greg775 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 05:43 PM) Honestly, I wanted nothing to do with Samardzija even before the trade so,yes, I would have the same opinion. I didn't like giving up prospects for a one year of a pitcher that has consistently said he will test the FA market after the 2015 season. Would have preferred those prospects used on a pitcher that came with more years of control. In fact, I remember saying that when the thread was made last November. Another thing I didn't like was the idea of a multi year contract to a pitcher that will be 31 by the start of ST 2016. To me, none of it added up to being the right move. That's why it'd be nice to right a wrong and get 2-3 prospects back for him ... now. Trade him to some contender that needs a starter. Would the Twins take him? The Royals? I want Colon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 10:47 PM) That's why it'd be nice to right a wrong and get 2-3 prospects back for him ... now. Trade him to some contender that needs a starter. Would the Twins take him? The Royals? I want Colon. Colon is a utility player. Why would the Sox want him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 06:47 PM) That's why it'd be nice to right a wrong and get 2-3 prospects back for him ... now. Trade him to some contender that needs a starter. Would the Twins take him? The Royals? I want Colon. I don't know why a contending team would give up 2-3 prospects for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy esposito Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 06:40 PM) I don't know why a contending team would give up 2-3 prospects for him. Shark may have loads of talent but so far this season he has not demonstrated this talent well enough to enthuse potential trade partners. we are stuck with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 12:28 PM) I responded to this and didn't even notice the green font. haha my bad. They aren't rebuilding though, man. They will try to compete next year. They won't be trading any of those guys. I would be stunned if they traded Melky, LaRoche, Duke, or Robertson as well. Just doesn't really make sense. They want to compete; not rebuild. What happens if they fail to compete this year w these players???? If this team finishes 5-10 games below .500 do you really think Hahn will bring them all back again??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2015 -> 12:40 AM) I don't know why a contending team would give up 2-3 prospects for him. no way 3 prospects, may a 1 solid and 1 a high teen top 20, and that is if that trade was done sometime before the ASG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 08:21 PM) no way 3 prospects, may a 1 solid and 1 a high teen top 20, and that is if that trade was done sometime before the ASG Just to note - Samardzija is performing significantly worse than Edwin Jackson was when he was traded. The return in the Edwin Jackson deal was "someone absorbed Teahen's contract", Jason Frasor, and Zach Stewart. The Blue Jays then got the "Cardinals desperate to move him" Colby Rasmus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2015 -> 12:25 AM) Just to note - Samardzija is performing significantly worse than Edwin Jackson was when he was traded. The return in the Edwin Jackson deal was "someone absorbed Teahen's contract", Jason Frasor, and Zach Stewart. The Blue Jays then got the "Cardinals desperate to move him" Colby Rasmus. as far as i know the sox are not desperate to move him, or no rumors to trade him either. that is the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 05:47 PM) That's why it'd be nice to right a wrong and get 2-3 prospects back for him ... now. Trade him to some contender that needs a starter. Would the Twins take him? The Royals? I want Colon. If you were a GM looking for a starter, what prospects would you give up for a three month rental and a 4.93 ERA? I'm sorry but I just do not see the value in Samardzija. At this point, all he's good for is eating innings, otherwise he's pitching like Danks. QUOTE (sammy esposito @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 07:06 PM) Shark may have loads of talent but so far this season he has not demonstrated this talent well enough to enthuse potential trade partners. we are stuck with him. This sums it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 08:34 PM) If you were a GM looking for a starter, what prospects would you give up for a three month rental and a 4.93 ERA? I'm sorry but I just do not see the value in Samardzija. At this point, all he's good for is eating innings, otherwise he's pitching like Danks. Why do I feel like I've seen a GM debate what to give up for a player with an ERA of 5 in the last couple years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 07:25 PM) Just to note - Samardzija is performing significantly worse than Edwin Jackson was when he was traded. The return in the Edwin Jackson deal was "someone absorbed Teahen's contract", Jason Frasor, and Zach Stewart. The Blue Jays then got the "Cardinals desperate to move him" Colby Rasmus. But he's performing significantly better than when the Sox traded FOR Jackson; the Sox gave up their 2 top pitching prospects for Jackson. Sox under Williams didn't exactly cut value-laden deals. I just want some hitters in here; don't care what position really except we don't need 1B. Edited June 9, 2015 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 08:38 PM) But he's performing significantly better than when the Sox traded FOR Jackson; the Sox gave up their 2 top pitching prospects for Jackson. Sox under Williams didn't exactly cut value-laden deals. But... 1. That was still an idiotic move, and more importantly 2. Jackson had 1.5 years before FA at the time and that was on the last collective bargaining agreement so that even if he were only a "Type B" free agent he would have earned draft pick compensation whereas Samardzija will bring none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 07:35 PM) Why do I feel like I've seen a GM debate what to give up for a player with an ERA of 5 in the last couple years? Its groundhog day! The Sox took their wisdom from the Swisher trade and married it with their wisdom of the Jackson to AZ trade and thus we have Samardzija. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 07:40 PM) But... 1. That was still an idiotic move, and more importantly 2. Jackson had 1.5 years before FA at the time and that was on the last collective bargaining agreement so that even if he were only a "Type B" free agent he would have earned draft pick compensation whereas Samardzija will bring none. 1- dear god yes it was! 2- that's the concern I have with Samardzija. No compensation at all for Samardzija would turn that trade from a bust to a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 07:38 PM) But he's performing significantly better than when the Sox traded FOR Jackson; the Sox gave up their 2 top pitching prospects for Jackson. Sox under Williams didn't exactly cut value-laden deals. I just want some hitters in here; don't care what position really except we don't need 1B. We will in 2018 when Abreu opts out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (oldsox @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 09:08 PM) We will in 2018 when Abreu opts out. That's not how it works. If Abreu opts out at any point the White Sox still have the right to offer him arbitration, he does not become a free agent. We have him under control through the end of 2019 barring a contract extension. The only way that could change is if the White Sox chose to non-tender him rather than offering him arbitration if he opted out (basically that would be he opts out then physically destroys something the next year). Furthermore, if he continues hitting like this he may well not opt out in order to maintain the protection of the contract against injury since he's not massively outperforming his contract to the extent he did last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 With Cueto and Hamels (and probably Kazmir ) available, Shark probably won't be worth a whole lot no matter how he pitches. Probably to the point where they are better off offering the qualifying offer and him getting at least innings eater money on the open market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) This thread has a hole lot of stupid in it. Short of injury, there is a 0% chance we don't get a compensation pick for Shark if he leaves in the offseason. Second, he will not be a "5 ERA pitcher" by the end of the season. The guy's FIP is nearly a run lower than his ERA. On top of that, he's clearly performed below his talent level. The odds are incredibly high Shark will pitch significantly better over the remainder of the season. Last but not least, GMs aren't going to pass on a player simply because his stats are bad at that point in time. Teams will do their due diligence by scouting the player and project what he will have to offer going forward. If he's pitching well come July, teams won't care that he sucked in April & May. Furthermore, the supply of quality starting pitching will greatly impact his value to teams. Way too early to know with any level of certainty who will be available come late July or what they might cost. Edited June 9, 2015 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 08:37 PM) This thread has a hole lot of stupid in it. Short of injury, there is a 0% chance we don't get a compensation pick for Shark if he leaves in the offseason. Second, he will not be a "5 ERA pitcher" by the end of the season. The guy's FIP is nearly a run lower than his ERA. On top of that, he's clearly performed below his talent level. The odds are incredibly high Shark will pitch significantly better over the remainder of the season. Last but not least, GMs aren't going to pass on a player simply because his stats are bad at that point in time. Teams will do their due diligence by scouting the player and project what he will have to offer going forward. If he's pitching well come July, teams won't care that he sucked in April & May. Furthermore, the supply of quality starting pitching will greatly impact his value to teams. Way too early to know with any level of certainty who will be available come late July or what they might cost. You can never say 0%, but it's probably more like 3-5%. One of those obvious reasons would be an injury. Another would be the White Sox financial situation heading into next season, along with the unknown development of all their minor league pitchers (Beck, Johnson, Montas, Danish and Fulmer) over the next 3-4 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Trade Shark, Melky Cabrera and Danks to the Angels for Mike Trout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 07:40 PM) But... 1. That was still an idiotic move, and more importantly 2. Jackson had 1.5 years before FA at the time and that was on the last collective bargaining agreement so that even if he were only a "Type B" free agent he would have earned draft pick compensation whereas Samardzija will bring none. Samardzija has a good chance of bringing a comp pick and a more valuable one that Type B was. Sure it was an idiotic move...Sox make a lot of those. The trade to dump Jackson was poor as well. Basically did a favor to Toronto. But other teams make them as well...let them make one with us. i'm thinking they need to move another pitcher as well. They keep passing on college hitters to draft these pitchers, well you have to get your hitters from somewhere. And KW fav declining 30 year olds and utility talent isn't working. Edited June 9, 2015 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 9, 2015 -> 04:22 AM) Samardzija has a good chance of bringing a comp pick and a more valuable one that Type B was. Sure it was an idiotic move...Sox make a lot of those. The trade to dump Jackson was poor as well. Basically did a favor to Toronto. But other teams make them as well...let them make one with us. i'm thinking they need to move another pitcher as well. They keep passing on college hitters to draft these pitchers, well you have to get your hitters from somewhere. And KW fav declining 30 year olds and utility talent isn't working. nice, i really have no clue how the sox will address the lack of hitters, esp if they can't do it via FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 11:27 PM) nice, i really have no clue how the sox will address the lack of hitters, esp if they can't do it via FA. The FA hitters are expensive and the bust rate is high. Chu and Ellsbury got outrageous contracts. Who's the big dog this year? Heyward (not a particularly good hitter) and Upton (a very good hitter) Both will have crazy prices. Edited June 9, 2015 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 9, 2015 -> 06:10 AM) The FA hitters are expensive and the bust rate is high. Chu and Ellsbury got outrageous contracts. Who's the big dog this year? Heyward (not a particularly good hitter) and Upton (a very good hitter) Both will have crazy prices. and that is my point, the sox will have to find ways to address the lack of hitters in the system. also remember the hitter we do have, have a limited contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 9, 2015 -> 12:10 AM) The FA hitters are expensive and the bust rate is high. Chu and Ellsbury got outrageous contracts. Who's the big dog this year? Heyward (not a particularly good hitter) and Upton (a very good hitter) Both will have crazy prices. Heyward is still a very good player, the best defensive OF in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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