KW: play is "embarassing" but team can still win ALC

[LittleHurt05]

Which kind of bums me out. Kenny's got a losing record as a GM but he gave JR a ring and that's apparently a lifetime pass. I'm left to wonder what Dan Evans might have done. Guy has a great eye for talent.

 

This has been really annoying me and for some reason that Konerko ceremony really brought it out. The '05 Sox have become the '85 Bears, and KW is the new Ditka. One shining year has pretty much covered up year after year of underachieving and losing to teams with less resources. The golden era of baseball with Konerko & Buehrle produced one more postseason win outside of 2005. Yet because the franchise sucked for the preceding 85 years, no one seems to care and KW gets promoted.

[LDF]

This has been really annoying me and for some reason that Konerko ceremony really brought it out. The '05 Sox have become the '85 Bears, and KW is the new Ditka. One shining year has pretty much covered up year after year of underachieving and losing to teams with less resources. The golden era of baseball with Konerko & Buehrle produced one more postseason win outside of 2005. Yet because the franchise sucked for the preceding 85 years, no one seems to care and KW gets promoted.

 

real nice analysis.

[Big Hurtin]

If Williams and Hahn are teflon, could they at least get rid of some scouts / advisors? Whoever thought that giving Melky Cabrera and Adam Laroche those deals was a good idea needs to be gone. There are teams with far better track records of seeing things that the White Sox obviously don't.

 

Who was the last non-pitcher that they "hit" on? Everybody and their brother was in on Abreu, so I don't include him.

[Dick Allen]

If Williams and Hahn are teflon, could they at least get rid of some scouts / advisors? Whoever thought that giving Melky Cabrera and Adam Laroche those deals was a good idea needs to be gone. There are teams with far better track records of seeing things that the White Sox obviously don't.

 

Who was the last non-pitcher that they "hit" on? Everybody and their brother was in on Abreu, so I don't include him.

There were people here who thought CarGo, Matt Kemp, and Jayson Heyward were good ideas. Sometimes it doesn't work. I really don't know the hate directed LaRoche's way. He's been doing pretty well lately. I am also sure Melky will rebound at least some.

[Big Hurtin]

There were people here who thought CarGo, Matt Kemp, and Jayson Heyward were good ideas. Sometimes it doesn't work. I really don't know the hate directed LaRoche's way. He's been doing pretty well lately. I am also sure Melky will rebound at least some.

Why have a front office then? Reinsdorf can just have one his grandkids poll a message board.

[pettie4sox]

It's time for Melky to get back on the juice.

[Dick Allen]

Why have a front office then? Reinsdorf can just have one his grandkids poll a message board.

I think most were very happy with the White Sox acquisitions this past offseason. The team hasn't gelled yet, and maybe never will. But the decisions seemed fairly solid. There isn't a GM in baseball that hasn't made a few mistakes. The thought process here seemed pretty solid. I didn't agree with all of it. I was really against what they gave Duke, and couldn't understand waiting a year for Samardjiza. But if they are trying to win, and not waste Sale and Abreu's prime years, you have to take chances. Some usually don't work out. There still is time for these to work out.

[SCCWS]

There were people here who thought CarGo, Matt Kemp, and Jayson Heyward were good ideas. Sometimes it doesn't work. I really don't know the hate directed LaRoche's way. He's been doing pretty well lately. I am also sure Melky will rebound at least some.

 

 

Actually LaRoche is having a pretty normal year for him. His average is down about 20+ points but as you indicate he has been slowly raising it. He is a career 20 HR-70 RBI guy and he is not far off that pace, His doubles are way down and his BB are way up.

[Eminor3rd]

If Williams and Hahn are teflon, could they at least get rid of some scouts / advisors? Whoever thought that giving Melky Cabrera and Adam Laroche those deals was a good idea needs to be gone. There are teams with far better track records of seeing things that the White Sox obviously don't.

 

Who was the last non-pitcher that they "hit" on? Everybody and their brother was in on Abreu, so I don't include him.

 

LaRoche is performing, at worst, SLIGHTLY below expectations, and that's only because he's traded some homers for walks, which isn't something we would like to see him do. He's sitting on a 117 wRC+ against a career wRC+ of 113.

 

And no scout in the country thought Melky Cabrera would have a 48 wRC+.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Eminor3rd

[kitekrazy]

If Williams and Hahn are teflon, could they at least get rid of some scouts / advisors? Whoever thought that giving Melky Cabrera and Adam Laroche those deals was a good idea needs to be gone. There are teams with far better track records of seeing things that the White Sox obviously don't.

 

Who was the last non-pitcher that they "hit" on? Everybody and their brother was in on Abreu, so I don't include him.

 

They are under the Reinsdorf loyalty program. I never have a problem with their scouting big leaguers, it's the farm system where everyone needs to go. The organization is terrible developing/scouting position players.

 

[BigHurt3515]

All these quotes from the front office are pissing me off. How bout: "we need to play better, plain and simple. We need to try to shake things up" That is it

[LDF]

I think most were very happy with the White Sox acquisitions this past offseason. The team hasn't gelled yet, and maybe never will. But the decisions seemed fairly solid. There isn't a GM in baseball that hasn't made a few mistakes. The thought process here seemed pretty solid. I didn't agree with all of it. I was really against what they gave Duke, and couldn't understand waiting a year for Samardjiza. But if they are trying to win, and not waste Sale and Abreu's prime years, you have to take chances. Some usually don't work out. There still is time for these to work out.

 

i still think this signings except for 1 is Hahn's doing.

 

my question is why hasn't they gelled??? they are vet's and not young players, something is not happening.

[Eminor3rd]

i still think this signings except for 1 is Hahn's doing.

 

my question is why hasn't they gelled??? they are vet's and not young players, something is not happening.

 

10-15 teams ask that question every season.

[LDF]

10-15 teams ask that question every season.

 

ahhh maybe it is a good point.

 

re maybe..... maybe the FO knows the reason.

[The Ginger Kid]

i still think this signings except for 1 is Hahn's doing.

 

my question is why hasn't they gelled??? they are vet's and not young players, something is not happening.

You're making the assumption that there is enough talent to gel on this team, and if so, how much better do you think they should be? 5 or 6 games better?

 

I think w/o the moves Hahn made over the winter this team is blowing away the competition for the #1 pick next season. He's bolstered a really shaky pen, added a couple of bats and one very schizophrenic starter. But I can't look at teams like KC and say, Yep, Sox can beat them. Not consistently, anyway. Sox just don't have the talent.

[southsider2k5]

10-15 teams ask that question every season.

 

And something that no one is talking about... Teams that add more, seem to take longer to gel.

 

[caulfield12]

That's also partly a symptom of the lack of homegrown position players who've already bought into a system coming up together.

 

Trust takes longer to develop in that scenario...in each other, and the manager.

[Balta1701]

And something that no one is talking about... Teams that add more, seem to take longer to gel.

Maybe that's more of an indictment of the philosophy of trying to rebuild through FA and win-now trades than it is an issue with teams gelling.

[Eminor3rd]

Maybe that's more of an indictment of the philosophy of trying to rebuild through FA and win-now trades than it is an issue with teams gelling.

 

Or it's just more of an argument that this was never going to be a one-year turnaround. And I still don't think it is. If the Sox end up 81-81, it's a huge win, IMO. You get a draft pick for Samardzija, keep everyone else, and you enter the offseason needing to add 4-6 more wins to be a playoff team.

[LDF]

You're making the assumption that there is enough talent to gel on this team, and if so, how much better do you think they should be? 5 or 6 games better?

 

I think w/o the moves Hahn made over the winter this team is blowing away the competition for the #1 pick next season. He's bolstered a really shaky pen, added a couple of bats and one very schizophrenic starter. But I can't look at teams like KC and say, Yep, Sox can beat them. Not consistently, anyway. Sox just don't have the talent.

re pen, and yet the pen gelled just nicely even with some miscue.

 

why is that. according to all the posted of talent and trust and getting to gel.

[Jerksticks]

I see. So therefore, if I understand this correctly, the decision-making structure and decision-making process in place today is, for all intents and purposes, the same one that was in place before Kenny and Hahn got promoted. The only real difference today is this notion that Hahn does more of the day-to-day chores that Williams used to. But when it comes to:

- setting strategy and direction for the ball club

- deciding on and making player/coach personnel moves

- establishing draft policy, or minor league decisions, or

- making any other major decisions on any other aspects of running this organization

 

It's the same three people including Reinsdorf going through the same process and having the same discussions

the same way they were when these two came together with Hahn's promotion to GM in 2002.

 

Again, despite their collective record of failure as a management team - on our way to the 12th out of 14th season of no postseason play under this "team effort" - who wouldn't like to see a clean slate and get out from under from the Jerry/Kenny/Rick management team right about NOW!

Me. I would not like to see that at all. Every year we have a damn good shot on paper. Somehow this "failure of a management team" turned our last core into a solid new core without a s*** ton of losing & drafting etc- basically did that overnight while you were sleeping like ninjas. f***ing geniuses if you ask me. Everyone needs to quit taking our record personally.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Or it's just more of an argument that this was never going to be a one-year turnaround. And I still don't think it is. If the Sox end up 81-81, it's a huge win, IMO. You get a draft pick for Samardzija, keep everyone else, and you enter the offseason needing to add 4-6 more wins to be a playoff team.

 

 

And you can use the money you were going to spend on Shark on something else. This is an excellent post.

[flavum]

And you can use the money you were going to spend on Shark on something else. This is an excellent post.

 

If the Sox don't make the playoffs, it's still a disappointment. They didn't enter this season with the intention of not making the playoffs.

 

But the difference is, not making moves that will hamstring them for future seasons. They are doing better at not being stupid (that is if Melky starts hitting a little), but in the Sale/Abreu years going forward, a non-playoff season is a bad season.

[LDF]

If the Sox don't make the playoffs, it's still a disappointment. They didn't enter this season with the intention of not making the playoffs.

 

But the difference is, not making moves that will hamstring them for future seasons. They are doing better at not being stupid (that is if Melky starts hitting a little), but in the Sale/Abreu years going forward, a non-playoff season is a bad season.

 

and on top of that, going into the summer, if this team continues to win less than 50%, talk about the fans being disappointed. does anyone think the fans will come to see a game in aug or sept? then compounding that, will be the FO complaining that the fans deserted them.

 

come offseason, does anyone think the fans will then buy season tickets??? if the FO does not make any visible changes to the team with ref to management, does anyone think this team will do a whole lot better?? finally the important part, the team's main core gets another yr older.

[SCCWS]

Or it's just more of an argument that this was never going to be a one-year turnaround. And I still don't think it is. If the Sox end up 81-81, it's a huge win, IMO. You get a draft pick for Samardzija, keep everyone else, and you enter the offseason needing to add 4-6 more wins to be a playoff team.

 

I thought this was a .500 team going in so I am not as upset as some fans. Management has already come out and said they expect to challenge for a playoff spot this year. So I don't see them keeping "everyone else" if they finish at .500 or less. But what happens if this team finishes 4-6 games under .500.. Are you content for 2016 to shoot for .500 and 2017 to challenge???