So How Does Hahn Fix This Mess?

[elrockinMT]

Who has a good young 3Bman and/or catcher to give up for Shark? Do they want to do that? Do we? We have a group of real good players not doing so good right now, but if they get rolling we are still in this thing. If we can't make up ground for the 2015 season why just tear up a team because we didn't suceed this year. All that translates into is tearing up your team every year and starting over because you didn't get to the World Series. Only one team wins that crown every year. Concentrate on building the team and not tearing it down just because you are frustrated

[Balta1701]

Who has a good young 3Bman and/or catcher to give up for Shark? Do they want to do that? Do we? We have a group of real good players not doing so good right now, but if they get rolling we are still in this thing. If we can't make up ground for the 2015 season why just tear up a team because we didn't suceed this year. All that translates into is tearing up your team every year and starting over because you didn't get to the World Series. Only one team wins that crown every year. Concentrate on building the team and not tearing it down just because you are frustrated

People have been wondering how we could get our hands on Jason Castro for years and the Astros suddenly find themselves off to a hot start.

[knightni]

Who has a good young 3Bman and/or catcher to give up for Shark? Do they want to do that? Do we? We have a group of real good players not doing so good right now, but if they get rolling we are still in this thing. If we can't make up ground for the 2015 season why just tear up a team because we didn't suceed this year. All that translates into is tearing up your team every year and starting over because you didn't get to the World Series. Only one team wins that crown every year. Concentrate on building the team and not tearing it down just because you are frustrated

 

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2015/#list=hou

[harfman77]

At this point you just need to wait it out. The offense will click at some point, but this is the problem when you add multiple guys to a lineup in a season. I think mid July you look at the team and where they are and see what marketable assets you have that won't be contributing in two seasons and start looking to move them. I do think this team is close to going on a run, they have all the right parts just have not been able to get them all working together at the same time.

[harfman77]

Who has a good young 3Bman and/or catcher to give up for Shark? Do they want to do that? Do we? We have a group of real good players not doing so good right now, but if they get rolling we are still in this thing. If we can't make up ground for the 2015 season why just tear up a team because we didn't suceed this year. All that translates into is tearing up your team every year and starting over because you didn't get to the World Series. Only one team wins that crown every year. Concentrate on building the team and not tearing it down just because you are frustrated

 

I think Shark has more value as a FA to the Sox than as trade bait at this point. Any trade would have to be worth more than the corresponding draft pick AND the draft slot money associated with that pick that would be attached to his departure.

[chitownsportsfan]

At this point you just need to wait it out. The offense will click at some point, but this is the problem when you add multiple guys to a lineup in a season. I think mid July you look at the team and where they are and see what marketable assets you have that won't be contributing in two seasons and start looking to move them. I do think this team is close to going on a run, they have all the right parts just have not been able to get them all working together at the same time.

 

 

As bad as they've played at times the 2nd wild card means that by the deadline you're still going to have 2/3 of hte teams in the league thinking they can make the playoffs. I agree, wait it out and if the team is really bad (say 10 under) or half way good (say 5 over) then you make a move. If they are +-3 of .500 just stand pat.

 

Those would be my general rules but I can see scenarios where they'd want to consider other strategies.

[LDF]

1984-1992

and i was talking when big frank and robin and company was playing for the sox. somewhere during 1990 thru 1998.

[bmags]

It was fortunate to get two MLB star quality players from South America when their foreign scouting had been so fruitless.

 

Fair enough.

 

Crazy how patient you have to be for foreign scouting. We won't see Marco Paddy's influence for another 3-4 years.

[southsider2k5]

Fair enough.

 

Crazy how patient you have to be for foreign scouting. We won't see Marco Paddy's influence for another 3-4 years.

 

The press release on his signing on with the Sox is from Nov 30, 2011. That means his first July 2 class with Chicago was in 2012. That means the old players from his first class are somewhere around their 19th birthday, give or take a year. That is about three years younger than Carlos Sanchez.

[LDF]

Fair enough.

 

Crazy how patient you have to be for foreign scouting. We won't see Marco Paddy's influence for another 3-4 years.

 

this is why i am soo on the sox overspending on the int'l draft this july 2. to resupply the farm that should take around 5-6 yrs to see the fruits of this draft yr.

[Balta1701]

this is why i am soo on the sox overspending on the int'l draft this july 2. to resupply the farm that should take around 5-6 yrs to see the fruits of this draft yr.

1. There is no international draft.

 

2. If the overspending penalties are harsh enough that taking them turns out to majorly hurt a team, then it will also take you 5-6 years to realize that it was a major mistake.

[LDF]

1. There is no international draft.

 

2. If the overspending penalties are harsh enough that taking them turns out to majorly hurt a team, then it will also take you 5-6 years to realize that it was a major mistake.

 

see what i mean on being wrong again.

 

but i disagree on the second. the scarcity of prospects in this systems is horrible, maybe beyond horrible. spend i july 2 and sign all you can. including Vlad son, pitchers and other players. take the 2 yr penalty.

 

next yr, the sox has what appears to be a protected 1 rounder, a comp pick. the next will be a regular draft and the yr after all back to normal. in the mean time the int't drafted players will have develop 3 yrs, it is very doable and it is the smart way to get bodies in the systems.

[Balta1701]

see what i mean on being wrong again.

 

but i disagree on the second. the scarcity of prospects in this systems is horrible, maybe beyond horrible. spend i july 2 and sign all you can. including Vlad son, pitchers and other players. take the 2 yr penalty.

 

next yr, the sox has what appears to be a protected 1 rounder, a comp pick. the next will be a regular draft and the yr after all back to normal. in the mean time the int't drafted players will have develop 3 yrs, it is very doable and it is the smart way to get bodies in the systems.

I don't strongly disagree, but I generally lean towards disagreeing that this is a "smart way" to get bodies into the system. I lean towards thinking its the opposite - international free agents are such a gamble that to me the smart way to handle them is to gather as many as possible.

 

If one out of 50 turns into a big league regular, then you might have to sign 50-75 before you find a big league regular. If you spend all your signings on 1-2 guys then they absolutely cannot bust because it will cost you your chances to find a big league regular, and "cannot bust" is something I wouldn't expect you can say when you're signing international 16 year olds.

[LDF]

I don't strongly disagree, but I generally lean towards disagreeing that this is a "smart way" to get bodies into the system. I lean towards thinking its the opposite - international free agents are such a gamble that to me the smart way to handle them is to gather as many as possible.

i understand and respect what you are saying.

 

prospects in general are all gambles. there is a slew of unfulfilled 1 rounders that didn't panned out for the sox. look at the gamble on 2 different prospects in the sox system now, Hawkins and Anderson.

 

i am thinking you get 10 and hope 1 or 2 may develop this will be done in 1 full swoop to gather them and develop them. of course hoping along the way. plus this yr there suppose to be a nice group of prospects.

 

now that number of a gamble and see how that equates with 3 players. long odds there.

[bmags]

The press release on his signing on with the Sox is from Nov 30, 2011. That means his first July 2 class with Chicago was in 2012. That means the old players from his first class are somewhere around their 19th birthday, give or take a year. That is about three years younger than Carlos Sanchez.

 

Right, which was his first class and who knows how established his scouting network was then.

 

Probably 2020 before we have an idea about how his players are contributing in minors.

[LDF]

Saying "I hope RV has the flexibility to move Melky from the #2 hole this season" got me absolutely torched in March. I think it's a move that needs to be made. I hate losing Abreu at bats but he hasn't been playing to his ability anyways. I'd go with this lineup until Abreu starts rolling again.

 

L Eaton

R Garcia

L LaRoche

R Abreu

S Cabrera

L/R Gillaspie/Beckham

R Alexei

R Soto

S Sanchez

 

Also, when do we start giving Soto more of the starts? We've given Flowers 1100+ PAs to show he's mediocre. I say Flowers starts for Sale, Soto starts for Samardzija/Rodon, and Soto starts for every LHP. Soto has been so hot and cold up (game-to-game) I think some regularity could get him finding that potential we were excited about when he was signed. He makes a lot more hard contact.

 

I am sucker for this kind of stuff and it's not tangbile but I like the way he carries himself too. I know the team raves about Flowers' makeup but you kind of have to when he doesn't do anything well. Soto is attached to Rodon during his starts, gets pumped for his pitchers (Samardzija especially) when they hit their spots and I saw him with his arm around Sanchez after he recorded his third out of the game. Again, not a deciding factor, but Soto is definitely a plus in the clubhouse.

man that is a nice lineup.

 

but the point is this is until everybody starts to click. it won't be permanent.

[Dunt]

Saying "I hope RV has the flexibility to move Melky from the #2 hole this season" got me absolutely torched in March. I think it's a move that needs to be made. I hate losing Abreu at bats but he hasn't been playing to his ability anyways. I'd go with this lineup until Abreu starts rolling again.

 

L Eaton

R Garcia

L LaRoche

R Abreu

S Cabrera

L/R Gillaspie/Beckham

R Alexei

R Soto

S Sanchez

 

Also, when do we start giving Soto more of the starts? We've given Flowers 1100+ PAs to show he's mediocre. I say Flowers starts for Sale, Soto starts for Samardzija/Rodon, and Soto starts for every LHP. Soto has been so hot and cold up (game-to-game) I think some regularity could get him finding that potential we were excited about when he was signed. He makes a lot more hard contact.

 

I am sucker for this kind of stuff and it's not tangbile but I like the way he carries himself too. I know the team raves about Flowers' makeup but you kind of have to when he doesn't do anything well. Soto is attached to Rodon during his starts, gets pumped for his pitchers (Samardzija especially) when they hit their spots and I saw him with his arm around Sanchez after he recorded his third out of the game. Again, not a deciding factor, but Soto is definitely a plus in the clubhouse.

 

I think I like that lineup quite a bit more than currently constructed

[ChiSox59]

Saying "I hope RV has the flexibility to move Melky from the #2 hole this season" got me absolutely torched in March. I think it's a move that needs to be made. I hate losing Abreu at bats but he hasn't been playing to his ability anyways. I'd go with this lineup until Abreu starts rolling again.

 

L Eaton

R Garcia

L LaRoche

R Abreu

S Cabrera

L/R Gillaspie/Beckham

R Alexei

R Soto

S Sanchez

 

Also, when do we start giving Soto more of the starts? We've given Flowers 1100+ PAs to show he's mediocre. I say Flowers starts for Sale, Soto starts for Samardzija/Rodon, and Soto starts for every LHP. Soto has been so hot and cold up (game-to-game) I think some regularity could get him finding that potential we were excited about when he was signed. He makes a lot more hard contact.

 

I am sucker for this kind of stuff and it's not tangbile but I like the way he carries himself too. I know the team raves about Flowers' makeup but you kind of have to when he doesn't do anything well. Soto is attached to Rodon during his starts, gets pumped for his pitchers (Samardzija especially) when they hit their spots and I saw him with his arm around Sanchez after he recorded his third out of the game. Again, not a deciding factor, but Soto is definitely a plus in the clubhouse.

 

I like the ideas. A couple thoughts:

 

-Melky has hit into some really hard luck. If you don't watch most/all of the games, it'd be hard to know that by looking at his numbers. He has been roping the ball right at defenders for weeks. He puts the ball in play and strikes out as few as anyone in MLB (struck out 19 times this year, which is 7th least for qualifiers in MLB). I don't hate the idea of him in the 5 spot in the lineup versus the 2, but I don't think we should be down on Melky. They're gonna start falling.

 

-I agree that Soto needs more starts, but man do I hate watching him catch. It is literally hard to watch.

 

[caulfield12]

I like the ideas. A couple thoughts:

 

-Melky has hit into some really hard luck. If you don't watch most/all of the games, it'd be hard to know that by looking at his numbers. He has been roping the ball right at defenders for weeks. He puts the ball in play and strikes out as few as anyone in MLB (struck out 19 times this year, which is 7th least for qualifiers in MLB). I don't hate the idea of him in the 5 spot in the lineup versus the 2, but I don't think we should be down on Melky. They're gonna start falling.

 

-I agree that Soto needs more starts, but man do I hate watching him catch. It is literally hard to watch.

 

 

I feel like we said this for half the season in 2008 when Swisher was "hitting into bad luck."

 

The main difference is that he was still taking his walks, at least. And he never should have been hitting leadoff.

[chitownsportsfan]

Melky is going to have a 260/300/380 season is what it is at this point. THe key will be getting something out of 2B, SS, C and Rodon/Danks.

 

If they can get a turnaround at 3 of those 4 positions, I think they have enough elsewhere to make a run. Big if on that production though, especially at 2B and C.

Edited June 2, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[harfman77]

I don't strongly disagree, but I generally lean towards disagreeing that this is a "smart way" to get bodies into the system. I lean towards thinking its the opposite - international free agents are such a gamble that to me the smart way to handle them is to gather as many as possible.

 

If one out of 50 turns into a big league regular, then you might have to sign 50-75 before you find a big league regular. If you spend all your signings on 1-2 guys then they absolutely cannot bust because it will cost you your chances to find a big league regular, and "cannot bust" is something I wouldn't expect you can say when you're signing international 16 year olds.

 

 

But this is why teams go over. Under the current system a team can amass four years worth of bodies while taking two years of penalties. Penalties which do not prevent you from signing anyone, only cap what you can sign them for. The Yankees this year can sign nine more guys at $250K each to go with their huge haul of highly rated talent from last season. The problem for the Sox is that you have to really hit on a lot of targets to make it worth your while. There are a couple Cubans that will put the Sox over by themselves if the Sox sign them, but they don't really have enough deals in place with the LA group to make as large of an impact as you should when considering taking on the penalties.

[LDF]

But this is why teams go over. Under the current system a team can amass four years worth of bodies while taking two years of penalties. Penalties which do not prevent you from signing anyone, only cap what you can sign them for. The Yankees this year can sign nine more guys at $250K each to go with their huge haul of highly rated talent from last season. The problem for the Sox is that you have to really hit on a lot of targets to make it worth your while. There are a couple Cubans that will put the Sox over by themselves if the Sox sign them, but they don't really have enough deals in place with the LA group to make as large of an impact as you should when considering taking on the penalties.

that is if the sox will want to sign them.

[southsider2k5]

But this is why teams go over. Under the current system a team can amass four years worth of bodies while taking two years of penalties. Penalties which do not prevent you from signing anyone, only cap what you can sign them for. The Yankees this year can sign nine more guys at $250K each to go with their huge haul of highly rated talent from last season. The problem for the Sox is that you have to really hit on a lot of targets to make it worth your while. There are a couple Cubans that will put the Sox over by themselves if the Sox sign them, but they don't really have enough deals in place with the LA group to make as large of an impact as you should when considering taking on the penalties.

 

This might be the year to go over. With the crazy outflow of talent that is happening all at once in Cuba, this would be the year. I don't know if it is the US relations changes or what, but it seems like every other day someone is leaving Cuba.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

This might be the year to go over. With the crazy outflow of talent that is happening all at once in Cuba, this would be the year. I don't know if it is the US relations changes or what, but it seems like every other day someone is leaving Cuba.

 

 

I completely agree. The Sox could basically sit out next year and I think the International Draft is on the horizon at some point as well.

[knightni]

The way the Caribbean is set up for developing MLB guys, you wonder why the NFL doesn't set up academies in Scandinavia and/or Russia.