What a putrid offense...

[harkness99]

1. No power.

2. No walks.

3. Strike out a lot...

4. don't steal bases..

 

 

Quite a successful formula....

 

 

 

 

 

[greg775]

Do the Sox front office types ever do their homework and project correctly? I mean, couldn't they watch EXTENSIVE tape of LaRoche and study perhaps 200 of last year's at bats during the cold winter months and project that maybe they should pass on a guy like that? What else the f*** do they have to do in the winter? Study some film. Call some sabes guys you trust, Bill James disciples. Have some meetings. Then Make some correct decisions.

 

Shouldn't they study a Flowers, all his at bats from a year ago and say, 'You know what? He can't hit.'

Shouldn't they study 200 at bats of Melky closely and deduce he's nothing special as well?

Ditto all the subs they picked up like Boni and Shuck? And ugh, Soto?? And determine Gillaspie is just another guy?

 

I have nothing against LaRoche but I would think a detailed study of last year's at bats (how he tries to pull everything and couple that with his age) would tell an organization, "He's not the answer."

 

The Sox get what they deserve. I'm finally to the point I'd rather see a parade of young players from our gulp, minor league system, or somebody else's play until they fail. Then move on to the next guy. I don't care if Davidson fails. I'd rather see him get called up and given a chance than watch veterans suck.

Edited May 22, 2015 by greg775

[chitownsportsfan]

I will say that I liked every signing at first blush except the LaRoche signing. Then I talked myself into it. Well, so far, he's looking like a bust and a lot of it is the Sox refusal to bench him against most LHP and play him moreso than Jose at 1B. He should be playing 1B 100 games and Jose 62, instead it's going to be like Jose 120 and LaRoche 42.

Edited May 22, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Lemon_44]

I didn't like the LaRoche signing back then and even less so now. They replaced one Adam that can't hit with another Adam that can't hit. Yet, they always seem to occupy a spot in the middle of the order.

[LittleHurt05]

I didn't like the LaRoche signing back then and even less so now. They replaced one Adam that can't hit with another Adam that can't hit. Yet, they always seem to occupy a spot in the middle of the order.

 

When you have this problem: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=95533, you have no choice but to take chances on Adams like that. Sure the Sox could do better in free agency, but it's not always that simple.

[LittleHurt05]

I will say that I liked every signing at first blush except the LaRoche signing. Then I talked myself into it. Well, so far, he's looking like a bust and a lot of it is the Sox refusal to bench him against most LHP and play him moreso than Jose at 1B. He should be playing 1B 100 games and Jose 62, instead it's going to be like Jose 120 and LaRoche 42.

 

Six games vs. LHP, 5 starts for LaRoche. That's just completely inexcusable, it's like we are back in the 1980s are something and the only statistics available are hits, HRs, and BA. That's not even sabermetrics, it's simple batting splits.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Six games vs. LHP, 5 starts for LaRoche. That's just completely inexcusable, it's like we are back in the 1980s are something and the only statistics available are hits, HRs, and BA. That's not even sabermetrics, it's simple batting splits.

 

 

Who are they going to play instead though? I mean honestly, it's easy to rail on this issue and I understand it but what's the point? Would you rather put Bonifacio or Sanchez in the lineup because those are the option? They aren't going to play Flowers/Soto at the same time (Thank Goodness) and Beckham will be at 3B vs most LHP. There is nobody else to play. Now, if the Sox acquire someone like Aramis Ramirez for cheap, they can then play Gordon at 3B (yuck) and DH Ramirez vs LHP. They just don't have enough good players yet.

[LittleHurt05]

Who are they going to play instead though? I mean honestly, it's easy to rail on this issue and I understand it but what's the point? Would you rather put Bonifacio or Sanchez in the lineup because those are the option? They aren't going to play Flowers/Soto at the same time (Thank Goodness) and Beckham will be at 3B vs most LHP. There is nobody else to play. Now, if the Sox acquire someone like Aramis Ramirez for cheap, they can then play Gordon at 3B (yuck) and DH Ramirez vs LHP. They just don't have enough good players yet.

 

Yes

[Y2Jimmy0]

Yes

 

 

Okay fair enough. I'd rather take the chance that LaRoche homers vs a LHP. You just aren't going to win consistently with Sanchez, Bonifacio, and Beckham starting vs LHP.

[oldsox]

Who are they going to play instead though? I mean honestly, it's easy to rail on this issue and I understand it but what's the point? Would you rather put Bonifacio or Sanchez in the lineup because those are the option? They aren't going to play Flowers/Soto at the same time (Thank Goodness) and Beckham will be at 3B vs most LHP. There is nobody else to play. Now, if the Sox acquire someone like Aramis Ramirez for cheap, they can then play Gordon at 3B (yuck) and DH Ramirez vs LHP. They just don't have enough good players yet.

There is no valid solution, but they should get a RH hitter somewhere, and go with 11 pitchers. Do they really need 12 pitchers? I say bring up Dan Black if no one else is available. If he goes one for fifteen ala Wilkins, send him back. Status quo sucks.

[Dick Allen]

Why are people complaining about LaRoche vs. LH pitching when the 3 games in a row lost and lack of offense was against RH pitching?

[Y2Jimmy0]

Why are people complaining about LaRoche vs. LH pitching when the 3 games in a row lost and lack of offense was against RH pitching?

 

 

Because people need someone to blame. Haven't gotten the power that they need out opt Abreu and LaRoche. Melky and Eaton have been pretty bad and they have offensive black holes at 2B, SS, 3B, and C. This offense just isn't good enough currently. They are lucky to be 20-22.

[LittleHurt05]

Why are people complaining about LaRoche vs. LH pitching when the 3 games in a row lost and lack of offense was against RH pitching?

 

Because he shouldn't be starting against LH pitching. Nobody ever blamed that for this 3 game losing streak though.

[Dick Allen]

Because he shouldn't be starting against LH pitching. Nobody ever blamed that for this 3 game losing streak though.

The offense was putrid against RHP, so I don't understand how this morphed into LaRoche can't hit lefties. There was some bad luck, as several balls were hit pretty hard, but its hard to win if you score 1 or 2 runs.

[LittleHurt05]

The offense was putrid against RHP, so I don't understand how this morphed into LaRoche can't hit lefties. There was some bad luck, as several balls were hit pretty hard, but its hard to win if you score 1 or 2 runs.

 

It was a general comment/discussion about the LaRoche signing. Nobody ever said it had anything to do with the past 3 games against RHP.

[Dick Allen]

It was a general comment/discussion about the LaRoche signing. Nobody ever said it had anything to do with the past 3 games against RHP.

Adam LaRoche is not a significant offensive "problem". I realize some have honed in on him, so now he will become a punching bag, and those who wanted to jack Rick Hahn off for his offseason are now saying they knew all along some of these signings were just bad, but a thread on the Sox putrid offense focusing on Adam LaRoche, is pretty lame.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[GreenSox]

Laroche was a good signing - only 2 years, he can play defense, and didn't give up a draft choice.

Melky on the other hand...

Could have used that Shark package (or some of it) and brought and outfielder or 2 in here.

[Whisox05]

Adam LaRoche is not a significant offensive "problem". I realize some have honed in on him, so now he will become a punching bag, and those who wanted to jack Rick Hahn off for his offseason are now saying they knew all along some of these signings were just bad, but a thread on the Sox putrid offense focusing on Adam LaRoche, is pretty lame.

 

 

 

Ya I'm not sure why alot of people on picking on Laroche. He's not the problem but he's part of it. The team is just crap offensively. Still second to last in runs, 27 in hits, middle of the pack in average and last in xbh. Tho surprising they are in the top 5 for striking out the least. Abreu is now up to 100 base runners on base when coming to the plate and has still only driven in 16 of them. There must be some sort of curse with the white sox and offense. They seem to try to bring in guys that hit better other places but come in here and just flame out. Still can't seem to produce position players from the system that can produce consistent offensively. I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in mike trout and stopped producing offensively with the sox.

Edited May 22, 2015 by WhiteSoxLifer

[bmags]

Ya I'm not sure why alot of people on picking on Laroche. He's not the problem but he's part of it. The team is just crap offensively. Still second to last in runs, 27 in hits, middle of the pack in average and last in xbh. Tho surprising they are in the top 5 for striking out the least. Abreu is now up to 100 base runners on base when coming to the plate and has still only driven in 16 of them. There must be some sort of curse with the white sox and offense. They seem to try to bring in guys that hit better other places but come in here and just flame out. Still can't seem to produce position players from the system that can produce consistent offensively. I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in mike trout and stopped producing offensively with the sox.

 

There is excellent stuff in this post, thanks for pulling that together.

 

"Abreu is now up to 100 base runners on base when coming to the plate and has still only driven in 16 of them."

 

This has certainly felt like the case, glad to see it wasn't just a hunch.

 

"middle of the pack in average and last in xbh"

 

This has killed me. It's hard to have multiple hits in an inning. It's harder to score multiple runs in an inning when your multiple hits are all singles.

 

IMO their lack of power doesn't just show in the lack of "bases clearing doubles". It's when we start off an inning with 2 singles and 1st and 3rd, just how many end up with not a single batter who can lift the ball in for at least a sac fly.

 

3 things will happen:

1) K (most likely)

2) GIDP (2nd most likely)

3) Fielders choice, runner inexplicably does not score

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Something good

5) wild pitch

6) walk

[Harry Chappas]

Eaton, Melky and Ramirez are the issues.

 

The team has a real bad baseball IQ especially at the plate. They do not walk, take pitches or foul off good pitches. Pitchers simply throw high heat and breaking balls away and they swing and hit the ball weakly or miss it all together.

 

Now they are not hitting for any power as we team.

 

Now they no longer can steal a base.

 

So they are dumb, weak, and slow.

 

How Abreu continues to play first base as much as he does tells you that there really is not a lot of thought going into running this thing.

[elrockinMT]

I supported every Sox transaction and still do. But, sometime when you try and develop a winning formula the math doesn't add up. There is plenty of blame to go around here at this point, but we can still bust out. We did show signs of it. I guess the old baseball axiom is true: good pitching can shut down good hitting every time

[bmags]

I supported every Sox transaction and still do. But, sometime when you try and develop a winning formula the math doesn't add up. There is plenty of blame to go around here at this point, but we can still bust out. We did show signs of it. I guess the old baseball axiom is true: good pitching can shut down good hitting every time

 

I think the scary thing is it is hard to imagine where the power will come from. It is hard to grasp just how much lack of power can limit your run scoring potential until you only have like 12 total on this team.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Abreu is now up to 100 base runners on base when coming to the plate and has still only driven in 16 of them.

 

This is not nearly as bad as you are making it seem. Last year he drove in 19.5% of the runners on base, this year he is at 16.7%. If he drove them in at the same pace as last year he would only have three more RBIs.

 

For reference, during Frank Thomas's 1994 season (one of the greatest offensive seasons in the games' history) he drove in 17.8% of the runners on base and Miguel Cabrera is at just 15.8% this year. Abreu not driving in runs is not an issue for this team.

Edited May 22, 2015 by lasttriptotulsa

[LittleHurt05]

Adam LaRoche is not a significant offensive "problem". I realize some have honed in on him, so now he will become a punching bag, and those who wanted to jack Rick Hahn off for his offseason are now saying they knew all along some of these signings were just bad, but a thread on the Sox putrid offense focusing on Adam LaRoche, is pretty lame.

 

I was never criticizing Adam LaRoche. I was blaming Robin and/or Rick for starting the guy against LHP and/or not having better RH options available when you know how much he struggles against LHP. Somehow you spun that into blaming the entire putrid offense on Adam LaRoche but whatever.

[Balta1701]

This is not nearly as bad as you are making it seem. Last year he drove in 19.5% of the runners on base, this year he is at 16.7%. If he drove them in at the same pace as last year he would only have three more RBIs.

 

For reference, during Frank Thomas's 1994 season (one of the greatest offensive seasons in the games' history) he drove in 17.8% of the runners on base and Miguel Cabrera is at just 15.8% this year. Abreu not driving in runs is not an issue for this team.

Jose Abreu's OPS is down 120 points from his total season last year. Jose Abreu changing from an all-star to a "slightly above average" offensive 1b is a major issue for this team offense.