Ventura told stuff by front office

[LDF]

I see this "message" as a sign to the fans that Robin has been warned. My gut says Robin is here for the season but if improvement doesn't happen, he is gone. Management will then say that we asked RV to be more hands-on, it didn't help so we have no choice but to make a change.

 

this is the dilemma i am having. is this the reason, the sox are not winnin? should the blame be laid on RV? is it the mix of players??

 

how to jump start this team? i really do wish to know. i guess that will be the 1 million dollar question.

 

i guess to ride this out, and hope for the best.

[fathom]

You really want to fire Hahn already?

 

What has he done to deserve to keep being a GM with this team? This is a big payroll for an awful team.

[LDF]

Hahn has single handedly brought excitement to this team thru his draft picks and trades, and yes, thru his fa acquisitions.

 

maybe i am being bias but i don't blame Hahn as much as i blame the others in the FO.

Edited May 9, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

What has he done to deserve to keep being a GM with this team? This is a big payroll for an awful team.

 

you bring up a good question, and i am going to stay in the blaming part.

 

is coop to blame as well??

 

why coop and hahn?

[Balta1701]

you bring up a good question, and i am going to stay in the blaming part.

 

is coop to blame as well??

 

why coop and hahn?

Yes. At this point all of them.

[Chicago White Sox]

What has he done to deserve to keep being a GM with this team? This is a big payroll for an awful team.

15th ranked payroll in baseball and which big salary guy do you expect to suck all season? Our team sucks because the entire team is vastly underperforming and we have a couple major holes that weren't filled. The only guy who is definitely a waste of payroll dollars is Danks.

 

I think the problem is that you think this was an "all-in" season when it never was. Hahn's goal was to improve the team on paper and get it closer to a legitimate title contender in 2016. I think pretty much everyone agreed his offseason was a success in that regard. I'm not going to blame him just yet for the entire team sucking at the same time. We were all aware of the holes on the roster entering 2015, which would have impossible to fill in one offseason, so to can him for that would be incredibly short-sighted.

[Balta1701]

15th ranked payroll in baseball and which big salary guy do you expect to suck all season? Our team sucks because the entire team is vastly underperforming and we have a couple major holes that weren't filled. The only guy who is definitely a waste of payroll dollars is Danks.

 

I think the problem is that you think this was an "all-in" season when it never was. Hahn's goal was to improve the team on paper and get it closer to a legitimate title contender in 2016. I think pretty much everyone agreed his offseason was a success in that regard. I'm not going to blame him just yet for the entire team sucking at the same time. We were all aware of the holes on the roster entering 2015, which would have impossible to fill in one offseason, so to can him for that would be incredibly short-sighted.

So how are those holes going to be filled in between 2015 and 2016 when we have already committed over $120 million to our 2016 payroll assuming we pick up Alexei's option and most of the arb-eligible players?

 

Unless we trade some people who are paid decently away we already have a greater committed salary in 2016 than what we have on the payroll in 2015, and that's with Samardzija walking. How are those holes filled when we have literally no money to spend as it currently stands?

[Chicago White Sox]

So how are those holes going to be filled in between 2015 and 2016 when we have already committed over $120 million to our 2016 payroll assuming we pick up Alexei's option and most of the arb-eligible players?

 

Unless we trade some people who are paid decently away we already have a greater committed salary in 2016 than what we have on the payroll in 2015, and that's with Samardzija walking. How are those holes filled when we have literally no money to spend as it currently stands?

As always, I'm intrigued by your access to the Sox's financial projections. If your assumptions are solely based on Forbes, apparently we made $32M last year in OP and barely increased the payroll this year. So that right there gives you a decent amount of money to play with. That also assumes there are no new revenue streams for 2016, which is definitely a possibility but something you'd have no knowledge of.

 

We also don't know yet if any internal candidates will be available to fill some of our holes. Sanchez, Davidson, Thompson, hell maybe even Kevan Smith could be pushing for jobs by the end of the season. Way too early to tell at this point, which is exactly why none of us should be jumping to conclusions just yet. Too much baseball left to know exactly what we have in place for next year.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Chicago White Sox

[Balta1701]

As always, I'm intrigued by your access to the Sox's financial projections. If your assumptions are solely based on Forbes, apparently we made $32M last year in OP and barely increased the payroll this year. So that right there gives you a decent amount of money to play with. That also assumes there are no new revenue streams for 2016, which is definitely a possibility but something you'd have no knowledge of.

 

We also don't know yet if any internal candidates will be available to fill some of our holes. Sanchez, Davidson, Thompson, hell maybe even Kevan Smith could be pushing for jobs by the end of the season. Way too early to tell at this point, which is exactly why none of us should be jumping to conclusions just yet. Too much baseball left to know exactly what we have in place for next year.

?????

 

Our opening day payroll in 2014 was $91 million. Our 2015 opening day payroll is $118 million. According to Forbes we made $32 million and we increased our payroll by $27 million.

 

And if you're counting on any of those names you listed to fill a solid spot on a competitive team as a rookie, well I'm not going to buy that at all.

 

The only way this worked was for this team to at least be competitive enough to sell a bunch of tickets all year long in 2015 and really sell the fan base on winning in 2016.

[LDF]

As always, I'm intrigued by your access to the Sox's financial projections. If your assumptions are solely based on Forbes, apparently we made $32M last year in OP and barely increased the payroll this year. So that right there gives you a decent amount of money to play with. That also assumes there are no new revenue streams for 2016, which is definitely a possibility but something you'd have no knowledge of.

 

We also don't know yet if any internal candidates will be available to fill some of our holes. Sanchez, Davidson, Thompson, hell maybe even Kevan Smith could be pushing for jobs by the end of the season. Way too early to tell at this point, which is exactly why none of us should be jumping to conclusions just yet. Too much baseball left to know exactly what we have in place for next year.

 

and where are you getting this number??

[Chicago White Sox]

?????

 

Our opening day payroll in 2014 was $91 million. Our 2015 opening day payroll is $118 million. According to Forbes we made $32 million and we increased our payroll by $27 million.

 

And if you're counting on any of those names you listed to fill a solid spot on a competitive team as a rookie, well I'm not going to buy that at all.

 

The only way this worked was for this team to at least be competitive enough to sell a bunch of tickets all year long in 2015 and really sell the fan base on winning in 2016.

Lol, well I'm idiot. Should have double-checked those payroll numbers. I will stand by my comment that you can't simply rely on prior year revenue when looking forward, but you're right, the financial situation is not nearly as rosy as I painted.

[greg775]

So how are those holes going to be filled in between 2015 and 2016 when we have already committed over $120 million to our 2016 payroll assuming we pick up Alexei's option and most of the arb-eligible players?

 

Unless we trade some people who are paid decently away we already have a greater committed salary in 2016 than what we have on the payroll in 2015, and that's with Samardzija walking. How are those holes filled when we have literally no money to spend as it currently stands?

 

You gave the answer: "We trade some people who are paid decently away." If the Sox stink this year, at all-star break a huge firesale should begin to try again. No need to keep Shark or LaRoche for starters. Then you deal others just to start over and get a haul. Robertson and Melky will be mighty valuable to teams that are contending. Alexei as well.

Now if Sox are 4 in back of the wildcard they might keep everybody which would be stupid. This year somebody needs to decide whether Sox are contenders or not. If it's obvious the team is not getting any better, everybody should be on markest except Abreu and Sale and Rodon and perhaps Avi and Q.

[caulfield12]

You gave the answer: "We trade some people who are paid decently away." If the Sox stink this year, at all-star break a huge firesale should begin to try again. No need to keep Shark or LaRoche for starters. Then you deal others just to start over and get a haul. Robertson and Melky will be mighty valuable to teams that are contending. Alexei as well.

Now if Sox are 4 in back of the wildcard they might keep everybody which would be stupid. This year somebody needs to decide whether Sox are contenders or not. If it's obvious the team is not getting any better, everybody should be on markest except Abreu and Sale and Rodon and perhaps Avi and Q.

 

 

The problem with that Greg is something as simple as Robertson....you complained last year about Reed being dealt with nobody to replace him.

 

Do you really want 2016 to be another development year....since trading all those veterans will give you more Avisail Garcias, Davidsons, Sanchezes, Micahs, Montas, Anderson, Danish, Hawkins, etc. All the players coming back in return via trade will require 1-3 years before they could be counted upon.

 

Petricka would be closer again barring a miraculous return from your favorite healthy reliever, Nate Jones.

 

Then Robin Ventura would have two or three more development years to learn on the job. Sounds attractive?

 

The only way to get major league talent back is dealing Sale and/or Abreu.

 

Equally demoralizing. If not moreso.

Edited May 10, 2015 by caulfield12

[greg775]

The problem with that Greg is something as simple as Robertson....you complained last year about Reed being dealt with nobody to replace him.

 

Do you really want 2016 to be another development year....since trading all those veterans will give you more Avisail Garcias, Davidsons, Sanchezes, Micahs, Montas, Anderson, Danish, Hawkins, etc. All the players coming back in return via trade will require 1-3 years before they could be counted upon.

 

Petricka would be closer again barring a miraculous return from your favorite healthy reliever, Nate Jones.

 

Then Robin Ventura would have two or three more development years to learn on the job. Sounds attractive?

 

The only way to get major league talent back is dealing Sale and/or Abreu.

 

Equally demoralizing. If not moreso.

My new position is it doesn't matter. Somehow Minnesota is five over .500 with all no names plus Mauer. We can hit lightning in a bottle just as easily with young guys who click. Now that I'm not emotionally attached to any players, I say (if Sox continue to suck) go ahead and trade them all and try to get some superstar younguns. They can't play any worse than our teams of the Robin era and the late Ozzie era. I say give a new manager some youth and speed and defense.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I just want to see Robin fired and a guy who knows what he's doing hired.

[Thad Bosley]

Yes. The front office needs to take advice from message board fans on how to run their billion dollar operation.

LOL. Well, it looks like they need advice from somebody, now, doesn't it? Because if this "billion dollar organization" doesn't get its act together and find a way to make the playoffs this year, it'll mark the 13th time in 15 years under the "internal advice" provided by the Reinsdorf/Williams/Hahn brain trust configuration that they would have failed to do so. Dat is noooo good, Meester. No good at all!

Edited May 10, 2015 by Thad Bosley

[caulfield12]

But don't stop with that excerpt -- read this whole piece by Bruce Levine, if only to see if we can figure out through the wisdom of the crowd whose interest(s) this story actually serves.

 

Superficially, it uses flattering verbiage for both the coaching staff ("tireless workers") and the front office (" Hahn and Williams simply used some of their upper-management skills"). Through this lens, perhaps it's just a way to transfer heat from Ventura to the players.

 

But if a reader isn't inclined to be charitable, this could come off as damning. I don't think it does Ventura any favors -- it reads like he's in need of his own "hands-on" management training during his fourth year on the job. And if that's the case, then it could be a tacit admission that Williams and Hahn overestimated Ventura's abilities. I guess it depends on who is more responsible for the old "manifesto," because it's not a good look when an entire offseason's worth of preparation has been deemed ineffective and replaced in three days.

 

I'm also not ruling out that it's a poorly executed story more than anything else, because it's been known to happen. At the very least, the emphasis on "working hard" rings hollow when "working smart" has been the problem.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/5/10/8581...p-up-in-the-air

[LDF]

But don't stop with that excerpt -- read this whole piece by Bruce Levine, if only to see if we can figure out through the wisdom of the crowd whose interest(s) this story actually serves.

 

Superficially, it uses flattering verbiage for both the coaching staff ("tireless workers") and the front office (" Hahn and Williams simply used some of their upper-management skills"). Through this lens, perhaps it's just a way to transfer heat from Ventura to the players.

 

But if a reader isn't inclined to be charitable, this could come off as damning. I don't think it does Ventura any favors -- it reads like he's in need of his own "hands-on" management training during his fourth year on the job. And if that's the case, then it could be a tacit admission that Williams and Hahn overestimated Ventura's abilities. I guess it depends on who is more responsible for the old "manifesto," because it's not a good look when an entire offseason's worth of preparation has been deemed ineffective and replaced in three days.

 

I'm also not ruling out that it's a poorly executed story more than anything else, because it's been known to happen. At the very least, the emphasis on "working hard" rings hollow when "working smart" has been the problem.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/5/10/8581...p-up-in-the-air

 

yeah, i just wrote about it, now i deleted it. it was almost the whole highlights of posters comments off this site.

 

the way mlb rumors does things, i was sure it would be them posting a link, not sb nation.

[caulfield12]

yeah, i just wrote about it, now i deleted it. it was almost the whole highlights of posters comments off this site.

 

the way mlb rumors does things, i was sure it would be them posting a link, not sb nation.

 

 

It's a specific writer for Southsidesox.com, Jim Margalus (sp)...which gets picked up by sb nation apparently.

[Texsox]

In another thread people were claiming that no one in the front office should have their jobs. Now they are stepping in and that is a mistake. I wonder if at some point they ignore the fan's opinions?

[LDF]

In another thread people were claiming that no one in the front office should have their jobs. Now they are stepping in and that is a mistake. I wonder if at some point they ignore the fan's opinions?

 

the point is we as fans have no say so, we made our rant, lets no dwell it, lets move on.

 

btw i am of the old school. no one can insult my team if you are not a sox fan, we only have that right.

Edited May 11, 2015 by LDF

[Balta1701]

In another thread people were claiming that no one in the front office should have their jobs. Now they are stepping in and that is a mistake. I wonder if at some point they ignore the fan's opinions?

They created a steaming pile of animal waste and now they are stepping in it. Both of these steps have the end result of making a mess.

[LDF]

They created a steaming pile of animal waste and now they are stepping in it. Both of these steps have the end result of making a mess.

 

 

real nice.... i gots to remember that.

[GreenSox]

So how are those holes going to be filled in between 2015 and 2016 when we have already committed over $120 million to our 2016 payroll assuming we pick up Alexei's option and most of the arb-eligible players?

 

Unless we trade some people who are paid decently away we already have a greater committed salary in 2016 than what we have on the payroll in 2015, and that's with Samardzija walking. How are those holes filled when we have literally no money to spend as it currently stands?

Have to trade some player in areas where we have depth and bring up a young player...like SS.

Or maybe trade some of our "bounty" in ready prospects for a position where we are thin.

And getting some of these pitchers who seem a year away will be helpful too. A lot of these guys seem like they are almost there but just can't find that last rung on the ladder.

 

We're going to need a 3B and a catcher. But I think we're okay in the OF - let Gillaspie shag balls; he's a good hitter against righties and has good value there...nice bat for our bench.

Edited May 11, 2015 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

Have to trade some player in areas where we have depth and bring up a young player...like SS.

Or maybe trade some of our "bounty" in ready prospects for a position where we are thin.

And getting some of these pitchers who seem a year away will be helpful too. A lot of these guys seem like they are almost there but just can't find that last rung on the ladder.

 

We're going to need a 3B and a catcher. But I think we're okay in the OF - let Gillaspie shag balls; he's a good hitter against righties and has good value there...nice bat for our bench.

 

We only have one potential impact SS (both offensively and defensively), and that's Tim Anderson.

 

If we can tolerate his learning curve at the major league level.

 

The problem is that we're going to be skipping a year in development if we push him too fast to Chicago...of course, on the other hand, breaking him into the big league line-up in 2017 (assuming Alexei's gone or moved to 2B) puts a rookie at a critical middle infield position in the heart of the oncoming "competitive window."