Balta1701 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2015 -> 03:48 PM) It's a strange situation, as almost all of Hahn's moves have made sense on paper. For one reason or another, a lot of them haven't worked out so far. The most logical explanation is the players just have underachieved significantly to their ability. To me, the following moves were good and made sense, regardless of what the production has been: - Eaton trade - Reed trade - Abreu signing - Melky signing - Samardzija deal - Robertson deal - Boni/Beckham deal I was ok with the Reed trade but was a bit worried about strikeouts and hoped they'd done their homework. I did not like the Samardzija deal, I just shut my mouth on the Cabrera deal because roids, the Robertson deal made sense but it made sense in the context of "we've spent big on Samardzija and LaRoche with him", and I wouldn't have done the Samardzija deal so I wouldn't have spent that kind of money on a closer either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2015 -> 07:48 PM) It's a strange situation, as almost all of Hahn's moves have made sense on paper. For one reason or another, a lot of them haven't worked out so far. The most logical explanation is the players just have underachieved significantly to their ability. To me, the following moves were good and made sense, regardless of what the production has been: - Eaton trade - Reed trade - Abreu signing - Melky signing - Samardzija deal - Robertson deal - Boni/Beckham deal I disagree on Melky. That was a ridiculous acquisition. I do agree with you about guys underachieving. I'm at the point I can't stand the sight of several guys at bat, which is not good for Memorial Day. Guys who make me ill at the plate: Eaton, Melky, LaRoche, Flowers, Soto, Avi only because he swings at each and every pitch; Lexi and Gillaspie. It's not fun to watch any of those guys bat which again, is sad since it's only May. Even the great Abreu who I love swings at every single pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 By no means am I a big Samardzija fan, but I liked the trade cause I didn't think anyone in package they gave up would be a difference maker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ May 24, 2015 -> 07:50 PM) I iust hope they sell early to get a jump on the rest of those that are out of it. Me too. There have to be some guys who can field and yet hit .280 with power (for the Cell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 How many of you actually foresaw all the moves we made performing well below career norms? I'm not buying this sudden revisionist history from a lot of you. Trading them doesn't make sense either, because we'd be selling low on basically everyone. Even Robertson probably wouldn't get much in return, he's a reliever and we're paying him a ton of money. It sucks because if everyone just had the season they had last year things would be looking very good. Of course we should have expected sone regression but not to this degree and not from everyone. Pretty much have to stick with it and see if some of the guys can turn it around enough to be valuable by the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2015 -> 08:56 PM) I disagree on Melky. That was a ridiculous acquisition. I do agree with you about guys underachieving. I'm at the point I can't stand the sight of several guys at bat, which is not good for Memorial Day. Guys who make me ill at the plate: Eaton, Melky, LaRoche, Flowers, Soto, Avi only because he swings at each and every pitch; Lexi and Gillaspie. It's not fun to watch any of those guys bat which again, is sad since it's only May. Even the great Abreu who I love swings at every single pitch. Avi has been far and away the most exciting hitter for the Sox this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ May 24, 2015 -> 07:57 PM) How many of you actually foresaw all the moves we made performing well below career norms? I'm not buying this sudden revisionist history from a lot of you. Trading them doesn't make sense either, because we'd be selling low on basically everyone. Even Robertson probably wouldn't get much in return, he's a reliever and we're paying him a ton of money. It sucks because if everyone just had the season they had last year things would be looking very good. Of course we should have expected sone regression but not to this degree and not from everyone. Pretty much have to stick with it and see if some of the guys can turn it around enough to be valuable by the deadline. I disagree, because at the deadline teams will be clamoring to get Shark if we leak it to the press he's available. There will be a race to get Shark and Robertson, even Lexi. These are key pieces (on paper) to a contender. Melky is a valuable bat; ditto LaRoche (on paper and to fan bases; we know better). I think it is a perfec scenario. That's why I said TRADE everybody except Abreu/Sale. Edited May 24, 2015 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2015 -> 07:58 PM) Avi has been far and away the most exciting hitter for the Sox this year. I like Avi, but it still pains me to watch him swing at every pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ May 24, 2015 -> 03:57 PM) How many of you actually foresaw all the moves we made performing well below career norms? I'm not buying this sudden revisionist history from a lot of you. Trading them doesn't make sense either, because we'd be selling low on basically everyone. Even Robertson probably wouldn't get much in return, he's a reliever and we're paying him a ton of money. It sucks because if everyone just had the season they had last year things would be looking very good. Of course we should have expected sone regression but not to this degree and not from everyone. Pretty much have to stick with it and see if some of the guys can turn it around enough to be valuable by the deadline. How many of us are paid scouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2015 -> 08:59 PM) I disagree, because at the deadline teams will be clamoring to get Shark if we leak it to the press he's available. There will be a race to get Shark and Robertson, even Lexi. These are key pieces (on paper) to a contender. Melky is a valuable bat; ditto LaRoche (on paper and to fan bases; we know better). I think it is a perfec scenario. That's why I said TRADE everybody except Abreu/Sale. Why not trade Sale then? Especially it he's a two-pitch pitcher now, why not deal him before his elbow explodes? It won't happen, as this team will try to compete next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Jerry needs to sell this team. He runs the team witn 60's mentality. Hes mooched off chicago for 35 years. Time for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2015 -> 02:59 PM) I disagree, because at the deadline teams will be clamoring to get Shark if we leak it to the press he's available. There will be a race to get Shark and Robertson, even Lexi. These are key pieces (on paper) to a contender. Melky is a valuable bat; ditto LaRoche (on paper and to fan bases; we know better). I think it is a perfec scenario. That's why I said TRADE everybody except Abreu/Sale. Deadline deals don't get much in return anymore. The Shark deal last year was far different because he had a year and a half remaining on his contract, we're not going to get much in return, especially if Cueto and Hamels are also on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 WEEEEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2015 -> 08:02 PM) Why not trade Sale then? Especially it he's a two-pitch pitcher now, why not deal him before his elbow explodes? It won't happen, as this team will try to compete next year. You could be right. The Twins were hitting him so hard it's like it was on a tee. I do love Sale and Abreu, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2015 -> 03:57 PM) By no means am I a big Samardzija fan, but I liked the trade cause I didn't think anyone in package they gave up would be a difference maker I disagreed with the concept. We were trading away the building depth in our minor leagues and doing so for a "1 year, all-in" kinda move. We had so many different needs that "hold onto your developing minor league depth until you have too much" seemed like a much better plan to me than hanging everything on "this team is ready to compete right now." Then again, I also had zero confidence in the team's management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2015 -> 02:48 PM) It's a strange situation, as almost all of Hahn's moves have made sense on paper. For one reason or another, a lot of them haven't worked out so far. The most logical explanation is the players just have underachieved significantly to their ability. To me, the following moves were good and made sense, regardless of what the production has been: - Eaton trade - Reed trade - Abreu signing - Melky signing - Samardzija deal - Robertson deal - Boni/Beckham deal The organizational philosophy and preparedness seems to the thing that I keep coming back to. Those moves appeared to make sense in a singular situation but in totality major fundamental flaws most notably defense and obp were not improved with these moves. The one player who could improve th defense is now just a DH. Garcia is good but no obp or defense. Alexi ramirez is the epitome of white sox baseball. Worthwhile at one moment....god awful the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2015 -> 04:02 PM) Why not trade Sale then? Especially it he's a two-pitch pitcher now, why not deal him before his elbow explodes? It won't happen, as this team will try to compete next year. This season has convinced me that we should. They blew this year and in the process blew next year IMO, leaving them a much longer rebuilding project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 8-1 against a team that swept us in Minnie. We've lost six of seven to Minnie, lol. I swear, don't let Paulie get on a plane. Interim manager with Big Hurt the hitting coach. Hire LaRussa this offseason to manage. Beg Tony to save the franchise. If not him, Leyland. Beg them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 They'll go 8-3 on the road trip because it makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 This team (org.) needs an enema, but what would be left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 The ERA for the big 3 starters is stunning. Making it look like they are pitching in steroid era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2015 -> 04:07 PM) 8-1 against a team that swept us in Minnie. We've lost six of seven to Minnie, lol. I swear, don't let Paulie get on a plane. Interim manager with Big Hurt the hitting coach. Hire LaRussa this offseason to manage. Beg Tony to save the franchise. If not him, Leyland. Beg them. Begging a guy to come in for 1-2 years to "save the franchise" sounds silly to me. We need someone who can take time and give the team a chance to grow up and recover from this trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2015 -> 03:07 PM) 8-1 against a team that swept us in Minnie. We've lost six of seven to Minnie, lol. I swear, don't let Paulie get on a plane. Interim manager with Big Hurt the hitting coach. Hire LaRussa this offseason to manage. Beg Tony to save the franchise. If not him, Leyland. Beg them. Come on now. Be passionate, but don't be stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2015 -> 09:06 PM) This season has convinced me that we should. They blew this year and in the process blew next year IMO, leaving them a much longer rebuilding project. If Dodgers want to give the sox Seager and Urias, then sign me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2015 -> 08:08 PM) Begging a guy to come in for 1-2 years to "save the franchise" sounds silly to me. We need someone who can take time and give the team a chance to grow up and recover from this trash. I don't know. I want a proven difference maker. QUOTE (flavum @ May 24, 2015 -> 08:08 PM) Come on now. Be passionate, but don't be stupid. Why stupid? LaRussa has to hate retirement; ditto Leyland. These guys can get the dysfunction out of the Sox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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