Irreconcilable Differences

[Balta1701]

I think the most shocking thing here is how many people are opening advocating for the team to move. After living through the true turn back the clock era, when the team was all but gone, it just blows my mind.

I haven't figured out any other way to interpret your arguments about how this fan base is terrible/unsalvageable.

[Thad Bosley]

I think the most shocking thing here is how many people are opening advocating for the team to move. After living through the true turn back the clock era, when the team was all but gone, it just blows my mind.

Oh, come now. You're not still holding a...grudge...about Jerry Reinsdorf threatening to move the Sox to Tampa back in the day, are you!

[southsider2k5]

Oh, come now. You're not still holding a...grudge...about Jerry Reinsdorf threatening to move the Sox to Tampa back in the day, are you!

 

No, but I am shocked at how many people think this is a good idea.

[southsider2k5]

I haven't figured out any other way to interpret your arguments about how this fan base is terrible/unsalvageable.

 

You are one of the last people I ever expected to hold a position of wanting the White Sox to move.

[Balta1701]

You are one of the last people I ever expected to hold a position of wanting the White Sox to move.

Your argument here is that the White Sox are a bandwagon fan base that is among the worst in baseball, right? They won't come for even a regularly competitive team, they only show up for a world series level team and even just winning isn't good enough, the team is going to remain completely moribund?

 

What hope does this franchise have based on every single one of your comments in this thread?

[southsider2k5]

Your argument here is that the White Sox are a bandwagon fan base that is among the worst in baseball, right? They won't come for even a regularly competitive team, they only show up for a world series level team and even just winning isn't good enough, the team is going to remain completely moribund?

 

What hope does this franchise have based on every single one of your comments in this thread?

 

Your posts remind of those who tell poor people to get better jobs. Still, moving the team? Never thought I would see you say that.

[Balta1701]

Your posts remind of those who tell poor people to get better jobs. Still, moving the team? Never thought I would see you say that.

Here's the case you've made in this thread for the white sox having a terrible, unreliable, bandwagon fanbase and its very tough to compete for and win a world series.

Yeah reading the posts in this thread, I don't know where anyone would get the words "fickle" and "bandwagon" from when talking about the White Sox fan base. I hope you all enjoy your next team.

 

 

 

The way forward is quitting, at least according this thread.

 

We'll see you all when the bandwagon fills up again.

 

 

Because I am sick of the group that tells everyone they have to be miserable because they didn't get their trophy. It is one thing to talk about the game, or even the bad that goes with it. It is quite another to act like the game owes you something it doesn't.

 

 

I am not surprised at all by our attendance. This is the type of fan base we have.

 

 

I have provided the obvious answers that you feel hurt feelings to acknowledge. I have 115 years of attendance and White Sox history to back me up, but you know, what is that really worth. Fans abandon the White Sox during all but the very best times. I don't see why that is such a painful thing for people to admit. All of the reasons you keep giving at why fans don't go to games do nothing but back that fact up. That is the very definition of a bandwagon fan base. If that isn't a bandwagon fanbase, I would love to hear what your definition of that actually is, and why the Sox fan base doesn't fit that criteria, because nothing you have said in all of your posts has said anything that doesn't reinforce every single thing I have been saying all along.

 

 

It tells me the bandwagon empties very quickly, just like we saw after 2005.

 

 

Right. Because winning is something you just snap your fingers and do. It isn't like the White Sox went out and spent $100 million+ dollars this off season to try to compete this year or anything. Can we at least pretend to exist in the land of reality?

 

The only logical conclusion I can draw from this is that the White Sox fan base is unable to support a competitive team. They won't come even for a competitive team. It takes a world series, and that happens once every half century.

 

Right now they're protected by a strong stadium deal paid for by the state, but in 10 years they will lose that deal.

 

Aren't you making a strong case that the Chicago area cannot support this team? They won't go if there's no world series capable team and that leaves them without enough money to even assemble a tolerable roster.

 

What is the other solution?

[caulfield12]

This argument has gotten so polarized that it's either "the White Sox must make it to the World Series every season" or at least 2/3 or 3/5 years...OR, JR needs to sell the team because of the 2008, 2010 and 2012 attendance.

 

Losing sight of the fact that attendance is only 20-25% of revenues for most teams over the last decade.

 

Of course, those who keep criticizing the Sox fanbase don't have a response, EITHER. Other than complaining about the lack of support, excuses, bandwagon fans, fair weather fans, etc.

 

 

Leading to the logical conclusion, if, in their definition, even a "winning" team doesn't draw fans, then WHAT THE HECK ARE THEY GOING TO DO?

 

Improve the product? Spend even more money? Make Sox fans feel guiltier (insulting the fans like KW has done in the past, or Ruben Amaro in the last 24-48 hours)? Better marketing?

 

If the likes of Brooks Boyer are doing a great job and have tried everything possible, then what else can be done?

 

 

 

 

[Andy the Clown]

Your argument here is that the White Sox are a bandwagon fan base that is among the worst in baseball, right? They won't come for even a regularly competitive team, they only show up for a world series level team and even just winning isn't good enough, the team is going to remain completely moribund?

 

What hope does this franchise have based on every single one of your comments in this thread?

 

Indeed.

 

To turn up the heat a bit, maybe nobody in Chicago gives a damn about the Sox except for low SES Southsiders, who have less discretionary income than most and who stay far the hell away from the park when they've got a dog on their hands (which is most of the time)?

[greg775]

Indeed.

 

To turn up the heat a bit, maybe nobody in Chicago gives a damn about the Sox except for low SES Southsiders, who have less discretionary income than most and who stay far the hell away from the park when they've got a dog on their hands (which is most of the time)?

That's probably true. I would assume the true blue Southside fans know a lousy team when they see one and merely watch the games or part of them on TV. I bet a lot of companies buy tickets and a lot of fans go for free when they claim those tickets. I bet all of the skyboxes are sold, too. So the Sox aren't hurting. And you're still going to get a lot of fans to go to 1-2 games a year even when the team blows. Now when the team is great, it's a different story. Royals are averaging over 30,000 this year and until this year wouldn't draw 20,000 for a weeknight game all season. 18,000 or so was a good crowd til they reached the WS.

[LDF]

 

this is my rant and in all fairness meant for no one on this site. this is based on my personal opinions.

 

the fans for the most part, and like i have always said, are not like the northside. the sox fans are, for the most part blue collar workers and as Veeck said work hard for a living.

 

the fans of the sox do not want to waste their hard earned money on a crappy team, does this make them less of a fan?

 

the sox fans are intelligent and do on occasion come out to see the games, maybe not as often as some would hope or for that fact, the owners want. but again whose fault is that???

 

the blame is solely placed on the owners shoulder for this state of the sox and the lack of interest in the team. just b/c they spent money, doesn't mean they spent money wisely, there is still a huge reak of mismanagement in the front office. spend the money you are spending for baseball smartly, good coaches, for starters. i can say more on this, but i have said it before, even yesterday.

 

the fans will come out and support this team or the sox in general, do not have the expectation that the attendance will rival the northside, that road was never taken when the owners had a chance to do it right. the sox can easily draw 2.25+ mil. again, the time to take over chi as the main baseball team was wasted. will it ever present itself again, prob not.

 

it is not the fans faults, we will not endorse a crappy team???

 

this team does has the ability to do much better.

[southsider2k5]

Here's the case you've made in this thread for the white sox having a terrible, unreliable, bandwagon fanbase and its very tough to compete for and win a world series.

 

WHY DON"T YOU POOR PEOPLE JUST GO GET A JOB THAT PAYS BETTER!

[Thad Bosley]

WHY DON"T YOU POOR PEOPLE JUST GO GET A JOB THAT PAYS BETTER!

Um, yes, Miss? Can I get an order of some grilled hyperbole with a side of sautéed bluster? Thanks! Oh, and a large diet. Thanks!!

[LDF]

WHY DON"T YOU POOR PEOPLE JUST GO GET A JOB THAT PAYS BETTER!

 

while i was truly staying out of this, this comment is sooo condescending that it sound like a person whose way of thinking is imperialistic.

 

i know what i said is NOT true of your character, its what you wrote.

 

oops i made a mistake on the bold.

Edited May 27, 2015 by LDF

[oldsox]

LDF, I think the comment was said/written with tongue in cheek.

[LDF]

LDF, I think the comment was said/written with tongue in cheek.

 

thanks for the heads up. i think it was mention something about green.

 

on a side note, i know what he said was just not him. i am glad i was extremely wrong.

[southsider2k5]

Um, yes, Miss? Can I get an order of some grilled hyperbole with a side of sautéed bluster? Thanks! Oh, and a large diet. Thanks!!

 

If the idea that the Sox either have to have an ideal fan base, or move isn't hyperbole, I don't know what is. It is taking the debate to a ridiculous extreme that completely ignores reality, but then again, that is what most of this debate has been about.

 

BTW, I don't think I ever saw you actually define what a bandwagon fanbase is.

[BlackSox13]

This thread has been an interesting read to say the least. Lots of emotions and its understandable.

 

Going into last winter everyone knew of the many holes the Sox had and the front office did the best they could to fill as many of those holes as possible.

 

For many reasons things have not worked out in the first two months and I blame the organization as a whole and not just certain individuals. From JR to the fricken towel boy are to be held accountable. All have failed to do their part and have contributed to this mess of a so called baseball team.

 

The emotional part of me wants to tear this motha apart and restock the farm but that's just frustration on my part and do not really want to see a full scale rebuild. IMO, it would be a viable option with the right front office but this is not the right FO.

 

In the end, all I can do is to continue to support the Sox with blind fandom because there are no realistic options for me. I just cannot bail on a team ive been cheering for so many years and go searching for a new favorite because they are currently better than the Sox. For me, all I can do is hope the "core" players improve and the rest play well enough to have some trade value should another GM come calling.

 

To those that might be considering finding a new team, I wish you well and hope you find what you seek. To those sticking it out, let's pull up a keg and tap that b**** because its looking like we have a long four months ahead of us.

[LDF]

This thread has been an interesting read to say the least. Lots of emotions and its understandable.

 

Going into last winter everyone knew of the many holes the Sox had and the front office did the best they could to fill as many of those holes as possible.

 

For many reasons things have not worked out in the first two months and I blame the organization as a whole and not just certain individuals. From JR to the fricken towel boy are to be held accountable. All have failed to do their part and have contributed to this mess of a so called baseball team.

 

The emotional part of me wants to tear this motha apart and restock the farm but that's just frustration on my part and do not really want to see a full scale rebuild. IMO, it would be a viable option with the right front office but this is not the right FO.

 

In the end, all I can do is to continue to support the Sox with blind fandom because there are no realistic options for me. I just cannot bail on a team ive been cheering for so many years and go searching for a new favorite because they are currently better than the Sox. For me, all I can do is hope the "core" players improve and the rest play well enough to have some trade value should another GM come calling.

 

To those that might be considering finding a new team, I wish you well and hope you find what you seek. To those sticking it out, let's pull up a keg and tap that b**** because its looking like we have a long four months ahead of us.

 

when did you get any intelligence???

 

 

bravo real nice. the other thing is when things goes bad, every little nick gets magnified.

[BlackSox13]

when did you get any intelligence???

 

 

bravo real nice. the other thing is when things goes bad, every little nick gets magnified.

Lmao, good one LDF!

 

I have been staying away due to my own high emotions and to be honest, I have the same complaints and concerns as everyone else so it would be redundant for me to post my frustrations.

 

You're right, every little thing is magnified right now due to an overall bad performance and elevated expectations going into this season which just adds to the difficultly in keeping the emotions in check.

 

Trying times for Sox fans indeed.

[LDF]

Lmao, good one LDF!

 

I have been staying away due to my own high emotions and to be honest, I have the same complaints and concerns as everyone else so it would be redundant for me to post my frustrations.

 

You're right, every little thing is magnified right now due to an overall bad performance and elevated expectations going into this season which just adds to the difficultly in keeping the emotions in check.

 

Trying times for Sox fans indeed.

 

again a nice post.

 

the thing is everyone here is a sox fan, no one thinks the same and everyone has opinions. loosing brings out the worst in people and fingers start to point. i know, b/c i am one of them. but i point my fingers to the ownership.

 

i backed RV esp going into this season, but i also said, this will tell if he can manage. i will let the posters decide that.

[Balta1701]

If the idea that the Sox either have to have an ideal fan base, or move isn't hyperbole, I don't know what is. It is taking the debate to a ridiculous extreme that completely ignores reality, but then again, that is what most of this debate has been about.

 

BTW, I don't think I ever saw you actually define what a bandwagon fanbase is.

So what is your solution?

 

You've said before that the White Sox can't rebuild because the fanbase won't survive multiple losing seasons.

 

You've spent the entire thread saying that this bandwagon fan base can't be counted upon to support the team unless they're winning world series - even the division isn't enough.

 

You get angry when someone points out that the logic you present leads to "this team therefore cannot survive in this city".

 

What other options are there?

[southsider2k5]

So what is your solution?

 

You've said before that the White Sox can't rebuild because the fanbase won't survive multiple losing seasons.

 

You've spent the entire thread saying that this bandwagon fan base can't be counted upon to support the team unless they're winning world series - even the division isn't enough.

 

You get angry when someone points out that the logic you present leads to "this team therefore cannot survive in this city".

 

What other options are there?

 

lol. Ridiculous. There is obvious ground between the extremes you are giving. If you don't see it, you don't want to see it.

 

And I didn't get mad, I just said it shocked me to see you advocating (and seemingly others) for the team moving. It still shocks me. It also sort of reinforces the whole "fickle" and "bandwagon" POV.

[Balta1701]

lol. Ridiculous. There is obvious ground between the extremes you are giving. If you don't see it, you don't want to see it.

 

And I didn't get mad, I just said it shocked me to see you advocating (and seemingly others) for the team moving. It still shocks me. It also sort of reinforces the whole "fickle" and "bandwagon" POV.

Then please help me, explain it because I can't find it.

[southsider2k5]

Then please help me, explain it because I can't find it.

 

I don't believe that for a second.