KW: play is "embarassing" but team can still win ALC

[gatnom]

What seems like a great idea, sometimes doesn't work out that way. If the Sox signed Panda, the 3rd base problem would be considered solved. Last year, Gillaspie had a better OPS, but that had to be an outlier. Gillaspie hasn't been good offensively, but look:

 

Gillaspie OPS .682

Panda OPS .688

 

You would think Panda would get better, but, many here are saying the White Sox hitters are what they are, so why wouldn't that apply to all teams? Panda is a better fielding $100 million Conor Gillaspie.

 

I feel like there's some alternate dimension where you're making this same exact post about Melky Cabrera and Dayan Viciedo right now.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

As bad as we've been and we've been bad from the bad base-running to the bad infield defence to the bad hitting and the bad catchers, the strange thing is that we're only 3 games off .500, 3.5 games off the Wild Card and 7 games off the division lead.

 

This is doable. All it takes is for the players to tighten up, two or three of the hitters to start to find their bat again, a few series wins and we're there.

 

We've already beaten the Astros and the A's on the road, so we see how this team can perform and so far against the terrible AL East, we've only played the Orioles and the Blue Jays on the road.

 

The last couple of season's, it was June that defined our season.

 

Last season we had a series of games where we went 0-3 to the Royals, 1-1 against the Giants, 0-4 to the Twins, 1-2 to the Orioles. 2-10 in the space of 14 days and we never recovered from it. We were treading water around .500 before that happened.

 

The season before last week in May and Early June it was 0-3 to the Cubs, 0-3 to the A's, 1-2 to the Mariners, 2-2 against the A's. 3-10 in the space of 14 days and we never recovered from it. We were treading water around .500 before that happened.

 

This season if we can stay around .500 in June, we can push on after the All-Star break but the fear is that another collapse similar to the last two seasons would kill us.

 

This team has been too tight.

[southsider2k5]

That's about the 15th straight year he he has said that. So far he has been right twice, so I don't think the odds are ever in his favor.

 

No front office will ever say, "yeah, this team sucks" on April 1, or even June 1. If you are looking for that, you will never see it. Even last year the Cubs had Theo in front of camera's talking about competing.

[Dick Allen]

No front office will ever say, "yeah, this team sucks" on April 1, or even June 1. If you are looking for that, you will never see it. Even last year the Cubs had Theo in front of camera's talking about competing.

JR said it once, and was roasted for it. Anyone who thinks this team (3 games back) can catch Cleveland is crazy.

[southsider2k5]

JR said it once, and was roasted for it. Anyone who thinks this team (3 games back) can catch Cleveland is crazy.

 

And still, 20 years later, White Flag is brought up any time the Sox look to sell players.

[caulfield12]

You could also make an argument we went after the wrong Oakland A's player.

 

With Josh Donaldson at 3B, we'd undoubtedly have a better record than what we've accomplished with Samardzija.

Not to mention the fact that the White Sox would control his services for another three years.

 

With the cost savings, they would have had the money to add another veteran starting pitcher to the rotation.

 

 

1 year/$4.3M (2015)

lost in arbitration with Toronto ($5.75M-$4.3M)

 

Can't believe Donaldson lost his arbitration case when he was one of the best players in baseball for 4+ months last season.

Edited June 2, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

No front office will ever say, "yeah, this team sucks" on April 1, or even June 1. If you are looking for that, you will never see it. Even last year the Cubs had Theo in front of camera's talking about competing.

 

the point is, why make any announcement. was this suppose to be a supportive msg, was this suppose to be "don't loose faith" msg...

 

why make this announcement.

[LDF]

You could also make an argument we went after the wrong Oakland A's player.

 

With Josh Donaldson at 3B, we'd undoubtedly have a better record than what we've accomplished with Samardzija.

Not to mention the fact that the White Sox would control his services for another three years.

 

With the cost savings, they would have had the money to add another veteran starting pitcher to the rotation.

 

 

1 year/$4.3M (2015)

lost in arbitration with Toronto ($5.75M-$4.3M)

 

Can't believe Donaldson lost his arbitration case when he was one of the best players in baseball for 4+ months last season.

 

the cost may be even more costly.

[Dick Allen]

the point is, why make any announcement. was this suppose to be a supportive msg, was this suppose to be "don't loose faith" msg...

 

why make this announcement.

There is no announcement. It was an interview. He basically said the exact same things a couple of weeks ago. I really don't understand why this is a big deal at all. He can't point fingers at the players, which is EXACTLY WHAT SO MANY PEOPLE WANT ROBIN TO DO IN THE DUGOUT, and that is wrong. Everything they do or say will be considered wrong because when it comes to running a team the vast majority of fans are not very good at it. Thibs gets fired and boy did he deserve it. They practice hard, they play 32 minutes a night, he is going to kill them. Robin should be fired. Look at what they did. It is obvious they didn't practice hard enough in spring training. KW is holding the players accountable. I am no big fan of KW. It wouldn't bother me if he took his act to Toronto. But here, I agree. They players haven't played up to the levels they previously played. That's on them.

[LDF]

There is no announcement. It was an interview. He basically said the exact same things a couple of weeks ago. I really don't understand why this is a big deal at all. He can't point fingers at the players, which is EXACTLY WHAT SO MANY PEOPLE WANT ROBIN TO DO IN THE DUGOUT, and that is wrong. Everything they do or say will be considered wrong because when it comes to running a team the vast majority of fans are not very good at it. Thibs gets fired and boy did he deserve it. They practice hard, they play 32 minutes a night, he is going to kill them. Robin should be fired. Look at what they did. It is obvious they didn't practice hard enough in spring training. KW is holding the players accountable. I am no big fan of KW. It wouldn't bother me if he took his act to Toronto. But here, I agree. They players haven't played up to the levels they previously played. That's on them.

 

while you make a good point, i feel as management should not throw the players under the bus. b/c it might not be the whole problem.

 

i just think they should have taken the high road or better yet, don't say anything.

[Dick Allen]

while you make a good point, i feel as management should not throw the players under the bus. b/c it might not be the whole problem.

 

i just think they should have taken the high road or better yet, don't say anything.

Yet, Robin, and he is management by definition, would be considered doing a better job if he constantly threw players under the bus. Robin says nothing publicly, does all his critiquing behind the clubhouse door, and gets ripped for it. Even though it's been out there for years, it's ignored. He doesn't have a pulse, the players walk all over him. So if he gets into someone's face, then it will be why did he throw someone under a bus?

[LDF]

Yet, Robin, and he is management by definition, would be considered doing a better job if he constantly threw players under the bus. Robin says nothing publicly, does all his critiquing behind the clubhouse door, and gets ripped for it. Even though it's been out there for years, it's ignored. He doesn't have a pulse, the players walk all over him. So if he gets into someone's face, then it will be why did he throw someone under a bus?

let him show, what you said a pulse, by the performance of the team, during the course of a game.

 

not giving lip service.

 

btw, i stay as far away of bringing in RV into this conversation, b/c i was pointing out kw and the fo.

[Dick Allen]

let him show, what you said a pulse, by the performance of the team, during the course of a game.

 

not giving lip service.

 

btw, i stay as far away of bringing in RV into this conversation, b/c i was pointing out kw and the fo.

You brought Robin into this thread:

 

 

 

just to come out and give, what i consider a fair waring to the players in a sense, is laying all the blame on their shoulders.

 

how bout some, so - so calls that the manager did, which added to this season so far. where is RV accountability in this mess. no one is going to tell me, none of this is not RV fault and he is blameless.

 

after reading this, he is completely blaming the players. how bout not fully addressing the holes on this team, yeah i forgot, it is the players fault.

[LittleHurt05]

No front office will ever say, "yeah, this team sucks" on April 1, or even June 1. If you are looking for that, you will never see it. Even last year the Cubs had Theo in front of camera's talking about competing.

 

Sure, I understand that. Just frustration that year after year it's the players' fault while KW is now in year 15 with a whopping two division titles to show for it.

[southsider2k5]

the point is, why make any announcement. was this suppose to be a supportive msg, was this suppose to be "don't loose faith" msg...

 

why make this announcement.

 

Because reporters ask questions. It is what they get paid for.

[LDF]

You brought Robin into this thread:

 

 

 

just to come out and give, what i consider a fair waring to the players in a sense, is laying all the blame on their shoulders.

 

how bout some, so - so calls that the manager did, which added to this season so far. where is RV accountability in this mess. no one is going to tell me, none of this is not RV fault and he is blameless.

 

after reading this, he is completely blaming the players. how bout not fully addressing the holes on this team, yeah i forgot, it is the players fault.

 

and in that, i am admitting of KW of coming out to give this warning or opinion. i think it wasn't called for.

 

yeah i insinuated the manager, but i am arguing about putting the blame on only 1 part.

 

yeah i am aware i have a problem with sox management, but i will address it to where i think is called fot.

[LDF]

Because reporters ask questions. It is what they get paid for.

 

and a No Comment! works really nice.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

and a No Comment! works really nice.

 

And then everyone would complain that he is either dodging the media, or lifeless.

[LDF]

And then everyone would complain that he is either dodging the media, or lifeless.

 

i really do not want this to sound bad.

 

but who cares what they, the press wants or thinks.

[southsider2k5]

i really do not want this to sound bad.

 

but who cares what they, the press wants or thinks.

 

Obviously you do, or you wouldn't be talking about it.

[southsider2k5]

It's not correct to assume we could have had Donaldson for the price of Samardzija. I am not sure whether you're suggesting that or not but it's really a cost benefit analysis. Alex Anthopoulos (AA) called Billy Beane and inquired about Donaldson and was told he wasn't on the market. They were talking about another player, when AA again brought up Donaldson and only then did they work out a framework for Donaldson. No teams knew Donaldson was on the market according to what the media has reported.

 

Franklin Barreto - Who knows how the A's/Jays valued Barreto but Anderson is probably valued a little bit higher.

 

Brett Lawrie - Lawrie is a plus defender on his rookie contract for three years. If the Sox had someone comparable, they would value him too much to move. He was very likely a key to this deal for Beane. Getting cheaper with in imitation player who has untapped potential. Sox had nothing to offer like Lawrie.

 

Kendall Graveman - MLB ready, almost dominant at every level and pitched 170+ innings in 2014. He was a step below a Daniel Hudson type prospect - again something we couldn't emulate.

 

Sean Nolin - Very effective lefthander who is just about ML ready. Cracked the top 100 prospect list in 2013. We have nothing like that.

 

Not that the Sox even had a chance to make an offer, what would you expect them to put together that would beat the Jays' package? It would probably be something like Anderson, Garcia, Danish and Jace Fry (PTBNL). I don't know if Billy Beane would take that but I know the Sox would be taking a big risk. So if you're going to state the obvious and say you'd rather have Donaldson than Samardzija, I will counter with I would rather have Anderson/Garcia/Danish/Fry than Semien/Bassit/Phegley/Ravelo.

 

Takes me back to the Sergio Santos stuff.

 

[LDF]

Obviously you do, or you wouldn't be talking about it.

 

hahaha..... nice.

 

but my point is no one outside the sox diehard's can criticize the sox..... except us.

 

stupid way of thinking. yeah..... but that is the best i can describe it.

 

[winninguglyin83]

Don't think this is anything more calculating than Williams letting off steam, verbalizing what most fans are feeling.

 

My guess is they are greatly surprised that LaRoche and Cabrera have not been better.

 

Other than Avi, not one guy has performed at or above expectations on offense.

[southsider2k5]

Don't think this is anything more calculating than Williams letting off steam, verbalizing what most fans are feeling.

 

My guess is they are greatly surprised that LaRoche and Cabrera have not been better.

 

Other than Avi, not one guy has performed at or above expectations on offense.

 

I feel like this hasn't been said enough.

[LDF]

Obviously you do, or you wouldn't be talking about it.

i am at work so my response may come and go as this day finishes.

 

but the other point i wanted to add is, for me and than maybe it is me, you don't throw your own people under the bus, or hang them out to dry. what happen to meetings behind close doors.

 

this was just a bad move on the bosses of the org.