Samardzija Trade Packages

[Baron]

Of course Rick has input but again by his own words Kenny has to approve everything which means by the nature of the structure that if Kenny wants a trade or a signing he has the power to tell Hahn to get it done.

 

and if he has actually done any of that has not been proven. So the talk that Kenny is somehow impeding his progress is complete speculation.

[southsider2k5]

Kenny is soxtalk's boogeyman

 

I don't get the need to try to make Rick Hahn into some sort of oppressed soul in the White Sox organization. I've said it before and will say it again. If Rick Hahn wasn't on board with what was going on here he is the dumbest SOB in baseball for not understanding the hierarchy of a team he has worked for a decade plus.

[Lip Man 1]

and if he has actually done any of that has not been proven. So the talk that Kenny is somehow impeding his progress is complete speculation.

 

Absolutely no argument on that point. I'd simply like to see Rick have the same situation that Kenny did when he was G.M. and remove all doubt and end the speculation.

 

Personally I hope Kenny gets permission to move on to another organization this off season.

 

Mark

 

[GreenSox]

I don't know who's responsible for what.

But I haven't seen the philosophical change in team building in this org. that I hoped would happen.

I guess it's that I hoped that Hahn would have a different philosophy than that which has failed miserably for the last 6 years. And because the philosophy is the same, I assume Williams is still running the show, when that may or may not be true.

[Baron]

I don't know who's responsible for what.

But I haven't seen the philosophical change in team building in this org. that I hoped would happen.

I guess it's that I hoped that Hahn would have a different philosophy than that which has failed miserably for the last 6 years. And because the philosophy is the same, I assume Williams is still running the show, when that may or may not be true.

 

Hasnt it been already established that Rick Hahn was trained by the guys currently above him in the front office? Why would you expect a radically different philosophy when that first fact is available? It makes zero sense.

[Lip Man 1]

Hasnt it been already established that Rick Hahn was trained by the guys currently above him in the front office? Why would you expect a radically different philosophy when that first fact is available? It makes zero sense.

 

Not saying this is good or bad but Hahn appears to be more sabermetrics orientated then Kenny. And he seems to be much more patient and willing to trust the "process" or "plan" then Kenny. Just my opinion.

 

Mark

 

 

[Baron]

Not saying this is good or bad but Hahn appears to be more sabermetrics orientated then Kenny. And he seems to be much more patient and willing to trust the "process" or "plan" then Kenny. Just my opinion.

 

Mark

 

If this team he put together is sabermetrics oriented then he needs to go visit Bill James for a lesson. It's a disgrace to sabermetrics.

[GreenSox]

Not saying this is good or bad but Hahn appears to be more sabermetrics orientated then Kenny. And he seems to be much more patient and willing to trust the "process" or "plan" then Kenny. Just my opinion.

 

Mark

Yes, he was reputed to be, but I certainly haven't seen much of that.

I guess it was unreasonable to expect a radical change, but I did expect to see some changes. He deals with same teams Williams did. Hitting coach from Oakland. Invest in utility infielders and past their prime veterans. Extend the insider manager (who doesn't know a thing about sabremetrics) off of a 99 loss season, instead of bringing in his own manager. There has been virtually no change.

Maybe we'll see some this trading season....some selling high, for example, but I doubt it.

Edited July 20, 2015 by GreenSox

[Lip Man 1]

Yes, he was reputed to be, but I certainly haven't seen much of that.

I guess it was unreasonable to expect a radical change, but I did expect to see some changes. He deals with same teams Williams did. Hitting coach from Oakland. Invest in utility infielders and past their prime veterans. Extend the insider manager (who doesn't know a thing about sabremetrics) off of a 99 loss season, instead of bringing in his own manager. There has been virtually no change.

Maybe we'll see some this trading season....some selling high, for example, but I doubt it.

 

Green:

 

Valid points to be sure but again to continue a discussion we simply don't know how much power Hahn has, if his moves were vetoed by Kenny, if he was 'forced' (for wont of a better word) to make certain moves because of Kenny (as I discussed the off season appeared to be radically different from the plan Hahn was following.) We simply don't know what is really going on. With that in mind it's hard to make a judgment. And also history shows JR is a very "hands-on" owner for better or worse.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Mark

Edited July 20, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Hahn's gotten a free pass for a terrible offseason (in terms of results on the field). He needs to win a few of these big trades going forward, as so far he doesn't have a lot to show at the big league level besides Eaton/Avi.

 

There's the Abreu signing and the contracts with Sale and Quintana . The pen acquisitions are solid . LaRoche was a reach . Hahns strength is with contracts . Too many chefs in the kitchen on trades.

[caulfield12]

Has Hahn ever actually been the "lead" guy in identifying a talent and bringing him in?

 

Like KW, when he watched Iguchi's videos from Japan and signed him, sight unseen.

 

 

[maggsmaggs]

How do all the Hahn fans know he is capable of making the correct moves? This past offseason, all he got was praise, and when those moves didn't work out, it is all KW. If Hahn has been KW's assistant for 10 years before becoming his alleged puppet, what is there to suggest he actually know what he is doing?

 

I guess what I don't understsnd is The notion that KW and JR have no clue, but for some reason their underling, the guy with ZERO baseball expereince before being trained by them has this vision of excellence that needs to ne followed. My point is if you think JR and KW are beyonf their expiration date, tthere is no logical reason you should not think the same of Hahn.

 

Hahn was on The Score on Friday and said KW was his boss, which is true. However, the way he talked about their relationship insinuated, to me at least, that KW has a lot more say in building the ballclub than we were led to believe when each received new titles.

 

The moves definitely have looked bad this year, but I think KW is still way too involved in building the ballclub.

 

Hahn is a sabermetric guy who I assume understands the need to building from within for cost reasons. But in the end, I suppose we are all hoping Hahn is more like Theo Epstein than AJ Preller. The jury is still out.

Edited July 20, 2015 by maggsmaggs

[caulfield12]

Kenny is soxtalk's boogeyman

 

If Rick Hahn was from Mexico, someone would be protesting him, too...

[SCCWS]

Thanks! Good read. Exciting that we can flip him for more than we gave up to get him.

 

Agree good read. I think he over-values a 2 month renta. The Blue Jay trade has them giving their #2 , 9 and 10th prospects. If Toronto could sign Shark i would agree that sounds realistic. My prediction is some team's 3-5 and 15-20 and I assume that is a team with a good group of prospects like Toronto.

 

[bmags]

Agree good read. I think he over-values a 2 month renta. The Blue Jay trade has them giving their #2 , 9 and 10th prospects. If Toronto could sign Shark i would agree that sounds realistic. My prediction is some team's 3-5 and 15-20 and I assume that is a team with a good group of prospects like Toronto.

To be fair the sox also give up Putnam who has been pretty dominant in the pen.

[LDF]

To be fair the sox also give up Putnam who has been pretty dominant in the pen.

 

but teams like tor, hou in the AL league, when was the last time they made the playoff. for me, i think it is to show fans, season ticket holders that they are for real and look at the over all play of the other teams. just maybe, they feel that if they make the playoff, they can have a special run.

 

i am sure, some team would pay the devil to make that happen.

[southsider2k5]

Green:

 

Valid points to be sure but again to continue a discussion we simply don't know how much power Hahn has, if his moves were vetoed by Kenny, if he was 'forced' (for wont of a better word) to make certain moves because of Kenny (as I discussed the off season appeared to be radically different from the plan Hahn was following.) We simply don't know what is really going on. With that in mind it's hard to make a judgment. And also history shows JR is a very "hands-on" owner for better or worse.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Mark

 

Rick Hahn worked for the White Sox for a long time before taking the GM role. If he couldn't figure out how involved Kenny would be on a day to day basis before that point, the man is an idiot.

[LDF]

Rick Hahn worked for the White Sox for a long time before taking the GM role. If he couldn't figure out how involved Kenny would be on a day to day basis before that point, the man is an idiot.

 

yeah that is soooo true. great point....

 

i really wonder how that division of work is done in the sox FO

[GreenSox]

Rick Hahn worked for the White Sox for a long time before taking the GM role. If he couldn't figure out how involved Kenny would be on a day to day basis before that point, the man is an idiot.

That may be, but the Kenny load up with veterans approach doesn't work. They need to change and it looked like they were until December when they completely veered and went into "go for it" mode, brought back the vets and to heck with developing young players.

Edited July 20, 2015 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

That may be, but the Kenny load up with veterans approach doesn't work. They need to change and it looked like they were until December when they completely veered and went into "go for it" mode, brought back the vets and to heck with developing young players.

 

The problem is what young players in Charlotte/Birmingham merited playing time at the big league level...?

 

You would have had Trayce Thompson in LF or Shuck, maybe Erik Johnson or Beck in the rotation, Saladino/Leury instead of Beckham and Bonifacio...Kevan Smith instead of Soto, etc.

[LDF]

The problem is what young players in Charlotte/Birmingham merited playing time at the big league level...?

 

You would have had Trayce Thompson in LF or Shuck, maybe Erik Johnson or Beck in the rotation, Saladino/Leury instead of Beckham and Bonifacio...Kevan Smith instead of Soto, etc.

 

don't get me wrong, you do make a point in what you are saying,

 

but i am of the opinion that Hahn would have been able to make some trades. trades that might have address those needs.

 

i don't know, all this is an assumption and i am very guilty of that. who would really know what was and is going on in the sox fo, esp now with how things are being manage.

[caulfield12]

don't get me wrong, you do make a point in what you are saying,

 

but i am of the opinion that Hahn would have been able to make some trades. trades that might have address those needs.

 

i don't know, all this is an assumption and i am very guilty of that. who would really know what was and is going on in the sox fo, esp now with how things are being manage.

 

The problem there is they still would have ended up trading for veterans (since the youngsters were still 1-2 seasons away) and/or been forced to deal Quintana and Montas.

 

Unless they signed Morales, Volquez/Brett Anderson/Chris Young and Nelson Cruz, they'd still be far underwater this year. Or traded for Josh Donaldson.

Edited July 20, 2015 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

The problem is what young players in Charlotte/Birmingham merited playing time at the big league level...?

 

You would have had Trayce Thompson in LF or Shuck, maybe Erik Johnson or Beck in the rotation, Saladino/Leury instead of Beckham and Bonifacio...Kevan Smith instead of Soto, etc.

It's not that so much. Look at Rodon. Why is he in the major leagues when he doesn't have his command? Because he is better without command than Hector Noesi. (and I think here was a little Williams/Hahn machismo involved). So instead of preserving service time until he gets his command and learns the 3rd pitch, they are using service time years for a non-ace performance. Better than Noesi is playing for today.

 

Now, from this point when the season is lost, some guys from Charlotte absolutely need to come up. Erik Johnson has got to be #1 on the list.

Edited July 20, 2015 by GreenSox

[LDF]

The problem there is they still would have ended up trading for veterans (since the youngsters were still 1-2 seasons away) and/or been forced to deal Quintana and Montas.

 

Unless they signed Morales, Volquez/Brett Anderson/Chris Young and Nelson Cruz, they'd still be far underwater this year. Or traded for Josh Donaldson.

 

i totally disagree with your assessment for only 1 reason. we as fans would not know what would have been different had the sox not stop dealing.

 

now coming back to it some 6-7 months later, no know knows what was left on the table.

 

so i see this org having to start brand new in any dealing. can't look back on the what if.

[BigFinn]

To be fair the sox also give up Putnam who has been pretty dominant in the pen.

I think the Sox could sweeten the pot by adding Adam LaRoche and cash. Right now, Toronto's 1B is Justin Smoak. If the Sox pick up some of the tab on the Adam LaRoche contract, I think the Blue Jays might bite, thinking that LaRoche is due to "play to the back of his baseball card."