Greg Walker ~ What have we learned?

[Soxfest]

What I learned most from Greg Walker era is JR is too loyal and keeps guys 2 to 4 years past when they should of been let go.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Soxfest

[Dick Allen]

What I learned most from Greg Walker era is JR is too loyal and keeps guys 2 to 4 years past when they should of been let go.

Yeah, the offense realy took off when he finally took off. What a horrible thing, loyalty.

[Texsox]

Yeah, the offense realy took off when he finally took off. What a horrible thing, loyalty.

 

One of the issues I was hoping we would get to is keeping guys around. If we have a better picture of exactly was is to gain, or lose, keeping a long term employee just might be better.

[Soxfest]

Yeah, the offense realy took off when he finally took off. What a horrible thing, loyalty.

Last 6 years and ZERO playoff appearances..........yep loyalty has worked out so well.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Soxfest

[PorkChopExpress]

And that can be easily solved by firing the manager, and hiring a guy whose teams lost 99,96,96,92 games from 2011-2014 becoming the first Twins manager to be fired since the same season Hawk fired Tony LaRussa.

 

Come on. His first 9 years (2002-2010) he led the Twins to a division title six times, had a losing season only once, and had 90+ wins five times. He was manager of the year in 2010, runner up for that honor in 03, 04, 06, 08 and 09, and 3rd place in 02. Yeah, his last four years were bad, but are you suggesting he's not a good manager?

 

And to be clear, I'm not advocating for Robin's firing, but if it were to happen, I'd be happy to see Gardenhire on the south side.

 

[LDF]

Last 8 years and ZERO playoff appearances..........yep loyalty has worked out so well.

 

a farm system that has produce, a majority of the time, crap. an inept scouting core, that has drafted, crap.

[Texsox]

Last 8 years and ZERO playoff appearances..........yep loyalty has worked out so well.

 

Walker has been gone three years and ZERO playoff appearances. With Walker World Series WIN!

 

Is playoffs and world series the best way to judge the effectiveness of an individual coach?

[Dick Allen]

Walker has been gone three years and ZERO playoff appearances. With Walker World Series WIN!

 

Is playoffs and world series the best way to judge the effectiveness of an individual coach?

I do think something was learned. If this offense had been hitting like this under Walker, the fire him, bad at his job...threads and posts would have been too many to count. There really is nothing out there calling for Steverson's head.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Dick Allen

[LDF]

I do think something was learned. If this offense had been hitting like this under Walker, the fire him, bad at his job...threads and posts would have been too many to count. There really is nothing out there calling for Steverson's head.

 

excellent question.

 

for some of the time, yes, however, the coaches of the different needs are judge differently.

 

the fans and management can see the individual coach like pitching coach, that end result is seen quickly.

hitting coach, i guess, you can see that end result as quick as the pitching,

 

and then the other coaches.

 

 

[caulfield12]

And that can be easily solved by firing the manager, and hiring a guy whose teams lost 99,96,96,92 games from 2011-2014 becoming the first Twins manager to be fired since the same season Hawk fired Tony LaRussa.

 

 

Everyone in baseball other than some at SoxTalk knew the Twins were going into a long-term rebuilding process....which was exacerbated by having a turf team unprepared for outdoor style of play AND Mauer, Morneau, Santana and Liriano falling off the map production-wise.

 

Let's add the reign of terror by Bill Smith. See below.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/820267-...erry-ryan-built

 

[Leonard Zelig]

Last 8 years and ZERO playoff appearances..........yep loyalty has worked out so well.

 

Was game 163 in 2008 just a dream?!?!

[southsider2k5]

Was game 163 in 2008 just a dream?!?!

 

Forget it, he's rolling.

 

[SCCWS]

Walker has been gone three years and ZERO playoff appearances. With Walker World Series WIN!

 

Is playoffs and world series the best way to judge the effectiveness of an individual coach?

 

Yes. Ozzie, coop and walker should have been given contracts for life.............................................................

 

[caulfield12]

Yeah, I'm not seeing many posters argue that Ozzie Guillen should still be around as White Sox manager.

 

Joey Cora, as bench coach, etc.

 

If the only thing that mattered was that World Series title, then we should recreate as much as possible the same conditions that brought that championship about according to this thread.

Edited May 6, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Everyone in baseball other than some at SoxTalk knew the Twins were going into a long-term rebuilding process....which was exacerbated by having a turf team unprepared for outdoor style of play AND Mauer, Morneau, Santana and Liriano falling off the map production-wise.

 

Let's add the reign of terror by Bill Smith. See below.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/820267-...erry-ryan-built

Yet you seemingly have no idea the White Sox were rebuilding and pin losses on him. He took over a 79 win team that lost Buehrle, and they win 85, but the collapse. That is all on Robin......except Paulie, wrist surgery, Youk, back gives out, Sale, out of gas.

 

If you are going to ignore losses for Gardy because of talent, to be fair, you would have to do it for Robin.

[caulfield12]

Yet you seemingly have no idea the White Sox were rebuilding and pin losses on him. He took over a 79 win team that lost Buehrle, and they win 85, but the collapse. That is all on Robin......except Paulie, wrist surgery, Youk, back gives out, Sale, out of gas.

 

If you are going to ignore losses for Gardy because of talent, to be fair, you would have to do it for Robin.

 

And everyone would be willing to do that, if he had won something in 2012.

 

Because of that collapse, and the piss poor fundamentals and lack of execution and just a plethora of mental errors from mid-September 2012 until today, what conclusion/s are to be drawn?

 

Because we can't blame this team's poor defense and poor baserunning on Dayan Viciedo and Alejandro DeAza any longer.

 

What's the ONE common factor during that time period?

 

You're going to balance Ron Gardenhire's 6 AL Central Division championships in 9 years with Robin Ventura's 5 1/2 months in 2012?

 

REALLY?

 

You give Ron Gardenhire Byron Buxton and Miguel Sano playing up to their ability and 100% healthy, you'll have an 85+ wins Twins' team again....if not for the fact that they went after Ricky Nolasco and Erwin Santana (another board favorite last off-season).

 

http://www.wadenapj.com/sports/3708353-do-...-problem-licked

 

 

 

So basically, you want Robin Ventura (a manager hired with ZERO experience or credentials) to be given the same benefit of the doubt...which just doesn't make any sense. Let's say Dick Allen was Regional Salesman of the Year for 6 out of 9 years. His company then brings in someone they think COULD be better, but is totally inexperienced and never even done sales and he consequently produces results that are pedestrian at best, and which leave numerous questions in mind of any future improvement. He hasn't proven anything as of yet....how long is the company going to stay in a state of uncertainty before going back to the person with the record of performance on the back of their (sales) baseball card?

 

I'm starting to believe you are actually Chris Rongey in disguise, lol. You have more excuses than cod liver has pills, as my now 86 year old mother would say.

Edited May 6, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

And everyone would be willing to do that, if he had won something in 2012.

 

Because of that collapse, and the piss poor fundamentals and lack of execution and just a plethora of mental errors from mid-September 2012 until today, what conclusion/s are to be drawn?

 

Because we can't blame this team's poor defense and poor baserunning on Dayan Viciedo and Alejandro DeAza any longer.

 

What's the ONE common factor during that time period?

 

You're going to balance Ron Gardenhire's 6 AL Central Division championships in 9 years with Robin Ventura's 5 1/2 months in 2012?

 

REALLY?

 

You give Ron Gardenhire Byron Buxton and Miguel Sano playing up to their ability and 100% healthy, you'll have an 85+ wins Twins' team again....if not for the fact that they went after Ricky Nolasco and Erwin Santana (another board favorite last off-season).

 

http://www.wadenapj.com/sports/3708353-do-...-problem-licked

 

 

 

So basically, you want Robin Ventura (a manager hired with ZERO experience or credentials) to be given the same benefit of the doubt...which just doesn't make any sense. Let's say Dick Allen was Regional Salesman of the Year for 6 out of 9 years. His company then brings in someone they think COULD be better, but is totally inexperienced and never even done sales and he consequently produces results that are pedestrian at best, and which leave numerous questions in mind of any future improvement. He hasn't proven anything as of yet....how long is the company going to stay in a state of uncertainty before going back to the person with the record of performance on the back of their (sales) baseball card?

 

I'm starting to believe you are actually Chris Rongey in disguise, lol. You have more excuses than cod liver has pills, as my now 86 year old mother would say.

 

Whit Sox players don't play well, clearly Ventura's fault. Lack of talent , and injuries be damned. Any other manager has a team that sucks, so and so didn't play well. Why isn't Joe Mauer's drop off on Gardy? Or Choo's horribleness your pals fault? If they were White Sox you know who you would be blaming.

 

[caulfield12]

Whit Sox players don't play well, clearly Ventura's fault. Lack of talent , and injuries be damned. Any other manager has a team that sucks, so and so didn't play well. Why isn't Joe Mauer's drop off on Gardy? Or Choo's horribleness your pals fault? If they were White Sox you know who you would be blaming.

 

 

What significant injuries have the White Sox had this season, compared to other division rivals (Justin Verlander, Nathan, Alex Rios/Hochevar, Swisher and Gomes, Ventura for PED's, etc.)?

 

Last time I checked, the Rangers and Twins were both predicted to finish in last place in their respective divisions by EVERYONE.

 

 

So, to summarize, you would be happy to give up your highly-compensated (with a 14 year track record) sales job to the equivalent of Robin Ventura, right?

 

When the White Sox stage a miraculous comeback and win the division, are you then going to argue the opposite of your current line, that Robin Ventura had nothing to do with it at all and shouldn't be extended beyond 2016 as a reward "because the players did it 100% all on their own and it wouldn't have mattered who was managing them"?

Edited May 6, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

What significant injuries have the White Sox had this season, compared to other division rivals (Justin Verlander, Nathan, Alex Rios/Hochevar, Swisher and Gomes, Ventura for PED's, etc.)?

 

Last time I checked, the Rangers and Twins were both predicted to finish in last place in their respective divisions by EVERYONE.

 

 

So, to summarize, you would be happy to give up your highly-compensated (with a 14 year track record) sales job to the equivalent of Robin Ventura, right?

This season is 23 games old. Sale missed a start. If you are going as deep as you are, there is Nate Jones. Nick Swisher? Really? Joe Nathan?mAlex Rios? Of course you were the guy telling us Cashman screwed up trading Greene to Detroit.

 

To summarize, jumpimg to conclusions 1/8 th of the way in will make you look real bad when it is all over.

[LDF]

Whit Sox players don't play well, clearly Ventura's fault. Lack of talent , and injuries be damned. Any other manager has a team that sucks, so and so didn't play well. Why isn't Joe Mauer's drop off on Gardy? Or Choo's horribleness your pals fault? If they were White Sox you know who you would be blaming.

 

why does blame need to be heap on anyone, there is no accountability b/c the sox owners are loyal.

 

(i would add green, but it is true)

[caulfield12]

We should have a poll (which the moderators) would never approve, but it would be an entertaining discussion.

 

Which of the following coaching combinations would lead the White Sox to the best record (if Robin Ventura was replaced by)?:

 

1) Dick Allen (you can name your own bench coach)

 

2) Fathom and Balta (just because I like his politics the most of the mods, lol)

 

3) A combination of two of ANY two of the remaining mods

 

4) Jake and Brian (the movie/tv team)

 

5) Kyyle and Northside

 

6) the rest of the field of non-mods (I'll name LDF and Greg775 for my co-coaches and we can party at Applebee's after games)

 

7) flavum and Greg Hibbard, because there'd be lots of optimism and theoretical record projections mixed in with cliches for post-game press conferences

 

 

 

 

I vote 2.

Edited May 6, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

We should have a poll (which the moderators) would never approve, but it would be an entertaining discussion.

 

Which of the following coaching combinations would lead the White Sox to the best record (if Robin Ventura was replaced by)?:

 

1) Dick Allen (you can name your own bench coach)

 

2) Fathom and Balta (just because I like his politics the most of the mods, lol)

 

3) A combination of two of ANY two of the remaining mods

 

4) Jake and Brian (the movie/tv team)

 

5) Kyyle and Northside

 

6) the rest of the field of non-mods (I'll name LDF and Greg775 for my co-coaches and we can party at Applebee's after games)

 

7) flavum and Greg Hibbard, because there'd be lots of optimism and theoretical record projections mixed in with cliches for post-game press conferences

 

 

 

 

I vote 2.

Ha, something tells me I might not have the emotional temperament to connect with a series of athletic males in their 20s. Klingon profanity just might not get through.

 

[LDF]

We should have a poll (which the moderators) would never approve, but it would be an entertaining discussion.

 

Which of the following coaching combinations would lead the White Sox to the best record (if Robin Ventura was replaced by)?:

 

1) Dick Allen (you can name your own bench coach)

 

2) Fathom and Balta (just because I like his politics the most of the mods, lol)

 

3) A combination of two of ANY two of the remaining mods

 

4) Jake and Brian (the movie/tv team)

 

5) Kyyle and Northside

 

6) the rest of the field of non-mods (I'll name LDF and Greg775 for my co-coaches and we can party at Applebee's after games)

 

7) flavum and Greg Hibbard, because there'd be lots of optimism and theoretical record projections mixed in with cliches for post-game press conferences

 

 

 

 

I vote 2.

 

for me. just let me know, and call me at the nearest bar.

[Texsox]

Yes. Ozzie, coop and walker should have been given contracts for life.............................................................

 

So you agree that playoff appearances is not a good way to evaluate if a coach is doing a good job and should be retained?

[Eminor3rd]

And that can be easily solved by firing the manager, and hiring a guy whose teams lost 99,96,96,92 games from 2011-2014 becoming the first Twins manager to be fired since the same season Hawk fired Tony LaRussa.

 

I think that's exactly the point I was trying to make -- we had a hitting coach who said ridiculous things like "I want guys to expand their zone with runners on base," to a guy who came from the A's and says things like, "I need our hitters to be patient so that they force the pitcher to give them a good pitch to hit," and we've seen no real change in the results.