Cohesiveness between development/coaching and scouting

[LDF]

In this thread I would also offer this thought. All of this is a process. You just don't change something overnight and have it work. The Sox have gone a long way towards changing their draft philosophy over the last few years corresponding with the changes to the CBA and the draft slotting, plus there has been more money than ever put into our system by the team. You may not see the full results for the better part of a decade.

 

A lot of making results here is sucking really badly for a long period of time. It is how KC built their system. It is how the Cubs built their system. It is how Tampa built their system, and even more indicting is that their system has pretty well dried up corresponding with the time period of having a pretty good team for a decent period of time.

 

We have started to see some of the results already, as the White Sox farm system is as highly rated as it has been in years. We are about to put another top prospect into it at the #8 pick, and there are rumors of some pretty good signings from Latin America, not to mention some of that talent is starting to filter into the lower levels of the minors.

 

We are getting there, slowly but surely.

 

nice and i agree, but there is still a lot that still needs to be fixed.

 

real nice.

[caulfield12]

In this thread I would also offer this thought. All of this is a process. You just don't change something overnight and have it work. The Sox have gone a long way towards changing their draft philosophy over the last few years corresponding with the changes to the CBA and the draft slotting, plus there has been more money than ever put into our system by the team. You may not see the full results for the better part of a decade.

 

A lot of making results here is sucking really badly for a long period of time. It is how KC built their system. It is how the Cubs built their system. It is how Tampa built their system, and even more indicting is that their system has pretty well dried up corresponding with the time period of having a pretty good team for a decent period of time.

 

We have started to see some of the results already, as the White Sox farm system is as highly rated as it has been in years. We are about to put another top prospect into it at the #8 pick, and there are rumors of some pretty good signings from Latin America, not to mention some of that talent is starting to filter into the lower levels of the minors.

 

We are getting there, slowly but surely.

 

 

But then that essentially means a 6-8 year rebuilding process like the Cubs/Astros/Rays and not one in half that amount of time...

 

What has been the difference doing it this way? We've added about 1900 fans per game this season...at the cost of 6 years of cost-controlled Marcus Semien (at the very best, a net wash). If they don't trade Samardzija this season, the impact of this trade won't even be seen or felt in the organization until 2019 or 2020.

 

In the end, the White Sox are still going to finish in the 25-30 range for attendance, so wouldn't it have been better to hold off one more offseason before blowing all their ammunition? Chicago fans are going to pay more attention to the Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks and Cubs until the Sox have a team capable of making a deep playoff run anyway.

Edited June 1, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

But then that essentially means a 6-8 year rebuilding process like the Cubs/Astros/Rays and not one in half that amount of time...

 

What has been the difference doing it this way? We've added about 1900 fans per game this season...at the cost of 6 years of cost-controlled Marcus Semien (at the very best, a net wash). If they don't trade Samardzija this season, the impact of this trade won't even be seen or felt in the organization until 2019 or 2020.

 

In the end, the White Sox are still going to finish in the 25-30 range for attendance, so wouldn't it have been better to hold off one more offseason before blowing all their ammunition? Chicago fans are going to pay more attention to the Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks and Cubs until the Sox have a team capable of making a deep playoff run anyway.

 

trading for Shark, well i am having mixed feelings on that. the problem is the sox went out and spent the money, i look at it being wasted money b/c someone didn't have the ability to judge the teams talent base.

 

my biggest rant, which i have done before, why spend the money if they didn't finish the job. wasting Semien and Bassitt.

 

but their, sox org, problem is, what to do with Danks contract and their thought that Hector will be putting up the same numbers as in last yr...

[Kyyle23]

Well, I kind of doubt that KW's every going to write a book where he donates 100% of the monies raised to charity.

 

But here's hoping...

 

Well damn, Dayton Moore is now king of all baseball.

[chitownsportsfan]

Until I see a Sox position player, home grown, put up more than 2 fWAR in a season, I don't care how highly the farm system is ranked. Produce wins at the MLB level, that is the point of the farm system -- not winning prospect rankings.

 

And the premise of this thread -- a Dayton Moore book -- is laughable. Moore is a bottom 1/3 GM, that his Royals club took advantage of the new playoff rules to squeak into a WS says little if anything about his prowess in evaluating "the will to win". I think it's more "suck for almost a decade, reap the top 5 picks, and eventually enough will come through".

 

I agree with Dick here, quoting Moore as an authority on team building is absurd.

[southsider2k5]

there is no way the sox org got away from any penalty b/c of Widler. there had to be a self impose penalty so they could keep it out of the media.

 

if anyone will think that no slap on the hand or harsher penalty not coming from the MLB bosses. then they are not wanting to look at it.

 

There is way too much tin foil in that post for me. Unless they could connect back to the higher ups in the organization, there is no point in giving them a penalty. Do teams get an additional penalty when someone tests positive for steroids? No. The penalty of suspension is enough. Same thing here.

[southsider2k5]

But then that essentially means a 6-8 year rebuilding process like the Cubs/Astros/Rays and not one in half that amount of time...

 

What has been the difference doing it this way? We've added about 1900 fans per game this season...at the cost of 6 years of cost-controlled Marcus Semien (at the very best, a net wash). If they don't trade Samardzija this season, the impact of this trade won't even be seen or felt in the organization until 2019 or 2020.

 

In the end, the White Sox are still going to finish in the 25-30 range for attendance, so wouldn't it have been better to hold off one more offseason before blowing all their ammunition? Chicago fans are going to pay more attention to the Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks and Cubs until the Sox have a team capable of making a deep playoff run anyway.

 

Which is why we also hit the free agent market so hard.

[southsider2k5]

trading for Shark, well i am having mixed feelings on that. the problem is the sox went out and spent the money, i look at it being wasted money b/c someone didn't have the ability to judge the teams talent base.

 

my biggest rant, which i have done before, why spend the money if they didn't finish the job. wasting Semien and Bassitt.

 

but their, sox org, problem is, what to do with Danks contract and their thought that Hector will be putting up the same numbers as in last yr...

 

Neither of them are that good. Bassitt isn't even on a major league roster right now, and if you think Micah Johnson was a bad defender, just wait until you see Semien's 18 errors.

[chitownsportsfan]

There is way too much tin foil in that post for me. Unless they could connect back to the higher ups in the organization, there is no point in giving them a penalty. Do teams get an additional penalty when someone tests positive for steroids? No. The penalty of suspension is enough. Same thing here.

 

The real damage wasn't even through any official sanction but all the whispers from the buscones about the unscrupulous Sox.

[southsider2k5]

The real damage wasn't even through any official sanction but all the whispers from the buscones about the unscrupulous Sox.

 

Which is why it took us years to rebuild our Latin American presence.

[chitownsportsfan]

Yea Semien has come down to earth hard. Down to a 118 wRC+ and 1.0 fWAR on the year. He's lost like .7fWAR in the past two weeks.

 

I'm still not convinced he's a MLB infielder, let alone a SS.

[chitownsportsfan]

Which is why it took us years to rebuild our Latin American presence.

 

indeed, what a disaster. Set the Sox back at least a decade.

Edited June 1, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[LDF]

There is way too much tin foil in that post for me. Unless they could connect back to the higher ups in the organization, there is no point in giving them a penalty. Do teams get an additional penalty when someone tests positive for steroids? No. The penalty of suspension is enough. Same thing here.

 

if they were involve in either the cover up or providing help, hell yeah, there would be penalties.

[LDF]

Neither of them are that good. Bassitt isn't even on a major league roster right now, and if you think Micah Johnson was a bad defender, just wait until you see Semien's 18 errors.

that will be if he would be playing ss, i am talking about 2nd base.

[LDF]

The real damage wasn't even through any official sanction but all the whispers from the buscones about the unscrupulous Sox.

i agree, if there would have been official punishment, this org would be set back even further.

[southsider2k5]

that will be if he would be playing ss, i am talking about 2nd base.

 

Yeah, he wouldn't go from the worst SS in baseball defensively, to a good 2B. The same problems in his game would still exist.

[LDF]

Yeah, he wouldn't go from the worst SS in baseball defensively, to a good 2B. The same problems in his game would still exist.

 

who knows, no is a sooth sayer that can see the future. there is many intangibles that will be involve,

 

but saying this season in error will equate to if he would have been a 2nd baseman is not logical.

[Boopa1219]

What book?

[southsider2k5]

who knows, no is a sooth sayer that can see the future. there is many intangibles that will be involve,

 

but saying this season in error will equate to if he would have been a 2nd baseman is not logical.

 

His fundamentals don't change just because he moves positions. No one would go from the worst SS in baseball, to even an average 2B. Does his ability to track the ball improve somehow at 2B?

 

[LDF]

His fundamentals don't change just because he moves positions. No one would go from the worst SS in baseball, to even an average 2B. Does his ability to track the ball improve somehow at 2B?

 

then answer me these questions

 

1. 2 totally different positions, 2 totally different ways of playing it, could someone be playing outside their natural position and still does well??? b/c on the flip, they could also perform bad.

 

2. what was his errors like the yr before when he was with the soxs???

[Quin]

Dayton Moore is an atrocious GM who lucked into last year. That Royals team so overachieved it's not even funny at this point.

 

Kenny has more playoff appearances and a WS title. Maybe he should write a book. That '05 team was masterfully constructed.

 

 

 

 

[LDF]

Dayton Moore is an atrocious GM who lucked into last year. That Royals team so overachieved it's not even funny at this point.

 

Kenny has more playoff appearances and a WS title. Maybe he should write a book. That '05 team was masterfully constructed.

 

oh i wish i can think of something funny now.

[Jerksticks]

^^ nice post. And I'll add the Cubs basically cheated to get where they are. I mean has any major market team ever lost ON PURPOSE for half of a decade, simultaneously signing guys for one year rentals and flipping them at the deadlines? Sure it works when you lose on purpose. I'm glad we've had good teams on paper almost every year since 2000. Losing on purpose is despicable.

[Quin]

^^ nice post. And I'll add the Cubs basically cheated to get where they are. I mean has any major market team ever lost ON PURPOSE for half of a decade, simultaneously signing guys for one year rentals and flipping them at the deadlines? Sure it works when you lose on purpose. I'm glad we've had good teams on paper almost every year since 2000. Losing on purpose is despicable.

 

And there's still the chance it blows up in their face.

 

And the fact that there was no evidence of tampering with Maddon is laughable.

 

Also, only the Cubs could purposefully lose for so long and come out on top. If the Sox did that they'd have to shut their doors. Just ONE throw-in-the-towel season hurt the fanbase pretty bad. Royals games used to be ghost towns. Same for Tampa.

[Balta1701]

And there's still the chance it blows up in their face.

 

And the fact that there was no evidence of tampering with Maddon is laughable.

 

Also, only the Cubs could purposefully lose for so long and come out on top. If the Sox did that they'd have to shut their doors. Just ONE throw-in-the-towel season hurt the fanbase pretty bad. Royals games used to be ghost towns. Same for Tampa.

Well, to be fair Tampa is still ghost towns...

 

But if you look at the other side...there's now multiple teams that have "lost for a number of years and immediately started filling their ballpark once they turned that around based on the draft picks they stockpiled". Texas Rangers, Pirates, Royals.

 

The Rays couldn't fill their park even when winning and the Cubs couldn't empty their park even while losing, so they're the 2 extremes it seems. As long as your fan base is better than the Rays...