illinilaw08 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 11:31 PM) And it's got SOME talent coming back. Now would be the time to change. I've been a fairly consistent Groce apologist on this board, but if you are going to move on, this offseason is the time to do it. Assuming no major attrition, hypothetical new coach is coming into a situation with a lot of returning talent (and finally a point guard!). This is, of course, assuming that there is an AD in place and the university can competently make a hire by early May. Because of the amount of scholarships to be replaced in '17, the new coach will need time to develop relationships and bring in, at the very least, a competent class that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 You guys really make the situation sound a lot worse than it is at Illinois. This was a tournament team at full strength, but last night they played with one starter on the road at MSU. Of course they were going to look like s***. In a vacuum, I still think Groce is a good enough coach to win at Illinois. However, it's not a vacuum, and three straight tournament misses is probably too much to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (gatnom @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 11:10 AM) You guys really make the situation sound a lot worse than it is at Illinois. This was a tournament team at full strength, but last night they played with one starter on the road at MSU. Of course they were going to look like s***. In a vacuum, I still think Groce is a good enough coach to win at Illinois. However, it's not a vacuum, and three straight tournament misses is probably too much to overcome. We are about to miss the tourney for the 6th time in the last 9 years and we haven't been to the Sweet 16 since the Final 4 season. The last time we were competitive for a Big 10 title and on a national level was Dee Brown's senior year. Since Dee graduated we have won 2 NCAA tourney games and our seeds in that stretch were 12 (one of the last teams in the field and could have easily been left out), 5 seed (our best team post Dee and while that team was very solid they were also genuinely painful to watch play and failed to score 40 points twice that year), 9 seed and 7 seed. So basically one team in the last 10 years that was a top 25 type team and that team couldn't score. Illinois basketball is in pretty awful shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) We are about to miss the tourney for the 6th time in the last 9 years and we haven't been to the Sweet 16 since the Final 4 season. The last time we were competitive for a Big 10 title and on a national level was Dee Brown's senior year. Since Dee graduated we have won 2 NCAA tourney games and our seeds in that stretch were 12 (one of the last teams in the field and could have easily been left out), 5 seed (our best team post Dee and while that team was very solid they were also genuinely painful to watch play and failed to score 40 points twice that year), 9 seed and 7 seed. So basically one team in the last 10 years that was a top 25 type team and that team couldn't score. Illinois basketball is in pretty awful shape. What it is and what it has been for 10 years are two different things. Now, this team at full strength isn't anything resembling a national title contender, but it is solidly a tournament team. Whether having a team in the tournament in year 4 of the Groce era would have been considered "awful" shape is a matter of personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I don't buy at all that this is a solid tournament team even at full health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) I don't buy at all that this is a solid tournament team even at full health. You don't think the inside presence from Thorne, rebounding from black, and lack of being Jaylon Tate from Abrams makes this a tournament team? In a down year for the B1G? We hung with Iowa state for the one half we had Thorne, and we lost by one @Providence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 05:07 PM) I don't buy at all that this is a solid tournament team even at full health. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 12:07 PM) I don't buy at all that this is a solid tournament team even at full health. Talent wise it would unquestionably be a solid tournament team but I've lost all confidence in Groce actually getting them there. Bottom line is that we have had two s***ty coaches in a row and until that changes I have no hope for the program. This athletic director hire is just remarkably important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 11:32 AM) Talent wise it would unquestionably be a solid tournament team but I've lost all confidence in Groce actually getting them there. Bottom line is that we have had two s***ty coaches in a row and until that changes I have no hope for the program. This athletic director hire is just remarkably important. Basketball schools shouldnt continuously miss the tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 11:52 AM) Basketball schools shouldnt continuously miss the tournament I was curious about the history for Illinois and looked it up. From 1993 to 2007, they made the tournament every year but one, winning at least one game there in all but 3 appearances. Since then, 3 appearances (2009, 2011, 2013), 2-3 record in those three tourneys in the 8 seasons since. Not the worst in the Big 10, but a significant drop-off. Not sure I'd call it "continually miss the tournament" either though, as there have only be one or two year gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) Basketball schools shouldnt continuously miss the tournament I have literally no idea what point you are trying to make other than agreeing that we've hired two s***ty coaches in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (gatnom @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 11:10 AM) You guys really make the situation sound a lot worse than it is at Illinois. This was a tournament team at full strength, but last night they played with one starter on the road at MSU. Of course they were going to look like s***. In a vacuum, I still think Groce is a good enough coach to win at Illinois. However, it's not a vacuum, and three straight tournament misses is probably too much to overcome. I actually don't disagree with any of this. The problem is that the Class of '17 is hugely important for the future of the program. Assuming Thorne and Tracy get 6th years, you are replacing 6 scholarships in the '17 class. It's also a class that is strong south of I-80 which has always been the best recruiting spot for Illinois. The question to me is what does the Illinois brand look like right now and can Groce sell that brand to the '17 class? I'm beyond hoping that this team can turn things around this year, and I've come to grips with the fact that this team might struggle to make the NIT. But there are a lot of good bones here. Next year will have talented seniors (Nunn and Hill at least), two Sophs who have shown that they can, at the very least, score at the B1G level (JCL and Finke) and a talented freshman PG in addition to Thorne (hopefully), a healthy Black, and two Soph 4 stars (Jordan and DJW). There's plenty of reason to be optimistic about next year's team. But if it's a one-off, 6 guys leave, and the '17 class is a disaster, then you are right back at square one. In the alternative, if Groce isn't the guy, you are giving the new coach a much stronger roster than Groce inherited and time to bring in a good class in '17. To me, the fundamental question then is this - is Illinois so broken that Groce can't bring in a good class in '17. We can't do the Illinois thing where you hold on to coaches for too long (see the last 3 football coaches and Webber) leaving the program in shambles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (gatnom @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 11:14 AM) You don't think the inside presence from Thorne, rebounding from black, and lack of being Jaylon Tate from Abrams makes this a tournament team? In a down year for the B1G? We hung with Iowa state for the one half we had Thorne, and we lost by one @Providence. They were a blown layup and tip dunk away from winning that providence game too. And they still weren't healthy. I understand doubting Groce, but that team would be too talented not to make it if they were fully healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 12:56 PM) I was curious about the history for Illinois and looked it up. From 1993 to 2007, they made the tournament every year but one, winning at least one game there in all but 3 appearances. Since then, 3 appearances (2009, 2011, 2013), 2-3 record in those three tourneys in the 8 seasons since. Not the worst in the Big 10, but a significant drop-off. Not sure I'd call it "continually miss the tournament" either though, as there have only be one or two year gaps. Well, this is going to be year 3 in a row without a berth. And since Dee graduated, Illinois has been a 5 seed or better only once. In my lifetime, the only comparable bad period for Illinois basketball was the probation era Henson years, and even that might not have been as bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) I actually don't disagree with any of this. The problem is that the Class of '17 is hugely important for the future of the program. Assuming Thorne and Tracy get 6th years, you are replacing 6 scholarships in the '17 class. I think Thorne is going to be back pretty soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (Boogua @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) I think Thorne is going to be back pretty soon Yeah, I think the staff knows it needs to start winning games and fast, since the only thing that guarantees their jobs for another year is making the tournament. Plus, they are probably pretty confident in landing another 5th year guy if they need to since there are so many transfers every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 12:14 PM) I have literally no idea what point you are trying to make other than agreeing that we've hired two s***ty coaches in a row. I'm agreeing with you. Enough should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) I'm agreeing with you. Enough should be enough. Got it. Yep, I will be incredibly pissed if Groce is back next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 03:47 PM) Got it. Yep, I will be incredibly pissed if Groce is back next year. I dunno. Between the corrupt state, the carousel in the administration, misguided loyalty to a dead symbol at the expense of the school, and an all around disgusting athletic department highlighted by a terrible football problem, I can't find space to care about whether or not a generally classy coach still has his job. Edited January 8, 2016 by AustinIllini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 03:47 PM) Got it. Yep, I will be incredibly pissed if Groce is back next year. You better start preparing yourself. Unless they go winless in the big ten or something, there's no way he's fired. I agree with you that he's earned it, and the time is right, but I don't trust the school to do ANYTHING right anymore when it comes to athletics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Bryce Drew and Roger Powell make too much sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 09:22 PM) Bryce Drew and Roger Powell make too much sense For Illinois? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Bloomington baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 10, 2016 -> 04:20 AM) Bloomington baby I am guessing it was a long drive home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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