Ventura told stuff by front office

[chitownsportsfan]

Dan Hayes @CSNHayes

Heard in clubhouse that Angel Hernandez did signal that Stephen Vogt was in as a hitter Fri & reversed & said he was noting pinch runner.

 

If that's the case he should have argued and got him self ejected because that is horse s***. Either way, it's an awful look. Hayes is just carrying the orgs water regardless.

[southsider2k5]

If that's the case he should have argued and got him self ejected because that is horse s***. Either way, it's an awful look. Hayes is just carrying the orgs water regardless.

 

lol. So he should take the umpires mistake, and turn it into an even bigger mistake by getting kicked out of the game? The reality is that the umpire is the final authority and if he screws up, there isn't much you can do about it. Compounding the error by trying to show up the umpire isn't going to help the team, and in fact will probably just piss him off against your team.

[Kyyle23]

If that's the case he should have argued and got him self ejected because that is horse s***. Either way, it's an awful look. Hayes is just carrying the orgs water regardless.

 

he did come out and argue. Im not sure why getting himself ejected makes everything better.

 

Besides, Angel Hernandez always does his own thing, you arent gonna win when he screws up

[The Ginger Kid]

Sox have been playing some solid baseball since RV got fired.

[chitownsportsfan]

lol. So he should take the umpires mistake, and turn it into an even bigger mistake by getting kicked out of the game? The reality is that the umpire is the final authority and if he screws up, there isn't much you can do about it. Compounding the error by trying to show up the umpire isn't going to help the team, and in fact will probably just piss him off against your team.

 

RV is like the kid that keeps getting in trouble and can't get off probation. At a certain point the kid says "stuff just keeps happening to me I don't get it" and it's up to someone to tell him about the two types of people in this world.

 

RV is one that lets things happen.

 

I'm not harping on some minor point like reliever usage -- this was a huge error. Jim, at SSS, who prior to this year has mainly toed the line of "get him better players" called it nothing less than "Ventura's Bevington moment".

 

The As broadcast crew was shocked as well. It was a bad mistake however it happened and I'm of the opinion that RV will continue to let this sort of thing happen. So Hernandez pointed, how about you know asking him "hey, has the PH been announced?" before you make the call to the pen.

 

The entire thing was bizarre with Cooper on the mound. Is RV too lethargic to even walk out to make the change himself anymore? Just a cluster no wonder RV let himself get played.

Edited May 18, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[southsider2k5]

he did come out and argue. Im not sure why getting himself ejected makes everything better.

 

Besides, Angel Hernandez always does his own thing, you arent gonna win when he screws up

 

The FIRE and the PASSION!

[southsider2k5]

RV is like the kid that keeps getting in trouble and can't get off probation. At a certain point the kid says "stuff just keeps happening to me I don't get it" and it's up to someone to tell him about the two types of people in this world.

 

RV is one that lets things happen.

I'm not harping on some minor point like reliever usage -- this was a huge error. Jim, at SSS, who prior to this year has mainly toed the line of "get him better players" called it nothing less than "Ventura's Bevington moment".

 

The As broadcast crew was shocked as well. It was a bad mistake however it happened and I'm of the opinion that RV will continue to let this sort of thing happen. So Hernandez pointed, how about you know asking him "hey, has the PH been announced?" before you make the call to the pen.

The entire thing was bizarre with Cooper on the mound. Is RV too lethargic to even walk out to make the change himself anymore? Just a cluster no wonder RV let himself get played.

 

All of this is based on the ignorance of the fact that the umpire screwed up.

[Eminor3rd]

To me the question is easy. Would the Sox have had a 9-3 run if Ventura had been fired?

 

Which is completely unanswerable.

[Jerksticks]

I would add onto this and go a step further. I think with some guys, it was trying to do too much that was part of the issue.

Absolutely. And this causes nervous men to react like children. There was a lot of hype coming into the season so a bit of frustration was warranted, but since we have such a cool-headed man at the helm, the calm fan knew it was only a matter of time. Robin is good. The players are relaxed now.

[ILMOU]

Absolutely. And this causes nervous men to react like children. There was a lot of hype coming into the season so a bit of frustration was warranted, but since we have such a cool-headed man at the helm, the calm fan knew it was only a matter of time. Robin is good. The players are relaxed now.

Recent good play does not excuse the total lack of urgency, preparedness, intelligence and focus, in comparison to our divisional rivals, that the ream exhibited early on, after 40 days of ST.. AND those games count just the same, and may well prevent a playoff appearance in 2015.

 

The ledger has not indicated that Robin is good - and I'm not talking only about W-L.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen

[Dick Allen]

Recent good play does not excuse the total lack of urgency, preparedness, intelligence and focus, in comparison to our divisional rivals, that the ream exhibited early on, after 40 days of ST.. AND those games count just the same, and may well prevent a playoff appearance in 2015.

 

The ledger has not indicated that Robin is good - and I'm not talking only about W-L.

Lack of urgency? Were you watching the games?

Edited May 18, 2015 by Dick Allen

[ILMOU]

Lack of urgency? Were you watching the games?

Haha, and yes.

 

And since you brought it up, they still haven't achieved a proper level of baserunning aggression. More hesitation/too-timid blunders to come undoubtedly.

[Dick Allen]

Haha, and yes.

 

And since you brought it up, they still haven't achieved a proper level of baserunning aggression. More hesitation/too-timid blunders to come undoubtedly.

I disagree. Overly aggressive, trying to make too much happen. It was dumb, but not a lack of urgency. The exact opposite IMO.

 

In fact one of the things Levine mentioned in the new hands on approach was green lights were being taken away from some players.

 

Eaton and Sanchez turned routine singles into doubles yesterday.

 

Edited May 18, 2015 by Dick Allen

[ILMOU]

I disagree. Overly aggressive, trying to make too much happen. It was dumb, but not a lack of urgency. The exact opposite IMO.

 

In fact one of the things Levine mentioned in the new hands on approach was green lights were being taken away from some players.

 

Eaton and Sanchez turned routine singles into doubles yesterday.

I didn't clarify properly - they are now, imo, in a state of over compensation for the too-aggressive early blunders, and it's just a bad baserunning team of a different type. Still potentially costly.

 

And I don't associate the over-aggression with urgency, just stupidity. By urgency, I'm meaning "these games count now - time to bring it" What I saw was "extended spring training".

 

And yes, Eaton, at least may be snapping out of it.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen

[fathom]

In fact one of the things Levine mentioned in the new hands on approach was green lights were being taken away from some players.

 

It looks like they took the green light away from Avi on the bases.

[Dick Allen]

It looks like they took the green light away from Avi on the bases.

He did go through a stop sign the other night. One thing I have noticed, is Avi seems to be playing better defense the last week or so. IMO, it would behuge if he could be average with that arm.

[fathom]

He did go through a stop sign the other night. One thing I have noticed, is Avi seems to be playing better defense the last week or so. IMO, it would behuge if he could be average with that arm.

 

I meant in terms of trying to steal bases. Had a few chances over the weekend, and he didn't take off once.

[ILMOU]

He did go through a stop sign the other night. One thing I have noticed, is Avi seems to be playing better defense the last week or so. IMO, it would behuge if he could be average with that arm.

The defensive improvement is a big positive sign for AvI and the OF defense. It really went south with all the bulk he was carrying last year, but I've always thought he was capable of competence or better, as long as he can move with some agility.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen

[fathom]

The defensive improvement is a big positive sign for AvI and the OF defense. It really went south with all the bulk he was carrying last year, but I've always thought he was capable of competence or better, as long as he can move with some agility.

 

He looks so much better going towards the line. There were actually a few catches over the weekend where he got a good enough jump to use his speed to close on the ball.

[chitownsportsfan]

He looks so much better going towards the line. There were actually a few catches over the weekend where he got a good enough jump to use his speed to close on the ball.

 

It's ironic I read a scouting report on Avi from 2011 and the report was "strong armed natural athlete in RF that takes great routes but probably won't ever hit enough to be anything more than a solid regular".

 

Not exactly the most accurate scouting report. If anything, it's now "defense won't ever be average so even if he hits his upside is solid regular".

 

I still have hope he can turn into a 4 WAR all around stud. We'll see.

Edited May 18, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Jerksticks]

I feel like a lot of fans are forgetting that this is still a young team with developing players. Add a bunch of vets on top of that. I get that there needs to be a gelling process, and guessing how long that would take would have been short-sighted, and assuming that wouldbe done by the end of ST would have been extremely short-sighted.

 

These are some young ass dudes for the most part at a lot of key positions.

 

The Jose Abreu effect is strong. Made the FO spend money and made some fans demand perfection out of the gate. This is the most fun team we've had to watch in a while. Chill out maf***as.

[Texsox]

^^ I've been criticized in the past for my point of view, but at some point to be a fan of any team, you have to enjoy the games, win or lose. By this I mean if you only have fun watching the game when your team wins, you will be really unhappy for a lot of time. You'll be watching 70-90 games a year that you will hate, will make you really unhappy, mad, etc. Why? Like above, it's a young team that will struggle, will have a few streaks, and maybe win something. The process may get frustrating, maddening, but over all patience and a love for the process, really helps make the summer. Already for the 2000s the Sox have lost 1200+ games. Do you really want to be throwing s*** at your TV mad for thousands of games in your life time?

[caulfield12]

^^ I've been criticized in the past for my point of view, but at some point to be a fan of any team, you have to enjoy the games, win or lose. By this I mean if you only have fun watching the game when your team wins, you will be really unhappy for a lot of time. You'll be watching 70-90 games a year that you will hate, will make you really unhappy, mad, etc. Why? Like above, it's a young team that will struggle, will have a few streaks, and maybe win something. The process may get frustrating, maddening, but over all patience and a love for the process, really helps make the summer. Already for the 2000s the Sox have lost 1200+ games. Do you really want to be throwing s*** at your TV mad for thousands of games in your life time?

 

 

Are Bulls fans "happy"?

 

Look how many times they've qualified for the the playoffs recently, to the point where this season is considered a great underachievement? I'm sure if you go back to the beginning of the Jordan years in the mid 80's, they've qualified for the playoffs around 20-22 times, right? The White Sox have been around as a franchise since the turn of the century and have only made it NINE (9) times.

 

When you are only looking to be entertained and have given up the idea that your team can realistically make the playoffs more than once a decade, it's a pretty bleak situation for fans.

 

To earn the trust and respect of fans, you have to win sometimes. That's why the Blackhawks are so successful as a franchise.

 

In summary, it would be much easier to enjoy the games if they didn't consistently sabotage themselves somehow defensively, on the basepaths, with the lack of fundamental execution (most players can't even be bothered to be called upon to sacrifice bunt...at least, in that situation, you should know OTHER ways to adjust and get the job done), etc.

 

We can enjoy Abreu, Robertson and Sale...watching Eaton and Avi grow/develop/mature, but it has hardly been a "fun" season so far for most fans and that's notwithstanding all of our come from behind wins so far (which won't hold up, being a statistical anomaly/small sample size, etc.)

 

 

[cabiness42]

Are Bulls fans "happy"?

 

Look how many times they've qualified for the the playoffs recently, to the point where this season is considered a great underachievement? I'm sure if you go back to the beginning of the Jordan years in the mid 80's, they've qualified for the playoffs around 20-22 times, right? The White Sox have been around as a franchise since the turn of the century and have only made it NINE (9) times.

 

When you are only looking to be entertained and have given up the idea that your team can realistically make the playoffs more than once a decade, it's a pretty bleak situation for fans.

 

To earn the trust and respect of fans, you have to win sometimes. That's why the Blackhawks are so successful as a franchise.

 

In summary, it would be much easier to enjoy the games if they didn't consistently sabotage themselves somehow defensively, on the basepaths, with the lack of fundamental execution (most players can't even be bothered to be called upon to sacrifice bunt...at least, in that situation, you should know OTHER ways to adjust and get the job done), etc.

 

We can enjoy Abreu, Robertson and Sale...watching Eaton and Avi grow/develop/mature, but it has hardly been a "fun" season so far for most fans and that's notwithstanding all of our come from behind wins so far (which won't hold up, being a statistical anomaly/small sample size, etc.)

 

I would call that an apples to oranges comparison, but it's really more of an apples to hippopotamuses comparison. 53% of NBA teams make the playoffs. Until two years ago, 27% of MLB teams made the playoffs.

[southsider2k5]

I would call that an apples to oranges comparison, but it's really more of an apples to hippopotamuses comparison. 53% of NBA teams make the playoffs. Until two years ago, 27% of MLB teams made the playoffs.

 

And for a large chunk of that time it was more like 10-15% of teams making the playoffs in MLB. It would be interesting to see what the Sox success rate would have been with 8 teams in the AL making the playoffs.