PK number retirement game 5/23 almost sold out

[shysocks]

i stand corrected

But I mean there are definite opportunities for a Pokemon-inspired Belisario. I'll table that one.

[Thad Bosley]

So let's see, what are we learning here. You give our oft-maligned fan base - you know, the one that allegedly employs every excuse in the world not to come to the ballpark - you give them a "compelling" reason to do so, in this case to pay tribute to a franchise hero, and they pack the place. Not a seat to be had! All of the excuses - poof! Gone! They disappear into thin air!

 

Hmmm...kinda sorta makes your mind wander a bit, perhaps even dream, doesn't it? Makes you wonder if another "compelling" reason were to occur, say, oh, I don't know, maybe if a more consistently WINNING product was put on the field, just what might happen then. I don't know, but it sure would be nice to find out one of these days!

Edited May 22, 2015 by Thad Bosley

[southsider2k5]

So let's see, what are we learning here. You give our oft-maligned fan base - you know, the one that allegedly employs every excuse in the world not to come to the ballpark - you give them a "compelling" reason to do so, in this case to pay tribute to a franchise hero, and they pack the place. Not a seat to be had! All of the excuses - poof! Gone! They disappear into thin air!

 

Hmmm...kinda sorta makes your mind wander a bit, perhaps even dream, doesn't it? Makes you wonder if another "compelling" reason were to occur, say, oh, I don't know, maybe if a more consistently WINNING product was put on the field, just what might happen then. I don't know, but it sure would be nice to find out one of these days!

 

So the list is now once in a life time player getting his number retired, and once in a franchise history run of playoff runs to get fans to show up. Color me not too impressed with this.

[Thad Bosley]

So the list is now once in a life time player getting his number retired, and once in a franchise history run of playoff runs to get fans to show up. Color me not too impressed with this.

Nor am I impressed with your backwards reasoning on all of this. You are the one talking about "lists" and these alleged excuses fans make for not going to the ballpark, not me, as if you've actually surveyed the entire Sox fan base to come up with these conclusions.

 

Meanwhile, I continue to make the very logical point that if you give our fans a compelling reason to come out, they will. Case in point, this Saturday. A good reason to come out, and the fans are eagerly responding. They will respond the same to a team that wins on a more consistent basis than the garbage that has been served up recently by the Sox and for 30 of the 35 years under the current ownership. I mean, what freaking fan base doesn't react well to winning! Do you think our fans don't care about winning? Of course they do, just like every other fan base on this planet. That's common sense, but unfortunately it's a little hard at the moment to prove to your doubting mind because we are in a 35 year franchise slump under Mr. Reinsdorf's leadership, where during that timeframe there's only really been one year of real winning worth talking about.

[Dick Allen]

Nor am I impressed with your backwards reasoning on all of this. You are the one talking about "lists" and these alleged excuses fans make for not going to the ballpark, not me, as if you've actually surveyed the entire Sox fan base to come up with these conclusions.

 

Meanwhile, I continue to make the very logical point that if you give our fans a compelling reason to come out, they will. Case in point, this Saturday. A good reason to come out, and the fans are eagerly responding. They will respond the same to a team that wins on a more consistent basis than the garbage that has been served up recently by the Sox and for 30 of the 35 years under the current ownership. I mean, what freaking fan base doesn't react well to winning! Do you think our fans don't care about winning? Of course they do, just like every other fan base on this planet. That's common sense, but unfortunately it's a little hard at the moment to prove to your doubting mind because we are in a 35 year franchise slump under Mr. Reinsdorf's leadership, where during that timeframe there's only really been one year of real winning worth talking about.

2012 there was a very compelling reason to come out, but fewer came out than in 2011. Funny people want to pack the park to see him now but didn't really care when he was hitting almost.400.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[SouthSidePride05]

2012 there was a very compelling reason to come out, but fewer came out than in 2011. Funny people want to pack the park to see him now but didn't really care when he was hitting almost.400.

 

People just want to experience a packed ballpark. If it's sold out, it creates an atmosphere that's worth going to.

 

[southsider2k5]

Nor am I impressed with your backwards reasoning on all of this. You are the one talking about "lists" and these alleged excuses fans make for not going to the ballpark, not me, as if you've actually surveyed the entire Sox fan base to come up with these conclusions.

 

Meanwhile, I continue to make the very logical point that if you give our fans a compelling reason to come out, they will. Case in point, this Saturday. A good reason to come out, and the fans are eagerly responding. They will respond the same to a team that wins on a more consistent basis than the garbage that has been served up recently by the Sox and for 30 of the 35 years under the current ownership. I mean, what freaking fan base doesn't react well to winning! Do you think our fans don't care about winning? Of course they do, just like every other fan base on this planet. That's common sense, but unfortunately it's a little hard at the moment to prove to your doubting mind because we are in a 35 year franchise slump under Mr. Reinsdorf's leadership, where during that timeframe there's only really been one year of real winning worth talking about.

 

I love the way you casually refer to this as as if it were something obvious, like we have a pile of Paul Konerko's sitting around that we are leaving attendance on the table by failing to honor, as if we haven't had two Paul Konerko days in something like the last 20 or 25 home games or something.

 

Yes the fans will show up to see one of the best players in franchise history get his number retired. I will add that to the list of multiple playoff runs in a row you have given me as reasons Sox fans will show up at the ballpark.

 

I am now up to 2 reasons Sox fans will show up at the ballpark. I will have to get back to you on how many reasons they won't show up...

[Iwritecode]

once in a franchise history run of playoff runs

 

You keep dismissing this like it's some unobtainable feat. Yet every other team in the division has done it at least once. The Royals last good run was in the late 70's to the early 80's but it did happen.

 

The Indians in the 90's, the Twins in the 2000's and the Tigers just recently.

 

I don't think anyone expects them to be the Yankees, Braves or Cardinals who seemed to be there every single year. Just get there two years in a row or even 2 out of 4 years. These once in a decade appearances just aren't working.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

You keep dismissing this like it's some unobtainable feat. Yet every other team in the division has done it at least once. The Royals last good run was in the late 70's to the early 80's but it did happen.

 

The Indians in the 90's, the Twins in the 2000's and the Tigers just recently.

 

I don't think anyone expects them to be the Yankees, Braves or Cardinals who seemed to be there every single year. Just get there two years in a row or even 2 out of 4 years. These once in a decade appearances just aren't working.

2 out of 4 years? Check.

 

2005 and 2008.

 

Attendance went down in 2008 from 2007.

 

They were in first place most of 2012, yet attendance was down from 2011 which was down from 2010.

 

I don't agree with ss2k5 all that often, but he couldn't be more right. No one is obligated to go to games, but quit complaining about not making the playoffs 3 or 4 years in a row when you don't show up and support successful teams.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

You keep dismissing this like it's some unobtainable feat. Yet every other team in the division has done it at least once. The Royals last good run was in the late 70's to the early 80's but it did happen.

 

The Indians in the 90's, the Twins in the 2000's and the Tigers just recently.

 

I don't think anyone expects them to be the Yankees, Braves or Cardinals who seemed to be there every single year. Just get there two years in a row or even 2 out of 4 years. These once in a decade appearances just aren't working.

 

All three of those runs by those teams were the best runs in their franchise history.

[gatnom]

Is there a fan base out there that hates itself more than ours?

 

 

[glangon]

Is there a fan base out there that hates itself more than ours?

 

The Red Sox fan base are pretty down on themselves at the moment. I've seen people wanting to set Buchholz on fire. We're down on ourselves but not that bad

[Iwritecode]

2 out of 4 years? Check.

 

2005 and 2008.

 

Attendance went down in 2008 from 2007.

 

They were in first place most of 2012, yet attendance was down from 2011 which was down from 2010.

 

I probably worded that badly but I was thinking at least every other year.

 

I don't agree with ss2k5 all that often, but he couldn't be more right. No one is obligated to go to games, but quit complaining about not making the playoffs 3 or 4 years in a row when you don't show up and support successful teams.

 

Successful teams make the playoffs 3 or 4 years in a row.

[Iwritecode]

All three of those runs by those teams were the best runs in their franchise history.

 

And their attendance went up during those runs. Then afterward, attendance went down.

 

Fans not showing up to watch a team that doesn't consistently win is not something strictly limited to the Chicago White Sox fan-base contrary to what some people seem to think.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Iwritecode

[southsider2k5]

I probably worded that badly but I was thinking at least every other year.

 

 

 

Successful teams make the playoffs 3 or 4 years in a row.

 

By that definition the Dodgers (including both Brooklyn and LA) and Cubs have never been a "successful" team, in their entire franchise histories. The Twins have been a "successful team" once in their entire history, going back all of the way to 1901 as the Washington Senators, as have the Tigers, Royals, and Indians.

 

Just like I said, what is being asked here is what has been done once in 115 years by 3 teams, and never by two others. When I said the standard that is once in a franchise history, I meant it.

[3GamesToLove]

It's pretty rare for a baseball team to make the postseason three or four years in a row.

[Dick Allen]

The obvious question would be if the team had to go on these multi year playoff runs to bring in fans, how the hell did anyone here ever become a White Sox fan?

[shysocks]

The obvious question would be if the team had to go on these multi year playoff runs to bring in fans, how the hell did anyone here ever become a White Sox fan?

The people here aren't the problem, all of us either live out of town or likely go to games far more frequently than the average fan. Casual fans are who don't attend Sox games, and there is a variety of reasons they've decided not to that are up to them, but the most important one is the team's performance. If the Sox won more, those people would show up more, and I don't really know how that can be disputed. People want to see and associate with a winner, as I illustrated by citing Blackhawks attendance in the other thread but people seemed to either not understand or retort in a smartass manner "SO THE SOX NEED TO BE A DYNASTY FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO GAMES, GOT IT."

[southsider2k5]

The people here aren't the problem, all of us either live out of town or likely go to games far more frequently than the average fan. Casual fans are who don't attend Sox games, and there is a variety of reasons they've decided not to that are up to them, but the most important one is the team's performance. If the Sox won more, those people would show up more, and I don't really know how that can be disputed. People want to see and associate with a winner, as I illustrated by citing Blackhawks attendance in the other thread but people seemed to either not understand or retort in a smartass manner "SO THE SOX NEED TO BE A DYNASTY FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO GAMES, GOT IT."

 

The reason attendance is an issue, is it creates many of the issues that people are complaining about, and they don't see the connection between the two things. The White Sox are limited in the types of approaches they can make to building a team because of their fan base. If you are OK with the fan base, you have to be OK with the limitations it puts on the franchise. It is reality. The problem is when the other side of the coin gets mentioned, it inevitably moves on to the smartass responses about ownership, without any acknowledgement of what role attendance actually plays to the success of the franchise.

[Dick Allen]

The people here aren't the problem, all of us either live out of town or likely go to games far more frequently than the average fan. Casual fans are who don't attend Sox games, and there is a variety of reasons they've decided not to that are up to them, but the most important one is the team's performance. If the Sox won more, those people would show up more, and I don't really know how that can be disputed. People want to see and associate with a winner, as I illustrated by citing Blackhawks attendance in the other thread but people seemed to either not understand or retort in a smartass manner "SO THE SOX NEED TO BE A DYNASTY FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO GAMES, GOT IT."

The people here are the problem though. Read a gamethread, they are beyond ridiculous, and the people here are making excuses for others not showing up. Again, no one has an obligation to attend games, but if your in first place all summer long and can't draw, and going back to 2005, when the White Sox were never not in first place, draw about 50,000 total during a 3 game series in September, a little over a month before you win a WS, there is a problem. On other boards they blame crap like size of video screens, parking lot attendants not smiling, and say Brooks Boyer is bad at his job. I think he's great at his job. He listens, comes up with the ideas the fans supposedly want. Green seats, cheaper tickets, lower deck access, etc. IMO no team tries harder than the White Sox to sell tickets. I will ultimately have tickets to about 40 games this year with a ton of perks, at a price the Schaumburg Boomers couldn't match.

[Thad Bosley]

I love the way you casually refer to this as as if it were something obvious, like we have a pile of Paul Konerko's sitting around that we are leaving attendance on the table by failing to honor, as if we haven't had two Paul Konerko days in something like the last 20 or 25 home games or something.

 

Yes the fans will show up to see one of the best players in franchise history get his number retired. I will add that to the list of multiple playoff runs in a row you have given me as reasons Sox fans will show up at the ballpark.

 

I am now up to 2 reasons Sox fans will show up at the ballpark. I will have to get back to you on how many reasons they won't show up...

You seem to be a reigning authority on these "reasons" or "excuses" you think explain why Sox fans don't show up in droves to the ballpark. You also take the liberty in painting in broad strokes to suggest that the majority of the fan base employs these excuses. How then, pray tell, do you know this to be true. How do you reach your conclusion that the reason for low attendance is a result of an excuse-making fan base? What body of evidence can you point to back up your claim? I say the reason for low attendance is the cumulative effect of a franchise that simply hasn't won enough to generate and sustain enough interest to encourage people to buy more tickets. I can point to 30 of 35 years of non-winning by this current ownership group to support my theory. What about you? Where is your definitive evidence that our fan base is a bunch of excuse makers? Hours and hours of listening to sports radio? Where is it!

[southsider2k5]

You seem to be a reigning authority on these "reasons" or "excuses" you think explain why Sox fans don't show up in droves to the ballpark. You also take the liberty in painting in broad strokes to suggest that the majority of the fan base employs these excuses. How then, pray tell, do you know this to be true. How do you reach your conclusion that the reason for low attendance is a result of an excuse-making fan base? What body of evidence can you point to back up your claim? I say the reason for low attendance is the cumulative effect of a franchise that simply hasn't won enough to generate and sustain enough interest to encourage people to buy more tickets. I can point to 30 of 35 years of non-winning by this current ownership group to support my theory. What about you? Where is your definitive evidence that our fan base is a bunch of excuse makers? Hours and hours of listening to sports radio? Where is it!

 

Apparently you don't read anything that doesn't fit your pre-set agenda. I have even compared our attendance to other teams, including Detroit, to make the point. Even after two of the worst seasons in the entire franchises history, their attendance went up after a 72 win season. Ours goes down after a playoff run.

 

We have a small and bandwagon fan base. Nothing you have said disproves any of that. In fact much of what you say about what it takes to get fans to actually show up only reinforces that.

 

And no, I don't listen to sports talk radio. The last thing I need is to listen to hours of meatball fans complaining about everything under the sun.

[Dick Allen]

You seem to be a reigning authority on these "reasons" or "excuses" you think explain why Sox fans don't show up in droves to the ballpark. You also take the liberty in painting in broad strokes to suggest that the majority of the fan base employs these excuses. How then, pray tell, do you know this to be true. How do you reach your conclusion that the reason for low attendance is a result of an excuse-making fan base? What body of evidence can you point to back up your claim? I say the reason for low attendance is the cumulative effect of a franchise that simply hasn't won enough to generate and sustain enough interest to encourage people to buy more tickets. I can point to 30 of 35 years of non-winning by this current ownership group to support my theory. What about you? Where is your definitive evidence that our fan base is a bunch of excuse makers? Hours and hours of listening to sports radio? Where is it!

Explain why fans did not come out in 2012 if winning solves everything and they were in first place almost all summer long? I love this 30-35 years of not winning anything crap. Apparently you forgot the White Sox won the WS in 2005. The first and last WS title by an AL Central team since 1991.

[Thad Bosley]

Apparently you don't read anything that doesn't fit your pre-set agenda. I have even compared our attendance to other teams, including Detroit, to make the point. Even after two of the worst seasons in the entire franchises history, their attendance went up after a 72 win season. Ours goes down after a playoff run.

 

We have a small and bandwagon fan base. Nothing you have said disproves any of that. In fact much of what you say about what it takes to get fans to actually show up only reinforces that.

 

And no, I don't listen to sports talk radio. The last thing I need is to listen to hours of meatball fans complaining about everything under the sun.

Comparing our attendance to that of Detroit does nothing to add to what we are talking about here about our attendance problems. And apparently you are not reading anything that doesn't fit your own pre-set agenda, either, which is to blame attendance on fans making excuses, because you were asked to back that claim up with evidence and you didn't. Whatever.

 

In the meantime, we agree to disagree. The club has a very bad attendance problem. I optimistically suggest that would be fixed over time with more sustained winning. That's what I believe to be true. You don't agree, which is fine, and I don't care if you do or not. You're entitled to your opinion. But if what you say is, in fact, true, that sustained winning won't solve the problem, and you are convinced the "small bandwagon" fan base just won't show up for one excuse or another, then Mr. Reinsdorf ought to think about selling the current ballpark that seats 40,000 and building one that only seats 20,000, because to your way of thinking, that's all he'll ever need.

[Dick Allen]

Comparing our attendance to that of Detroit does nothing to add to what we are talking about here about our attendance problems. And apparently you are not reading anything that doesn't fit your own pre-set agenda, either, which is to blame attendance on fans making excuses, because you were asked to back that claim up with evidence and you didn't. Whatever.

 

In the meantime, we agree to disagree. The club has a very bad attendance problem. I optimistically suggest that would be fixed over time with more sustained winning. That's what I believe to be true. You don't agree, which is fine, and I don't care if you do or not. You're entitled to your opinion. But if what you say is, in fact, true, that sustained winning won't solve the problem, and you are convinced the "small bandwagon" fan base just won't show up for one excuse or another, then Mr. Reinsdorf ought to think about selling the current ballpark that seats 40,000 and building one that only seats 20,000, because to your way of thinking, that's all he'll ever need.

What you propose it takes for people to show up is the precise definition of bandwagon fans.

 

Since JR owned the team, 8 teams have more titles: Dodgers, Cardinals, Marlins, Giants, Twins, Blue Jays, Yankees, Red Sox.

 

11 have fewer:

Rays, Indians, Astros, Mariners, Rangers, Nationals/Expos/Cubs, Pirates, Brewers, Padres, Rockies.

 

I think his ownership is far from the disaster some want to make it.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Dick Allen