Midseason Additions

[Balta1701]

why not Penny??

 

i mean why else would the sox have signed him. another names is Drabek, Carroll, Noesi

I know it's only Charlotte but Drabek's numbers overall seem pretty impressive since he's been sent down. 2.36 ERA, WHIP barely above 1.0, K-rate better than it was when he was a top prospect with the blue jays.

[Eminor3rd]

I know it's only Charlotte but Drabek's numbers overall seem pretty impressive since he's been sent down. 2.36 ERA, WHIP barely above 1.0, K-rate better than it was when he was a top prospect with the blue jays.

 

Is he starting? I don't think there's ever been a successful starter after two TJs for more than a season.

[Balta1701]

Is he starting? I don't think there's ever been a successful starter after two TJs for more than a season.

Yes.

[SCCWS]

If we lose Shark & trade Quintana, who the f*** do people think will be in this rotation exactly? We have some #5 types in Danks, Beck, & Erik Johnson, but counting on more than one of those guys next year and you're not serious about competing.

 

Build around Sale, Rodon, & Quintana and find a way to keep Shark if the contract is right. As long as the rotation is strong, we'll never be that far away from competing.

 

I think that would be a very solid rotation. In fact it is the present rotation. But if we end up in September w a .500 team despite that rotation, then what??? Positions like SS and catcher are damn hard to fill via FA. The everyday roster does not have anyone to trade that would fill more than 1 hole while creating another. Do we hope Johnson Kottaras and Davidson solve the offensive/defensive issues?? I love Q and would hate to see him go. But he may be the only tradeable piece Hahn has. If he has a substandard year then that probably eliminates trading him anyway. Maybe Avi can get a return but again that just opens another hole.

[VAfan]

Sox are 23-27. They've played 50 games. Since 1995, less than 10% of the teams that won their division had won 25 games or less after 54 games of baseball played.

 

As for wildcard spots after 54 games played, less than 25% of the teams that made the wildcard had 25 wins or less.

 

The odds and history are not on this team's side. And, as I said, Sox do not appear to be the "exception to the norm" with respect to these statistics.

 

So tell me, why are my comments stupid?

 

 

Because the rest of the AL is largely .500, which was NOT the case in most of the years since 1995 at this stage of the season. As I mentioned in my own post a few days ago, when were 3 games under, one 8-2 run, assuming everyone else stayed the same, would put us 3 games over .500 and in the playoffs.

 

So, the Sox may in fact finish poorly or out of the playoffs. But it's FAR TOO SOON to make that assumption.

 

The reason the team is under pre-season expectations is because almost the entire offense is underperforming career norms. If several or most of those players rebound to career norms, the Sox will become contenders.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Nothing wrong. Actually it is a great position to be in. But what happens if we finish last again because of numerous holes on the offensive side. They probably have 1 trade chip in Shark but he is a rental and may bring 1 propect back. You referred to Q's WAR but it was not 5 last year. It was 5 in 13, 3.5 in 14 and is near even this year. I am not a huge WAR fan which is why I think Q still has major value. Now we know he has had some bad breaks but if he doesn't turn this season around, he would not bring a ton. Our offense/defense is bad. Those guys are not going to bring anything back via trades. So if the FA money is limited, then Q may be the only tradeable player that can fill more than 1 offensive shortcoming.

 

 

You have it backwards. Quintana put a fWAR of 5.3 last season. He's a stud. He has already accumulated 1.2 WAR this season. He's a guy that you don't trade unless you get an absolute haul considering the contract he has.

[SCCWS]

You have it backwards. Quintana put a fWAR of 5.3 last season. He's a stud. He has already accumulated 1.2 WAR this season. He's a guy that you don't trade unless you get an absolute haul considering the contract he has.

 

I don't have it backwards. I used WAR which is what Baseball Reference uses. You deferred to fWAR. Q is a good pitcher but he is not a stud. Chris Sale is a stud. His WAR for 2013 and 14 is 6.9 and 6.6. I don't know what his fWAR is

[chitownsportsfan]

I don't have it backwards. I used WAR which is what Baseball Reference uses. You deferred to fWAR. Q is a good pitcher but he is not a stud. Chris Sale is a stud. His WAR for 2013 and 14 is 6.9 and 6.6. I don't know what his fWAR is

 

Q has like the 15th most fWAR in baseball the past 3 years for SP. If that's not a stud I'm not sure what is. On most teams he'd be their ace.

 

You know who isn't a stud, isn't an ace? Shark.

 

FWIW, there is a philosophical and counting division between bWAR (b-ref) and fWAR (fangraphs) on pitchers. bWAR leans more towards "what happened" and fWAR leans more towards "what do we think happened that was in the pitcher's control".

 

There's a lot of reading on it if you want to explore.

Edited June 4, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Y2Jimmy0]

I don't have it backwards. I used WAR which is what Baseball Reference uses. You deferred to fWAR. Q is a good pitcher but he is not a stud. Chris Sale is a stud. His WAR for 2013 and 14 is 6.9 and 6.6. I don't know what his fWAR is

 

 

It's Fangraphs WAR which is what most use. This argument is stupid though. Q is awesome and would take a haul to acquire though.

[Chicago White Sox]

It's Fangraphs WAR which is what most use. This argument is stupid though. Q is awesome and would take a haul to acquire though.

And losing him would create a massive hole that would be nearly impossible to fill.

 

I just don't see the desire to move Quintana, I feel like the addition of Rodon has people fooled that our rotation is mucher deeper than it actually is. Trade Quintana & lose Shark and our rotation becomes a huge liability.

[LDF]

And losing him would create a massive hole that would be nearly impossible to fill.

 

I just don't see the desire to move Quintana, I feel like the addition of Rodon has people fooled that our rotation is mucher deeper than it actually is. Trade Quintana & lose Shark and our rotation becomes a huge liability.

 

excellent and i am glad someone else wrote this.

 

perfect post.

[Bob Sacamano]

excellent and i am glad someone else wrote this.

 

perfect post.

 

Agree

[Boopa1219]

Let me make this point, I am not saying that the Sox should just dump Quintana. Im saying that if a deal is there, and the Sox feel like theyre getting a return thats acceptable based on how they value Q, thatbthwy shouldn't be afraid to trade him.

[LDF]

Let me make this point, I am not saying that the Sox should just dump Quintana. Im saying that if a deal is there, and the Sox feel like theyre getting a return thats acceptable based on how they value Q, thatbthwy shouldn't be afraid to trade him.

 

and for this discussion and i don't want this post to sound confrontational.

 

so with that idea of filling 2 positional holes with this trade, then how to fill the recent holes, Q, Shark, Danks, Noesi, in the pitching staff. also remember Danks and his unmovable contract. how would you address that new hole??

[Eminor3rd]

Let me make this point, I am not saying that the Sox should just dump Quintana. Im saying that if a deal is there, and the Sox feel like theyre getting a return thats acceptable based on how they value Q, thatbthwy shouldn't be afraid to trade him.

 

You could say that about literally every player. The problem is that there's really nothing more valuable than a star level player who is ALSO signed to a long-term, below-market-rate contract. And a one-for-one deal with another one of those players does nothing for us because we do NOT have the pitching depth to replace him. It would be robbing Peter to pay Paul or whatever. So unless some team wants to give us TWO players like that, or at least one and some significant prospects, it doesn't make sense to shuffle the roster and break even. And that's just not going to happen anyway. No one is going to blatantly overpay. Or at least, if they do, we'll never be able to see it coming because it won't make any sense, and therefore it's silly to talk about it like it's a legitimate plan.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Eminor3rd

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I could see a team like St. Louis or Houston overpaying for Quintana near the trade deadline to try to bolster their rotation before the playoffs start.

 

That being said, I wouldn't trade him unless the Sox got a great prospect or two.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I could see a team like St. Louis or Houston overpaying for Quintana near the trade deadline to try to bolster their rotation before the playoffs start.

 

That being said, I wouldn't trade him unless the Sox got a great prospect or two.

 

 

That's just it though. They should get more than a great prospect or two. He should be more valuable than Cole Hamels because of his contract alone.

[LDF]

I could see a team like St. Louis or Houston overpaying for Quintana near the trade deadline to try to bolster their rotation before the playoffs start.

 

That being said, I wouldn't trade him unless the Sox got a great prospect or two.

 

Hou may really over pay. i can envision that they would want to make this trade. here is the reason, when was the last time they made the playoff and coming out of the west and they really want to make a mark in the playoff.

 

i want to say this so many can remember.... the 2 holes are a catcher and 3b. so how much of a hole in the pitching dept will then be, if Q is traded.

[southsider2k5]

I could see a team like St. Louis or Houston overpaying for Quintana near the trade deadline to try to bolster their rotation before the playoffs start.

 

That being said, I wouldn't trade him unless the Sox got a great prospect or two.

 

Taking Houston, a deal with them starts with Carlos Correa. Anyone think that happens? A Cardinals deal starts with Carlos Martinez. Again, anyone think that is getting off of the ground?

 

Otherwise, the Sox aren't getting real value for Quintana.

[caulfield12]

Appel, Domingo Santana, Tucker, Moran....that would get it started.

 

The problem is you've just blown another expensive hole in your rotation, and you can't count on another instant impact college pitcher at #8.

 

There's no way Correa is going anywhere.

 

 

The Cardinals are way ahead in their division and Garcia's recently returned.....they've got a prospect in lhp Marco Gonzales they're really high on, too.

 

With Wacha, Lynn, Lackey, Martinez and Garcia...no need for Q really.

They would offer Grichuk or Piscotty but they're not going to trade Martinez and outfielder for Quintana because it doesn't make either team clearly better.

 

On the other hand, Hamels and money coming back for prospects makes more sense....as long as they hold onto Wacha and Martinez. Finally, the Heyward deal hasn't worked so that is going to causethem to be even more hesitant.

Edited June 5, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

You need good players to win. If the object is to have the #1 farm system, trade Sale and Abreu right now, and bam, the farm system will be ranked high. Whether you get the production in the future is a huge question.

 

Trading Q seems a bit shortsighted. For what he gives you vs. what he gets paid, the prospects you get back would have to be very successful to match.

 

The Sox know they have Sale, Q, and Rodon in their rotation for many years. That's a start any team would take. To mess that up and be looking for another starter to me makes little sense, unless you are getting an obvious overpay.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Taking Houston, a deal with them starts with Carlos Correa. Anyone think that happens? A Cardinals deal starts with Carlos Martinez. Again, anyone think that is getting off of the ground?

 

Otherwise, the Sox aren't getting real value for Quintana.

 

 

Feliz, McCullers, Stassi, and Moran probably gets it done but Houston would never give that up.

[caulfield12]

Feliz, McCullers, Stassi, and Moran probably gets it done but Houston would never give that up.

 

Yeah, they have to get a catcher.

 

Tucker and Santana would be overkill.

 

Moran, Stassi and a minor league pitcher wouldn't be enough...unless you could also get Tucker or Santana.

 

Tucker could play of, dh or 1b next season.

 

 

But Quintana hasn't been so dominant this year to necessitate giving up so much when they can also get Hamels or Cueto for a lot less talent. Or Samardzija.

Edited June 5, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dunt]

The only way I am trading Quintana is for a guy like Nolan Arenado. Way too valuable to this organization to dump for prospect unknowns.

[LDF]

You need good players to win. If the object is to have the #1 farm system, trade Sale and Abreu right now, and bam, the farm system will be ranked high. Whether you get the production in the future is a huge question.

 

Trading Q seems a bit shortsighted. For what he gives you vs. what he gets paid, the prospects you get back would have to be very successful to match.

 

The Sox know they have Sale, Q, and Rodon in their rotation for many years. That's a start any team would take. To mess that up and be looking for another starter to me makes little sense, unless you are getting an obvious overpay.

 

let me add to the excellent post, in the playoff, a team needs a strong starting 3 top sp's.

 

the problem is the team needs to get to the playoff and needs a team with players to get there.