In-season managerial changes a risk, BUT

[Jerksticks]

Melky sucks, Tyler sucks, Conor sucks, Alexei sucks, Sanchez sucks. 5/9 suck. This thread sucks.

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...528-column.html

 

Why doesn't Reinsdorf find the baseball equivalent of Thibs?

 

Reading the last couple of paragraphs, you could exchange Ventura's name with Hoiberg's.

 

It's almost like Jekyll and Hyde. On the baseball side, loyalty and sentimentality reign supreme. Harrelson. Melton. Trying to keep Ozzie and KW both together for far too long. Baines. Cooper. Herm Schneider. Greg Walker Gordon Beckham. Mark Buehrle. Bossard. Nancy Faust. Farmer and DJ. Paul Konerko last year. Brooks Boyer. Hahn as apprentice in waiting.

 

You would think the results on the baseball side would match the five consecutive playoff appearances on the bb side but it's actually the opposite. The White are a loyal and insulted family populated by the likes of Pierce, Skowron and Minoso. The Bulls are a cutthroat business where employees are whisked out the door with a Top Ten all-time winning percentage. Coaches are constantly hired and fired with an eye towards getting to the next level when White Sox fans would be simply elated with one playoff appearance.

 

Has loyalty led to malaise and apathy? Are the White Sox like a 1980's Japanese style "work team" where a guaranteed lifetime employment contract eventually leads to a lack of productivity because there's little or no fear of losing your position?

 

Or Reinsdorf simply can't stand disloyalty.....Ozzie talking to the Marlins while under contract and inseason....or Thibs using Van Gundy to trash the front office publicly?

 

Shouldn't the White Sox be run less as a hobby and more like the Bulls?

[southsider2k5]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...528-column.html

 

Why doesn't Reinsdorf find the baseball equivalent of Thibs?

 

Reading the last couple of paragraphs, you could exchange Ventura's name with Hoiberg's.

 

It's almost like Jekyll and Hyde. On the baseball side, loyalty and sentimentality reign supreme. Harrelson. Melton. Trying to keep Ozzie and KW both together for far too long. Baines. Cooper. Herm Schneider. Greg Walker Gordon Beckham. Mark Buehrle. Bossard. Nancy Faust. Farmer and DJ. Paul Konerko last year. Brooks Boyer. Hahn as apprentice in waiting.

 

You would think the results on the baseball side would match the five consecutive playoff appearances on the bb side but it's actually the opposite. The White are a loyal and insulted family populated by the likes of Pierce, Skowron and Minoso. The Bulls are a cutthroat business where employees are whisked out the door with a Top Ten all-time winning percentage. Coaches are constantly hired and fired with an eye towards getting to the next level when White Sox fans would be simply elated with one playoff appearance.

 

Has loyalty led to malaise and apathy? Are the White Sox like a 1980's Japanese style "work team" where a guaranteed lifetime employment contract eventually leads to a lack of productivity because there's little or no fear of losing your position?

 

Or Reinsdorf simply can't stand disloyalty.....Ozzie talking to the Marlins while under contract and inseason....or Thibs using Van Gundy to trash the front office publicly?

 

Shouldn't the White Sox be run less as a hobby and more like the Bulls?

 

Because he doesn't want to.

 

[caulfield12]

Because he doesn't want to.

 

What, for example, has Buddy Bell done exceptionally well or even decently?

 

Is there anything he could do to get fired?

[southsider2k5]

What, for example, has Buddy Bell done exceptionally well or even decently?

 

Is there anything he could do to get fired?

 

What does that have to do with bringing in a manager who won't listen to authority?

[caulfield12]

The opposite.

 

The White Sox are all good "company men" who don't ever rock the boat...or question the longstanding way of doing things.

 

I'd take a dysfunctional frontt office of ten overachievers/tireless workers who don't always get along with co-workers and push their players to their limits than...well, whatever we have now. Sort of like a country club atmosphere.

 

If the Bulls made the same mistakes the White Sox make on a constant basis...would Thibs passively sit there and let it go?

 

 

Edited May 29, 2015 by caulfield12

[SCCWS]

 

 

Not sure how Chicago media is reacting since I live in New England. But national media is trashing Jerry on the Bulls fiasco. My gut says he won't touch Robin now until the off-season when the Bulls attention has died down.

[southsider2k5]

The opposite.

 

The White Sox are all good "company men" who don't ever rock the boat...or question the longstanding way of doing things.

 

I'd take a dysfunctional frontt office of ten overachievers/tireless workers who don't always get along with co-workers and push their players to their limits than...well, whatever we have now. Sort of like a country club atmosphere.

 

If the Bulls made the same mistakes the White Sox make on a constant basis...would Thibs passively sit there and let it go?

 

Yeah boy, that Ozzie Guillen played it by the book. Luckily we never had any problems with fundamentals while he was here.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The opposite.

 

The White Sox are all good "company men" who don't ever rock the boat...or question the longstanding way of doing things.

 

I'd take a dysfunctional frontt office of ten overachievers/tireless workers who don't always get along with co-workers and push their players to their limits than...well, whatever we have now. Sort of like a country club atmosphere.

 

If the Bulls made the same mistakes the White Sox make on a constant basis...would Thibs passively sit there and let it go?

 

 

He played Hinrich and Noah together for long stretches of a playoff series. Yes I think he'd passively let poor play go unnoticed.

[Dick Allen]

The opposite.

 

The White Sox are all good "company men" who don't ever rock the boat...or question the longstanding way of doing things.

 

I'd take a dysfunctional frontt office of ten overachievers/tireless workers who don't always get along with co-workers and push their players to their limits than...well, whatever we have now. Sort of like a country club atmosphere.

 

If the Bulls made the same mistakes the White Sox make on a constant basis...would Thibs passively sit there and let it go?

It's not a country club. Robin rips on players just not for you to watch:

 

Praised by the front office and players alike for his balanced demeanor, Ventura — who on Friday signed a multi-year contract extension — has been questioned several times by fans for those same qualities. They want to see Ventura air players out in the dugout and criticize them publicly for their poor play. Some assume that just because he doesn’t show his emotions outwardly that equates to a lack of passion for the job.

 

“You get that,” Ventura said. “Just because you don’t do it so they can get the satisfaction of seeing me jump somebody doesn’t mean it (doesn’t) happen. But everybody has an opinion, everybody has a preference and when you get a forum like this you get all of that.”

 

[

 

Part of the reason Ventura is popular with players is because of the way he handles them. Veteran first baseman Paul Konerko said Friday that Ventura reads and handles his players well. Ventura also prefers to handle his role as a taskmaster behind closed doors.

 

“That’s just the way I do it,” Ventura said. “I’d rather bring them in and do it inside the clubhouse. I played for managers that did it both ways and I think it’s more of an effective approach to do it inside and not let people see it. … It doesn’t mean I don’t care or I’m not mad. You realize that you are on TV and it’s stuff you can’t take back.”

 

While Hahn has no concerns about being criticized, he didn’t tolerate questions about his manager’s passion and rushed to Ventura’s defense.

 

“I didn’t think it was Robin’s place to have to explain how passionate he is,” Hahn said. “Those of us who are around him and see what he does on a daily basis and the amount of energy and time he puts in have the benefit of seeing that passion behind closed doors. It was important for me as one of those people to make that clear. … Although it’s not satisfying perhaps from a fan standpoint, we want that handled behind closed doors. It’s more effective when you have that conversation one on one with a player as opposed to airing it out in public.”

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

Not sure how Chicago media is reacting since I live in New England. But national media is trashing Jerry on the Bulls fiasco. My gut says he won't touch Robin now until the off-season when the Bulls attention has died down.

 

 

My gut says that he's not going to touch Robin at all anyway.

[southsider2k5]

My gut says that he's not going to touch Robin at all anyway.

 

If there was a 2% chance before, with the way the Thibs stuff went down, it is probably now a negative chance.

[bmags]

Bit of a difference between robin and thibs. Thibs was actually a winning coach, Robin is not. Sox go out of their way to support Robin, Bulls wen tout of their way to publicly undermine their coach mid-season...

 

Firing Robin would actually be a normal thing to do.

[caulfield12]

Bit of a difference between robin and thibs. Thibs was actually a winning coach, Robin is not. Sox go out of their way to support Robin, Bulls wen tout of their way to publicly undermine their coach mid-season...

 

Firing Robin would actually be a normal thing to do.

 

 

That's what is so hard to understand.

 

Did they promise him four or five years regardless of the results on the field?

[LDF]

Not sure how Chicago media is reacting since I live in New England. But national media is trashing Jerry on the Bulls fiasco. My gut says he won't touch Robin now until the off-season when the Bulls attention has died down.

 

that is a great question. i too would like to know that answer.

[bmags]

I just think they like him.

 

And for me, I don't care that firing him may not turn around the season. But for me he is not a manager making this team better, and I'm not personally invested in his career, so, congrats on being privileged with being an MLB manager but the team sucked under you.

[LDF]

Because he doesn't want to.

 

i don't know if that is the real answer.

 

but i think that person is not in the sox org nor was he a player for the sox.

 

but i do like your answer.

Edited May 29, 2015 by LDF

[Dick Allen]

What is funny is someone actually thinks the Bulls aren't loyal to their players, yet the President is John Paxson. The special assistant is Scottie Pippen. Wasn't Gar Forman Tim Floyd's assistant coach? Many ex Bulls have been assistant coaches and Bill Cartwright even was the head coach. And if Fred Hoiberg is hired...........former Bull.

 

Of course this type of loyalty is only frowned upon to a point. The people who complain the loudest about it many times are the same ones who think Frank Thomas should be the White Sox hitting coach.

[LDF]

It's not a country club. Robin rips on players just not for you to watch:

 

a real nice post and find.

 

my problem is not the handling of the players, but some of his decisions made during a game.

 

[LDF]

I just think they like him.

 

And for me, I don't care that firing him may not turn around the season. But for me he is not a manager making this team better, and I'm not personally invested in his career, so, congrats on being privileged with being an MLB manager but the team sucked under you.

 

and that is the plain cold hard facts.

 

a manager will find ways to motivate a team and players.

[LDF]

What is funny is someone actually thinks the Bulls aren't loyal to their players, yet the President is John Paxson. The special assistant is Scottie Pippen. Wasn't Gar Forman Tim Floyd's assistant coach? Many ex Bulls have been assistant coaches and Bill Cartwright even was the head coach. And if Fred Hoiberg is hired...........former Bull.

 

Of course this type of loyalty is only frowned upon to a point. The people who complain the loudest about it many times are the same ones who think Frank Thomas should be the White Sox hitting coach.

great post.

 

jr is loyal and sometime it can damage the org and pov.

 

re big frank. i never heard of that. many thanks for the that tidbit.

[ptatc]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...528-column.html

 

Why doesn't Reinsdorf find the baseball equivalent of Thibs?

 

Reading the last couple of paragraphs, you could exchange Ventura's name with Hoiberg's.

 

It's almost like Jekyll and Hyde. On the baseball side, loyalty and sentimentality reign supreme. Harrelson. Melton. Trying to keep Ozzie and KW both together for far too long. Baines. Cooper. Herm Schneider. Greg Walker Gordon Beckham. Mark Buehrle. Bossard. Nancy Faust. Farmer and DJ. Paul Konerko last year. Brooks Boyer. Hahn as apprentice in waiting.

 

You would think the results on the baseball side would match the five consecutive playoff appearances on the bb side but it's actually the opposite. The White are a loyal and insulted family populated by the likes of Pierce, Skowron and Minoso. The Bulls are a cutthroat business where employees are whisked out the door with a Top Ten all-time winning percentage. Coaches are constantly hired and fired with an eye towards getting to the next level when White Sox fans would be simply elated with one playoff appearance.

 

Has loyalty led to malaise and apathy? Are the White Sox like a 1980's Japanese style "work team" where a guaranteed lifetime employment contract eventually leads to a lack of productivity because there's little or no fear of losing your position?

 

Or Reinsdorf simply can't stand disloyalty.....Ozzie talking to the Marlins while under contract and inseason....or Thibs using Van Gundy to trash the front office publicly?

 

Shouldn't the White Sox be run less as a hobby and more like the Bulls?

Because he wants to win a championship and keep his players somewhat healthy?

 

Thibs has not proven anything except that he can win games in the regular season but not in the post season.

[ptatc]

The opposite.

 

The White Sox are all good "company men" who don't ever rock the boat...or question the longstanding way of doing things.

 

I'd take a dysfunctional frontt office of ten overachievers/tireless workers who don't always get along with co-workers and push their players to their limits than...well, whatever we have now. Sort of like a country club atmosphere.

 

If the Bulls made the same mistakes the White Sox make on a constant basis...would Thibs passively sit there and let it go?

Baseball is a different sport with a different type of intensity required. You can't drive baseball players that way over a 162 game season and expect results. Thibs has proved that you can't do it for a basketball season without the players falling apart or being drained and watching the other teams with more energy beat you.

[caulfield12]

Baseball is a different sport with a different type of intensity required. You can't drive baseball players that way over a 162 game season and expect results. Thibs has proved that you can't do it for a basketball season without the players falling apart or being drained and watching the other teams with more energy beat you.

 

 

And yet Ozzie was always blamed for his Sunday line-ups.

 

The irony is that he actually utilized his bench extremely well...and it paid off handsomely quite often.

 

Ventura hasn't had the same level of bench talent to utilize, so it's harder to make comparisons.

 

 

 

I do wonder if they have warned him about playing Alexei too often...of course, once again, with options like Leury Garcia or Olmedo, you can understand the hesitancy.

[LDF]

And yet Ozzie was always blamed for his Sunday line-ups.

 

The irony is that he actually utilized his bench extremely well...and it paid off handsomely quite often.

 

Ventura hasn't had the same level of bench talent to utilize, so it's harder to make comparisons.

 

 

 

I do wonder if they have warned him about playing Alexei too often...of course, once again, with options like Leury Garcia or Olmedo, you can understand the hesitancy.

 

i thought he would have learned his lesson with Sale last yr.