bmags Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ May 31, 2015 -> 12:34 PM) Channeling my inner Dick Allen, the Sox lineup in the 2008 playoffs featured zero players the White Sox drafted. Alexei was the only player that had played only for the Sox. The value of prospects seems to have changed. I used to feel confident that we could find a CQ, Uribe, etc ( worse examples being Jimenez, Harris), but they are so expensive. This is the formula Hahn used but avisail, eaton and Davidson took some legit talent to acquire, so... It all goes back to drafting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 31, 2015 -> 12:48 AM) I'm pretty sure the Sox won't be giving up a 2016 1st rounder to sign a QO Free Agent. Scratch big impact bat with QO attached off of the list. Just to point out - as of right now the White Sox would have the 9th pick in the draft at the current pace and therefore would lose their 2nd round pick if they signed a QO free agent, not their first round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 31, 2015 -> 01:52 PM) I read something yesterday where they are crying in Boston hoping this new guy they called up is goodbecause it has been since 2007 they have brought up a sarting pitcher that has been good for them. And that includes years with the great Theo in charge. True but there is some history there. They brought up Buchholz and Lester in 2006 and 2007. They traded Anabel Sanchez as part of the Josh Beckett trade and they traded Justin Masterson for VMart. So that is 4 pretty decent pitchers from 06-09 that were homegrown in their minor league system. They now supposedly have another batch of pitchers in AAA but Boston media is always touting stud prospects many of which have fizzled. But they do churn them out or use them as trade chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 31, 2015 -> 11:52 AM) I read something yesterday where they are crying in Boston hoping this new guy they called up is goodbecause it has been since 2007 they have brought up a sarting pitcher that has been good for them. And that includes years with the great Theo in charge. Proving that fanbases with three World Series trophies in just a single decade are even more demanding than White Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 31, 2015 -> 01:16 PM) Actually Sanchez has struggled for a month. His average had dropped 60 points over 3 weeks before he was recalled from AAA. From .400 to .340! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (raBBit @ May 31, 2015 -> 11:34 AM) Channeling my inner Dick Allen, the Sox lineup in the 2008 playoffs featured zero players the White Sox drafted. Alexei was the only player that had played only for the Sox. And how sustainable did those line-ups in 2005 and 2008 turn out to be? It's not really something to brag about in a current baseball paradigm where there's a premium on producing and controlling star-quality young impact players/pitchers. The example of Ramirez, of course, is fitting...a player who didn't spend any time at all in our minor league system. Edited May 31, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ May 31, 2015 -> 03:57 PM) How is any lineup sustainable? There's always turnover. I don't think young impact players are some new market inefficiency. They've always been important. The Sox just suck at doing it consistently so it gets magnified around here. If you are bad at something that's important you better be excellent the other important things. The sox had a great run with free agents, now they have not. The sox had a good run of acquiring pro ready prospects and plugging them in, they have still done pretty well here. The problem with relying on FA is obvious, when you are already paying players full value you get much less when you try to trade them. Drafting and developing players just makes everything easier, and the sox who are good at pitching but horrendous at hitting, are seeing what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (bmags @ May 31, 2015 -> 03:03 PM) If you are bad at something that's important you better be excellent the other important things. The sox had a great run with free agents, now they have not. The sox had a good run of acquiring pro ready prospects and plugging them in, they have still done pretty well here. The problem with relying on FA is obvious, when you are already paying players full value you get much less when you try to trade them. Drafting and developing players just makes everything easier, and the sox who are good at pitching but horrendous at hitting, are seeing what happens. And that's pretty obvious, because just think of all the big contracts we've given out (or taken on) and how easy they would have been to dump (that answer being not very): Konerko Buehrle Magglio Ordonez Jose Contreras Peavy (original deal with Padres) Rios Dunn Robertson LaRoche Me.Cabrera Danks In that category of not so big but not super easy to unload nevertheless, you have the likes of Duke, Bonifacio, Teahen and Jeff Keppinger. The one example of someone who who was pitching well (in Edwin Jackson), we still didn't get anything back in return because we had to dump Teahen. The only counter-example is the Jake Peavy deal...which worked out almost impossibly well. We also got away with one other bigger contract, being able to dump Freddy Garcia on the Phillies. So two. (Thankfully, Albert Belle opted out of his deal 17 years ago or we would have ended up with the Orioles' problem/s). Edited June 1, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 01:27 AM) And that's pretty obvious, because just think of all the big contracts we've given out (or taken on) and how easy they would have been to dump (that answer being not very): Konerko Buehrle Magglio Ordonez Jose Contreras Peavy (original deal with Padres) Rios Dunn Robertson LaRoche Me.Cabrera Danks In that category of not so big but not super easy to unload nevertheless, you have the likes of Duke, Bonifacio, Teahen and Jeff Keppinger. The one example of someone who who was pitching well (in Edwin Jackson), we still didn't get anything back in return because we had to dump Teahen. The only counter-example is the Jake Peavy deal...which worked out almost impossibly well. We also got away with one other bigger contract, being able to dump Freddy Garcia on the Phillies. So two. (Thankfully, Albert Belle opted out of his deal 17 years ago or we would have ended up with the Orioles' problem/s). QUOTE (bmags @ May 31, 2015 -> 09:03 PM) If you are bad at something that's important you better be excellent the other important things. The sox had a great run with free agents, now they have not. The sox had a good run of acquiring pro ready prospects and plugging them in, they have still done pretty well here. The problem with relying on FA is obvious, when you are already paying players full value you get much less when you try to trade them. Drafting and developing players just makes everything easier, and the sox who are good at pitching but horrendous at hitting, are seeing what happens. these 2 post are very good one. but i would also like to add, when in that time, the farm doesn't produce squat, the team has to field a team and how to do it. but what Hahn did. but the org did rush some players and didn't quite have backup in others area. the problem is, we as fans saw this, why couldn't the sox FO do the same. these players on paper are better than what they are showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The only reasonable adjustments I see at this point are to: - Fire Robin. - Do not let Melky near a bat against lefties at this point (he currently has a .087 BA against them). Platoon him with Bonafacio (who's career splits favor lefties), or trade for someone to take those at bats. - Swap roles for Sanchez and Beckham. - Swap roles for Soto and Flowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (Jake @ May 31, 2015 -> 04:31 PM) From .400 to .340! So a AAA player has a great April then goes into a 3 week slump and you call him up??? That may be why he is not even hitting his weight in the majors. Maybe he is even playing hurt which would explain the horrible May he has had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 07:27 AM) So a AAA player has a great April then goes into a 3 week slump and you call him up??? That may be why he is not even hitting his weight in the majors. Maybe he is even playing hurt which would explain the horrible May he has had. They didn't call him up for his offense though. Johnson was killing the Sox defensively at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (Whitey @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 12:46 PM) The only reasonable adjustments I see at this point are to: - Fire Robin. - Do not let Melky near a bat against lefties at this point (he currently has a .087 BA against them). Platoon him with Bonafacio (who's career splits favor lefties), or trade for someone to take those at bats. - Swap roles for Sanchez and Beckham. - Swap roles for Soto and Flowers. for me, i would really think about moving Melky down and switch with Conor and / or Aelexei depending on the pitcher. think about switching Avi and Adam. in stead of using the sabe formula of coaching, go back to the hot bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 08:51 AM) for me, i would really think about moving Melky down and switch with Conor and / or Aelexei depending on the pitcher. think about switching Avi and Adam. in stead of using the sabe formula of coaching, go back to the hot bat. I don't think the lineup really matters that much but If I changed it I'd go with: Eaton Avi LaRoche Abreu Melky Ramirez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 02:13 PM) I don't think the lineup really matters that much but If I changed it I'd go with: Eaton Avi LaRoche Abreu Melky Ramirez nice..... and i will say this, lets do, i am game. i am for playing the hot hand now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 09:18 AM) nice..... and i will say this, lets do, i am game. i am for playing the hot hand now. I like Avi at 2. I'd put LaRoche in front of Abreu because he draws a ton of walks and hopefully Jose would bat with men on base more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 02:24 PM) I like Avi at 2. I'd put LaRoche in front of Abreu because he draws a ton of walks and hopefully Jose would bat with men on base more often. but the other point is to move the other players down until they start to click. get that extra pressure off their back. anything to jump start this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 31, 2015 -> 11:15 AM) If the White Sox fans had Bryant, Russell, Soler, Baez and Schwarber to cheer for...at least they would be excited like Sox fans when Ventura, Sosa, One Dog and Thomas came up...or later when Durham, Magglio, C-Lee, Cameron/Konerko, Singleton, Rowand and Crede debuted. The Sox had to really suck to get Ventura and Thomas (+ McDowell and A. Fernandez.) Just like when they got Rodon and Sale. Ordonez and Lee were lucky foreign signings, and Konerko was a great pickup in a trade, but the rest are overrated by Sox fans. They traded a superior player in Bobby Bonilla to eventually end up with Lance Johnson. Durham was flawed; as was Cameron. Singleton, Rowand, and Crede were never great in a "star" sense - just solid players with poor plate discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 05:08 PM) The Sox had to really suck to get Ventura and Thomas (+ McDowell and A. Fernandez.) Just like when they got Rodon and Sale. Ordonez and Lee were lucky foreign signings, and Konerko was a great pickup in a trade, but the rest are overrated by Sox fans. They traded a superior player in Bobby Bonilla to eventually end up with Lance Johnson. Durham was flawed; as was Cameron. Singleton, Rowand, and Crede were never great in a "star" sense - just solid players with poor plate discipline. that whole time it was great to be a sox fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 12:08 PM) The Sox had to really suck to get Ventura and Thomas (+ McDowell and A. Fernandez.) Just like when they got Rodon and Sale. Ordonez and Lee were lucky foreign signings, and Konerko was a great pickup in a trade, but the rest are overrated by Sox fans. They traded a superior player in Bobby Bonilla to eventually end up with Lance Johnson. Durham was flawed; as was Cameron. Singleton, Rowand, and Crede were never great in a "star" sense - just solid players with poor plate discipline. What makes signing Magglio and Carlos Lee lucky? Other teams had functional foreign development for 10 years while we had a criminal. Maybe we are just normally unlucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 12:54 PM) that whole time it was great to be a sox fan. Funny perspective. During that stretch they were in the middle of a 10 year drought for making a playoff appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 06:00 PM) Funny perspective. During that stretch they were in the middle of a 10 year drought for making a playoff appearance. what during the 90's?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I would like to see either Avi or Abreu bat second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) What makes signing Magglio and Carlos Lee lucky? Other teams had functional foreign development for 10 years while we had a criminal. Maybe we are just normally unlucky. It was fortunate to get two MLB star quality players from South America when their foreign scouting had been so fruitless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 02:01 PM) what during the 90's?? 1984-1992 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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