JUGGERNAUT Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Myself & a group of fans used to buy tickets on the rare nights the LD was sold out like tonight. We would for the most part spend time in the UD, but on food runs we would go down to the LD & both eat & watch the game from the concourse. When we finished eating we would grab some beers & watch the rest of the game from our UD seats. Now that we can't do that any more my friends prefer to just meet in a local bar & watch the game there. This is not about price but rather availability. If the SOX want to offer an UD seat + LD access for a LD price that is fine with us. Now I've heard season ticket holders make arguments about we should have done this & we should have done that, but if you know the history of MLB it's one of the few sports where you use to be able to decide on game day whether you wanted to go to the park or not. In my opinion the new policy hurts attendance. I welcome a ticket offering an UD seat & LD access for a LD price. But watching the game from the UD is a less than enjoyable experience for most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 what was wrong with having just 1 poll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 what was wrong with having just 1 poll It was too specific. Someone told me I didn't ask whether it hurt attendance but rather whether they would go to more games. Since the decision to go to more games could have nothing to do with the UD policy it needed to be clarified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 It is bulls*** to tell a family to stay upstairs when, the CELL was built with taxpayer money let not forget JR and you have not payed rent in 3 years the Taxpayer has footed the ENTIRE bill, every citizen in Illinois helped to pay for the piece of s*** park, and to not be able to see the whole park while there, when attendance is scarce anyway is why Rob Gallas is the worst PR guy in Sox history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 It is bulls*** to tell a family to stay upstairs when, the CELL was built with taxpayer money let not forget JR and you have not payed rent in 3 years the Taxpayer has footed the ENTIRE bill, every citizen in Illinois helped to pay for the piece of s*** park, and to not be able to see the whole park while there, when attendance is scarce anyway is why Rob Gallas is the worst PR guy in Sox history. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.. but unless you stay at hotels IN the city you didn't pay for any of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 It is bulls*** to tell a family to stay upstairs when, the CELL was built with taxpayer money let not forget JR and you have not payed rent in 3 years the Taxpayer has footed the ENTIRE bill, every citizen in Illinois helped to pay for the piece of s*** park, and to not be able to see the whole park while there, when attendance is scarce anyway is why Rob Gallas is the worst PR guy in Sox history. First of all every taxpayer in Illinois did NOT pay for that park. That park was paid for when a hotel tax was added. I believe the hotel tax is only charged in Chicago, I could be mistaken. So if you haven't stayed in a hotel and payed for it, none of your money has gone towards the park. The family of 6 if they don't want to spend the extra $8 per person per game to sit in the lower deck, or the extra $4 per person on half priced night can get $1 kids tickets when they go on Sunday. Or good upper deck seats are usually available, especially in advance. If the lower bowl is sold out, this family of six would have a hard time finding a place to sit anyway, and if you have young children your not going to want them standing for hours at a time. You can see the whole park, if you pay for it. I just don't understand the argument of how you should be able to buy the cheapest ticket and sit wherever you want. Its not fair to the people who paid their way. The concession lines become longer, the bathroom lines longer. If you go to the bathroom, you'll miss an inning or 2 and come back and someone will be sitting in your seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 First of all every taxpayer in Illinois did NOT pay for that park. That park was paid for when a hotel tax was added. I believe the hotel tax is only charged in Chicago, I could be mistaken. So if you haven't stayed in a hotel and payed for it, none of your money has gone towards the park. The family of 6 if they don't want to spend the extra $8 per person per game to sit in the lower deck, or the extra $4 per person on half priced night can get $1 kids tickets when they go on Sunday. Or good upper deck seats are usually available, especially in advance. If the lower bowl is sold out, this family of six would have a hard time finding a place to sit anyway, and if you have young children your not going to want them standing for hours at a time. You can see the whole park, if you pay for it. I just don't understand the argument of how you should be able to buy the cheapest ticket and sit wherever you want. Its not fair to the people who paid their way. The concession lines become longer, the bathroom lines longer. If you go to the bathroom, you'll miss an inning or 2 and come back and someone will be sitting in your seat. Dick you're wrong on several accounts. It's true the initial charter was a hotel tax but as they ISFA grew so did the tax bounty. It expanded to taxi's & airport taxes. And now it's one big mess to sort out because the ISFA absorbed the new Soldier's Field as well. But by & large all of the taxes that were put in place to support the ISFA have had an adverse effect on the Chicago metropolitan tax base. Now look, I agree the seat stealing is a bad thing but they police that very well these days. There are ushers at every stairwell that check tickets. You keep making this a price issue & it's not. Let me ask you this. If they had a flexible policy where when the LD sells out, those willing to pay a LD price for an UD ticket + LD concourse would have that opportunity would you still object? I've been there are Cub days & packed house nights & I've never once had a problem with bathroom lines. They have plenty of bathrooms on the lower level to support 30-35K fans. I would say they have twice as many bathrooms than all of Wrigley. The only problem I've ever seen is Cub fans get so drunk they can't find the bathroom so they just start pissing in corners. So I find the bathroom argument hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I've waited in some long assed bathroom lines - upper and lower decks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Well, the question is "Does the UD policy hurt attendance at the Cell?" and the anwser is obviously yes, you can't tell me this polocy attracts people to the park, and there might be a few fans who feel cheated when they can only stay in the UD. But the effect on attendance would have to be a very minimal one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Well, the question is "Does the UD policy hurt attendance at the Cell?" and the anwser is obviously yes, you can't tell me this polocy attracts people to the park, and there might be a few fans who feel cheated when they can only stay in the UD. But the effect on attendance would have to be a very minimal one. They didn't have the UD policy in 2000 when they were in first place, and it was emtpy in September then too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Well, the question is "Does the UD policy hurt attendance at the Cell?" and the anwser is obviously yes, you can't tell me this polocy attracts people to the park, and there might be a few fans who feel cheated when they can only stay in the UD. But the effect on attendance would have to be a very minimal one. Geez.. half the people that walk up don't even know the policy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 But at least the policy is fair--people with LD tickets are not allowed access to the UD. Thank You very much, I'll be here all week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 But at least the policy is fair--people with LD tickets are not allowed access to the UD. Thank You very much, I'll be here all week. Yea, actually they are allowed to go to the UD with a LD ticket. I did it this weekend. Thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Here's one suggestion for the Sox. Put some nice food stands in the upperdeck (Never been up there; only been to the park twice) so maybe they are already there. If the game is going to be a sellout or a real big crowd then I think this is a good policy and one that should be enforced, but on 20,000 seat days I wouldn't give a damn if people are allowed to move down. Thats just me though, and I'm a resident Cheap Ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJeter Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 This was brought up on another board where the same poll is going on, but along the lines of what Chisoxfn mentioned, why not provide some features/concessions which are unique to the UD? I've had LD seats on my visits to Safeco, but on several occasions have wandered into the UD for concessions/features (e.g., unique seating areas) which are not available on the LD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 This is great, a NEW reason not to attend White Sox games." I bought a ticket for the upper deck, and they actually want me to sit in the upper deck". The gall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 They didn't have the UD policy in 2000 when they were in first place, and it was emtpy in September then too. I said a minimal effect, i was referring to maybe 10-20 people not wanting to come to the park. Not a large amount of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Here's one suggestion for the Sox. Put some nice food stands in the upperdeck (Never been up there; only been to the park twice) so maybe they are already there. If the game is going to be a sellout or a real big crowd then I think this is a good policy and one that should be enforced, but on 20,000 seat days I wouldn't give a damn if people are allowed to move down. Thats just me though, and I'm a resident Cheap Ass the UD lines are generally much shorter than downstairs for everything. I can guarentee almost every game that I can leave at a third out and get food or hit the john and be back before the first pitch of the next half inning. There are no super fancy gourmet foods up as there are down, but more than adequete food selections. Adding a few classy type food selections up would be cool. I am a first name basis with almost every UD Sox employee - easier to do with the lesser congestion in the UD and more time to chit chat. And with the other fans - have gotten to be good friends with many of them. What we notice is when out of town fans come up there for thgeir first game at USCF- they invariably remark how beautiful USCF is and how great the UD perspective is. We've heard it so often up there, it is such a cliche. Where I sit, I can see everything in the park. And you have never seen the 4th of July until you've seen the fireworks at USCF and then stepped out on the UD ramps and wtached all the fireworks in all the communities and neighborhoods around - it is a most stunning sight. The only place I would choose to sit other than where I am at is in club section. (I love the club section!) But I can't afford that yet - I am quite content where I am in the upper deck, and if that is all I ever can afford, I'll be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 This was brought up on another board where the same poll is going on, but along the lines of what Chisoxfn mentioned, why not provide some features/concessions which are unique to the UD? I've had LD seats on my visits to Safeco, but on several occasions have wandered into the UD for concessions/features (e.g., unique seating areas) which are not available on the LD. This is a good idea. Make the UD a unique experience with respect to the food & amenities that are offered. I think that's something I can sell the average fan which makes up my friends. Now if someone can convince JR we'd be making progress. BTW, we had been using the ticket packages in previous years. But with this year expected to be so-so we passed. So that's why we went the walk-up route. I think you're wrong to equate 2003 with 2000. There wasn't anywhere near the buzz you had in 2000 like you do now. Part of that is the sCrUBs & the possibility of a Chi-town series. But when you compare the attendance of the early yrs where you could buy UD & roam I think it's clear it's having an effect on attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 Here's one suggestion for the Sox. Put some nice food stands in the upperdeck (Never been up there; only been to the park twice) so maybe they are already there. If the game is going to be a sellout or a real big crowd then I think this is a good policy and one that should be enforced, but on 20,000 seat days I wouldn't give a damn if people are allowed to move down. Thats just me though, and I'm a resident Cheap Ass the UD lines are generally much shorter than downstairs for everything. I can guarentee almost every game that I can leave at a third out and get food or hit the john and be back before the first pitch of the next half inning. There are no super fancy gourmet foods up as there are down, but more than adequete food selections. Adding a few classy type food selections up would be cool. I am a first name basis with almost every UD Sox employee - easier to do with the lesser congestion in the UD and more time to chit chat. And with the other fans - have gotten to be good friends with many of them. What we notice is when out of town fans come up there for thgeir first game at USCF- they invariably remark how beautiful USCF is and how great the UD perspective is. We've heard it so often up there, it is such a cliche. Where I sit, I can see everything in the park. And you have never seen the 4th of July until you've seen the fireworks at USCF and then stepped out on the UD ramps and wtached all the fireworks in all the communities and neighborhoods around - it is a most stunning sight. The only place I would choose to sit other than where I am at is in club section. (I love the club section!) But I can't afford that yet - I am quite content where I am in the upper deck, and if that is all I ever can afford, I'll be happy. If it's SOOOO great up there, then why can't they sell tickets? Most of the people I talk to with regards to the UD say it's too steep & ridiculous to expect someone to stay in that seat & experience that level of vertigo for a 9 in ball game. The farther up you the harder it is to walk down & up without that feeling. Is it just possible that those of you who love the UD are not afraid of heights but the general public might be? Is it just possible that when the incline is 45 deg that the avg person doesn't feel any different, but when it's 60 deg it scares the s*** out of some? Please, stop with the personal experience posts. You're men for Christ sakes. Stop arguing like a woman. Deal with the question from a general perspective trying to consider the general populous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Someone correct me if I'm wrong.. but unless you stay at hotels IN the city you didn't pay for any of it. You are wrong it us called the Illinois sports authority , not CHICAGO only Taxpayers all throughout Illinois footed the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 You are wrong it us called the Illinois sports authority , not CHICAGO only Taxpayers all throughout Illinois footed the bill. No you are wrong. The Illinois Sports Facilities Authority gets its money from a hotel tax which is collected in the City of Chicago only. I just looked it up on the state's website. The only taxpayers who footed the bill for this park are people who have stayed in Chicago hotels. Look it up for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJeter Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 This is a good idea. Make the UD a unique experience with respect to the food & amenities that are offered. Yes, why not take those two UD corners and make them something special? (Seattle has something like that in the LF corner.) I know nothing about architecture or construction, but if you replaced those seats in the corners with some fan deck-like seating and had some decent concessions up there, could be a fun destination for people. I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to remove the seats and provide a deck with a neat "above it all" view. almost like a poor man's Stadium Club. Heck, I'd sit up there. I don't pay that close attention to the game when I go anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I voted maybe because there seems to be a number of people out there who this matters very deeply to. I doubt that it's a very large number of people. Personally, I couldn't care less if I'm allowed downstairs when i buy walkup UD seats. If I'm in the lower deck, I walk the concourse. If I'm in the upper deck, I tend to stay in my seat more of the time. That's how it works for me - of course, that's just my personal experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 No you are wrong. The Illinois Sports Facilities Authority gets its money from a hotel tax which is collected in the City of Chicago only. I just looked it up on the state's website. The only taxpayers who footed the bill for this park are people who have stayed in Chicago hotels. Look it up for yourself. Again, that was the original charter. It's changed over the years to include taxi's & airport related fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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