably does not accurately reflect his ability, because he was so young.

 

When evaluating players his age, there should be some consideration given to his youth. He had just turned 22, when he was called up last year. That is very young

to be playing in the Majors. What should be noted is how well he is adjusting to the higher levels, and how much he is improving. Of course, it´s all subjective, but my

perception is that he is a quick study, and could very well justifiably be expected to perform better, if called up again, now as he approaches 23, which is still young, even at

AAA.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Lillian

[LDF]

I agree with one caveat from too many years of "upsides" that never materialize. There is a lot to be said about ability today, in tonight's lineup. I'm really weary of the excitement of a draft and then nothing really comes of it.

 

i can say, before, and at what time am i talking about, before, so for this, before the Hahn regime, i was never really been overly impress with the sox draft, let me further say also, before there was an internet world, we as fans couldn't follow players / prospects and their progress or the rate and judge players profiles.

 

except for a few players, i would like to know the % of each team, who had wost selections, other than the sox.

 

accountability, i will let you decide that. who's fault and who were the bosses.

[LDF]

I don´t want to hijack this thread, and we were all having this discussion elsewhere. However, since Carlos and Micah´s comparative performances at the Big League level have

been mentioned, it might be worth while to consider this. What Carlos did last year, during his call up, probably does not accurately reflect his ability, because he was so young.

 

When evaluating players his age, there should be some consideration given to his youth. He had just turned 22, when he was called up last year. That is very young

to be playing in the Majors. What should be noted is how well he is adjusting to the higher levels, and how much he is improving. Of course, it´s all subjective, but my

perception is that he is a quick study, and could very well justifiably be expected to perform better, if called up again, now as he approaches 23, which is still young, even at

AAA.

 

good point, but let me say, this is not a condemnation of either MJ or Sanchez, but a statement that these two are the best at this time for the sox. each has a slew of backers and each are making a point.

 

this, for me, is the first step of a long road of a future that i hope will include many more WS rings and celebrations.

[Butter Parque]

Your major league hitting coach is only as good as the coaches and instructors in the minor leagues. Its incumbent upon the organization from rookie ball-up to harp on a solid approach, patience, taking pitches, etc. If they need to learn that at the major league level, you're in trouble.

[southsider2k5]

I don´t want to hijack this thread, and we were all having this discussion elsewhere. However, since Carlos and Micah´s comparative performances at the Big League level have

been mentioned, it might be worth while to consider this. What Carlos did last year, during his call up, probably does not accurately reflect his ability, because he was so young.

 

When evaluating players his age, there should be some consideration given to his youth. He had just turned 22, when he was called up last year. That is very young

to be playing in the Majors. What should be noted is how well he is adjusting to the higher levels, and how much he is improving. Of course, it´s all subjective, but my

perception is that he is a quick study, and could very well justifiably be expected to perform better, if called up again, now as he approaches 23, which is still young, even at

AAA.

 

It is worth pointing out that Johnson as a college guy is not much older than Sanchez, and he has WAY less in terms of professional ABs. Sanchez in in his 3rd go around at AAA.

[Balta1701]

Chicago metro population was estimated at 9.5 million after last census. Take the 1/3 of it that would apply to Sox, and you have about 3.2 million.

Detroit metro is 4.3 million, not counting Canada at all.

Minneapolis metro 3.8 million

Cleveland metro 3.5 million

KC 2.35 metro million

Maybe um, the problem is that we're stuck with only 1/3 of the population?

[LDF]

Maybe um, the problem is that we're stuck with only 1/3 of the population?

 

and that is stretching it.

[Eminor3rd]

Have things really changed? The org is still a black hole when it comes to OBP.

[LDF]

Have things really changed? The org is still a black hole when it comes to OBP.

 

for this discussion only and at this time, i am going to flip my position.

 

ok, what org is not going to have a black hole?

 

this team has its share and much more of holes to address, what hole can be sacrifice, for the present to jump start this team.

[Texsox]

i can say, before, and at what time am i talking about, before, so for this, before the Hahn regime, i was never really been overly impress with the sox draft, let me further say also, before there was an internet world, we as fans couldn't follow players / prospects and their progress or the rate and judge players profiles.

 

except for a few players, i would like to know the % of each team, who had wost selections, other than the sox.

 

accountability, i will let you decide that. who's fault and who were the bosses.

 

BTW, and since I have nothing to do with it it's not self serving; futuresox is amazing to me. It is a great example of personal journalism with professionalism and standards of ethics equal to many print publications.

[shysocks]

for this discussion only and at this time, i am going to flip my position.

 

ok, what org is not going to have a black hole?

 

this team has its share and much more of holes to address, what hole can be sacrifice, for the present to jump start this team.

Not "the org has a black hole," the org is a black hole. From 2012 to now the Sox are 13th in the AL in OBP.

[Dick Allen]

Not "the org has a black hole," the org is a black hole. From 2012 to now the Sox are 13th in the AL in OBP.

And that can be easily solved by firing the manager, and hiring a guy whose teams lost 99,96,96,92 games from 2011-2014 becoming the first Twins manager to be fired since the same season Hawk fired Tony LaRussa.

[LDF]

BTW, and since I have nothing to do with it it's not self serving; futuresox is amazing to me. It is a great example of personal journalism with professionalism and standards of ethics equal to many print publications.

 

as long we are singing the praises of that, no one can understand the hard work it takes to do it and do it as well as it is. this part is of this site i really enjoy.

 

 

[LDF]

Not "the org has a black hole," the org is a black hole. From 2012 to now the Sox are 13th in the AL in OBP.

 

i guess i am wrong in this.... i, in my limited sense can't see the difference. but i am moving on.

 

you are right.

[he gone.]

I liken them to golf swing coaches. They are just there when things aren't going well to break it down and make suggestions to tweak to get you back to feeling good mentally. I'm okay with giving the boot.