PK number retirement game 5/23 almost sold out

[flavum]

I wonder if the living Sox with retired numbers will be there...besides Baines. Pierce has been ill, I think I've heard. But it would be cool to see Aparicio, Fisk, and Thomas.

[Dick Allen]

FWIW, this stadium is approaching 25 years old. That puts it in the 10 oldest ballparks in the league, plus a lot of the older ones (Fenway, Wrigley, Angels, Kaufmann) have undergone major makeovers. If you drop those out since they kind of became new-ish stadiums, only really Dodgers Stadium, the Oakland Coliseum, Rogers Center, and Tropicana field are genuinely older.

It has also been almost totally renovated in the last 12 years. The Sox also have a lease they would be foolish to try to break, and the are making money. So they really aren't goimg anywhere for a while.

[Thad Bosley]

The White Sox aren't going anywhere. They have a newish stadium in the third largest market in the league. Even with trash attendance, they're the 16th most valuable franchise in the MLB, up 40% from last year. Attendance just doesn't have nearly as big of an impact on the bottom line as it used to, which is definitely a good thing for JR.

Well I'm glad that's good for JR - now I can sleep better knowing that.

 

Meanwhile, as for we the fans, since 1995, only two teams in the AL have made it as far as the Al Divisional Series fewer times than the Sox - the Blue Jays and the Royals. And eight of the teams have made it to the AL Championship Series more times. Except for 2005, the ball club has pretty much been nonexistent in the postseason for what seems like forever. There may be other reasons in play for the team's never ending attendance problem, but this is as big a reason as any. In my opinion, of course.

[southsider2k5]

That was a great ceremony. Incredible to see PK all choked up. Nice work.

[BigHurt3515]

That was a great ceremony. Incredible to see PK all choked up. Nice work.

 

Is there video of the full length ceremony

[Dick Allen]

Really? Tell me which of those numbers is incorrect?

I didn't check the numbers, they mught be correct. But Wild Card? When?

[Dick Allen]

Did the White Sox begin the season in a fashion that demonstrated to anyone they were prepared to play...or even competitive?

 

No, they got blown out by the Twins and Royals.

 

And, as we ALL know, 1983 is the only season we've improved in the second half of a season and sustained it into the playoffs.

 

And actually, those numbers were still a 25% improvement on similar dates last April and May.

 

Progress!

You do realize you were responding to your own quote I hope.

[caulfield12]

You do realize you were responding to your own quote I hope.

 

 

SIGH...

[Iwritecode]

From 2005-2010 White Sox won at least 88 games 4 times. After 2006, attendance went down every season.

 

There's a huge difference between winning a lot of games and being in first place for "most of the season" and being in first place on the last day of the season. The latter typically draws more fans in. Especially if it's done frequently in a short time period.

 

Even before that, fans were going to games in Boston. Long before they made three straight playoff appearances, fans were going to games.

 

You can nitpick on a specific number of consecutive post-season experiences all you want. I was just throwing out an example. There are lots of different ways to define success. It can be 2 years in a row. It can be 3 years in a row. It can be 3 times in 5 years. 5 times in 10 years. Something a lot of other teams in the league have done many, many times. If the Sox could manage any one of those scenarios I would bet that attendance would go up at least in the short term. But they never have.

 

Actually, I just checked. The Sox are the only AL team that has never hit any of those scenarios. The Nationals, Marlins and Rockies are the only other teams that haven't either.

 

 

How about we just try winning for a few years and see if it works? I promise to apologize if it doesn't, fair deal? We've done the 7 years without a playoff appearance experiment and it seems to be doing a poor job of filling the ballpark.

 

Agreed.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Iwritecode

[Hamhock]

Is there video of the full length ceremony

It's on the Paulie tribute page on whitesox.com:

 

http://whitesox.com/paulie

[Thad Bosley]

There's a huge difference between winning a lot of games and being in first place for "most of the season" and being in first place on the last day of the season. The latter typically draws more fans in. Especially if it's done frequently in a short time period.

 

 

 

You can nitpick on a specific number of consecutive post-season experiences all you want. I was just throwing out an example. There are lots of different ways to define success. It can be 2 years in a row. It can be 3 years in a row. It can be 3 times in 5 years. 5 times in 10 years. Something a lot of other teams in the league have done many, many times. If the Sox could manage any one of those scenarios I would bet that attendance would go up at least in the short term. But they never have.

 

Actually, I just checked. The Sox are the only AL team that has never hit any of those scenarios. The Nationals, Marlins and Rockies are the only other teams that haven't either.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

Excellent point of view!

[southsider2k5]

There's a huge difference between winning a lot of games and being in first place for "most of the season" and being in first place on the last day of the season. The latter typically draws more fans in. Especially if it's done frequently in a short time period.

 

 

 

You can nitpick on a specific number of consecutive post-season experiences all you want. I was just throwing out an example. There are lots of different ways to define success. It can be 2 years in a row. It can be 3 years in a row. It can be 3 times in 5 years. 5 times in 10 years. Something a lot of other teams in the league have done many, many times. If the Sox could manage any one of those scenarios I would bet that attendance would go up at least in the short term. But they never have.

 

Actually, I just checked. The Sox are the only AL team that has never hit any of those scenarios. The Nationals, Marlins and Rockies are the only other teams that haven't either.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

2008 sure didn't see that either.

 

[Dick Allen]

There's a huge difference between winning a lot of games and being in first place for "most of the season" and being in first place on the last day of the season. The latter typically draws more fans in. Especially if it's done frequently in a short time period.

 

 

 

You can nitpick on a specific number of consecutive post-season experiences all you want. I was just throwing out an example. There are lots of different ways to define success. It can be 2 years in a row. It can be 3 years in a row. It can be 3 times in 5 years. 5 times in 10 years. Something a lot of other teams in the league have done many, many times. If the Sox could manage any one of those scenarios I would bet that attendance would go up at least in the short term. But they never have.

 

Actually, I just checked. The Sox are the only AL team that has never hit any of those scenarios. The Nationals, Marlins and Rockies are the only other teams that haven't either.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

There's not really a huge difference if we are talking attendance. If they have to win the division for people to attend, you won't know that until it is too late. The won the division in 2008 and drew less than they did for a team that had to win several games iin September to only lose 92.

 

 

[Balta1701]

2008 sure didn't see that either.

Decrease in year-over-year ticket sales during the season:

 

2014 117592

2013 197542

2012 35162

2011 193261

2010 89785

2009 216485

2008 183747

2007 273019

 

Sorting:

 

Team below .500:

2007 273019

2009 216485

2011 193261

2014 117592

2013 197542

 

Team above .500:

2008 183747

2010 89785

2012 35162

 

Average ticket sale decrease over the last 8 seasons:

Team below .500: 199,580

 

Team above .500: 102,898

 

When the team has been above .500 the ticket sale boost from the world series has eroded at 1/2 the rate that it has in the losing seasons.

[Dick Allen]

Decrease in year-over-year ticket sales during the season:

 

2014 117592

2013 197542

2012 35162

2011 193261

2010 89785

2009 216485

2008 183747

2007 273019

 

Sorting:

 

Team below .500:

2007 273019

2009 216485

2011 193261

2014 117592

2013 197542

 

Team above .500:

2008 183747

2010 89785

2012 35162

 

Average ticket sale decrease over the last 8 seasons:

Team below .500: 199,580

 

Team above .500: 102,898

 

When the team has been above .500 the ticket sale boost from the world series has eroded at 1/2 the rate that it has in the losing seasons.

2008 also had an extra date. The fans for some reason came to that one. So in essence, the 2008 total is overstated by about 40k.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Decrease in year-over-year ticket sales during the season:

 

2014 117592

2013 197542

2012 35162

2011 193261

2010 89785

2009 216485

2008 183747

2007 273019

 

Sorting:

 

Team below .500:

2007 273019

2009 216485

2011 193261

2014 117592

2013 197542

 

Team above .500:

2008 183747

2010 89785

2012 35162

 

Average ticket sale decrease over the last 8 seasons:

Team below .500: 199,580

 

Team above .500: 102,898

 

When the team has been above .500 the ticket sale boost from the world series has eroded at 1/2 the rate that it has in the losing seasons.

 

#bandwagon

 

[Dick Allen]

That is incorrect. The total attendance including game 163 is 2544704, the total attendance number used in that calculation is 2500648. Game 163 was not counted in that total. If you count that, the dropoff is smaller that year and the impact of the losing seasons is more stark.

 

Perhaps before you assume someone's math is incorrect you should double check the count yourself.

40,354 was the attendance for the Blackout Game. So, somewhere your math, is a bit off. And according to Baseball Reference, the Sox attendance was 2,500,648 with an average of 30,496 which would be 82 dates. One more than usual. Maybe you need to take your own advise.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

40,354 was the attendance for the Blackout Game. So, somewhere your math, despite your popping off is incorrect. Just like the when you thought this was for a Wild Card.

The decrease in years where we are losing is 191,000 and the decrease in years where we're above .500 is 116,000 if I drop the blackout game out.

 

73% of the dropoff in attendance since the 2006 peak has happened in the 5 losing seasons, 27% has happened in the 3 winning seasons.

[Balta1701]

The decrease in years where we are losing is 191,000 and the decrease in years where we're above .500 is 116,000 if I drop the blackout game out.

 

73% of the dropoff in attendance since the 2006 peak has happened in the 5 losing seasons, 27% has happened in the 3 winning seasons.

If we had lost fans at the ballpark at the rate seen during >.500 seasons, starting from 2006, last year we'd have sold 376,000 more tickets. So, the losing over the last 9 seasons has so far been worth 376,000 tickets/season so far.

[Dick Allen]

The decrease in years where we are losing is 191,000 and the decrease in years where we're above .500 is 116,000 if I drop the blackout game out.

 

73% of the dropoff in attendance since the 2006 peak has happened in the 5 losing seasons, 27% has happened in the 3 winning seasons.

You can spin it however you want to spin it, but winning games, being in first place, doesn't really help all that much. Getting to the WS where people will buy packages for WS tickets does. It's too bad it takes a WS for White Sox fans to enjoy baseball. Think about it, Thad Bosley said the White Sox have had only 1 exciting season the last 35. So 90+ win seasons aren't fun, winning divisions aren't fun. It's only the WS trophy that is fun. If that is how one thinks, it is time to move on. The Braves won 1 WS and made the playoffs 15 years in a row. 1 exciting season out of 15.

[Balta1701]

You can spin it however you want to spin it, but winning games, being in first place, doesn't really help all that much. Getting to the WS where people will buy packages for WS tickets does. It's too bad it takes a WS for White Sox fans to enjoy baseball. Think about it, Thad Bosley said the White Sox have had only 1 exciting season the last 35. So 90+ win seasons aren't fun, winning divisions aren't fun. It's only the WS trophy that is fun. If that is how one thinks, it is time to move on. The Braves won 1 WS and made the playoffs 15 years in a row. 1 exciting season out of 15.

I for one think that the 90 win seasons are plenty fun. Can we try having one of those again please? This'll make 9 years without one.

 

I'm not sure that these 70 win seasons you're so thrilled with and are so adamant are completely ok are all that fun to watch.

[Iwritecode]

There's not really a huge difference if we are talking attendance. If they have to win the division for people to attend, you won't know that until it is too late. The won the division in 2008 and drew less than they did for a team that had to win several games iin September to only lose 92.

 

The problem with using 2008 as an example is that there is always some normalization in the years after a HUGE event like opening a new ballpark or winning the WS. For the most part, when the team goes to the playoffs, the attendance goes up that year.

 

Attendance in 1983 was higher than in 1982.

 

Attendance in 1993 was lower but that's because it hit an all-time high (at the time) in 1991 and was still coming back down. Although it was on pace to go higher in 1994 before the strike happened.

 

Attendance in 2000 was higher than in 1999.

 

Attendance in 2005 was higher than in 2004.

 

Attendance in 2008 was lower for much the same reasons as 1993. It hit a new all-time high in 2006 which was simply unsustainable and was still coming back to "normal". Being sandwiched between two seasons of under .500 baseball didn't help either.

 

The average attendance since the new park opened is just a tick under 2 million. 1,993,151 to be exact.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Iwritecode

[Iwritecode]

You can spin it however you want to spin it, but winning games, being in first place, doesn't really help all that much.

 

Exactly. Thank you.

 

Getting to the post-season where people will buy packages for post-season tickets does.

 

FIFY

 

 

[Thad Bosley]

You can spin it however you want to spin it, but winning games, being in first place, doesn't really help all that much. Getting to the WS where people will buy packages for WS tickets does. It's too bad it takes a WS for White Sox fans to enjoy baseball. Think about it, Thad Bosley said the White Sox have had only 1 exciting season the last 35. So 90+ win seasons aren't fun, winning divisions aren't fun. It's only the WS trophy that is fun. If that is how one thinks, it is time to move on. The Braves won 1 WS and made the playoffs 15 years in a row. 1 exciting season out of 15.

Nooooo, now don't do that. Don't put words in my mouth. Thad Bosley has never once suggested that the only thing that equals "exciting" is winning the World Series. What I've said repeatedly is that what is exciting is not only getting to the playoffs, but getting there and playing competitively, and going as deep as you can. That IS exciting! It's exciting in any sport, and that's what fans react most positively towards. My point with the Sox is that the measly other four playoff appearances outside of '05 have been anything but exciting - four total wins between the four series.

 

What a difference it felt in '05 just beating the Red Sox in the first series to anything we had experienced prior, either in '83, '93, or '00. It was on a completely different level. Our fans, experiencing all of that for the first time, loved it and craved for more the following season based on season tickets sold and overall attendance. The problem is the Sox didn't deliver. They didn't deliver in '06, certainly not in '07, made a decent go of it in '08 but were out of the playoffs all too quickly, and then everything since then has been a disaster.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Thad Bosley

[fathom]

To me, the first half of 2006 was more exciting than anything during the 2005 regular season. That was the most talented team I've ever seen in a White Sox jersey. Even the first month of last year started generating a buzz with Abreu performing like the best hitter on the planet. Remember Comcast having a special on "Abreu's April"? Abreu made the Sox a must-watch for me during the first few months of last year. I'm struggling watching entire Sox games now, so I can't imagine how casual fans feel about spending 3 hours watching a team that has to be one of the most boring teams in all of baseball.

Edited May 26, 2015 by fathom