Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 If anyone thought KW didn't have a say or be mostly in charge is in denial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 http://nypost.com/2015/07/27/al-contenders...-reach-88-wins/ https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/625912986155229184 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 We're not moving Shark if we keep winning, we're adding a bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 At this point, I'm not moving Shark unless I get a solid return. Looking up at the standings, with our staff, I don't know how you bow out of this race. Now if you can move Shark to Toronto for a bat, that could be interesting. But you do so realizing you are fortifying one of your main competitors down the stretch. Question is, if they are going to move on an SP anyways, it may be wise to improve your own chances in the process. I dunno...I think I'd prefer to go with this staff and a lesser hitting club than trying to tinker with the staff to get a bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 BTW, Bucket's info lends some credence to the initial tweet from Crasnick last week after the Kazmir trade that we were all up in arms about in re: the Sox FO not being prepared to make a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Buckets info was a bombshell. Not sure what to think anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 08:02 AM) Now if you can move Shark to Toronto for a bat, that could be interesting. But you do so realizing you are fortifying one of your main competitors down the stretch. Question is, if they are going to move on an SP anyways, it may be wise to improve your own chances in the process. Except the Sox could do it with a different team. On the other hand, by fortifying toronto, that helps them beat the Twins, Orioles and Rays. I guess the Sox may get a bat...if so, I hope it's for Shark and not for the usual KW price. Edited July 28, 2015 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 08:16 AM) Buckets info was a bombshell. Not sure what to think anymore. Hard to have a healthy organization without a healthy front office. Writing has been on the wall all season, if people didn't know there was tension after what Kenny said a couple weeks ago, they certainly know now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 06:18 AM) Except the Sox could do it with a different team. On the other hand, by fortifying toronto, that helps them beat the Twins, Orioles and Rays. I guess the Sox may get a bat...if so, I hope it's for Shark and not for the usual KW price. Right, but Toronto has a LOT of bats...and if they are going to get their pitcher either way, well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hahn knew what he was getting into, and had plenty of opportunities to leave. It still is mind boggling every White Sox decision that is deemed wrong is KW, and so many think Hahn will always do the right thing. The fact is this particular "inside" informer is to be taken with a huge grain of salt. He never had a signing or trade correct this winter, and had plenty of wrong information. Just remember when blaming everything on KW, when Keppinger was released with 2 years left on his contract, Hahn said that signing was on him. I do know KW overruled Hahn in the Peavy trade when Hahn wanted Middlebrooks before Avi was added. Now, Avi has his warts, but you would have to think he is worth a bit more than Middlebrooks. People are basing KW knows nothing and Hahn knows everything on fantasy not reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 06:35 AM) Hahn knew what he was getting into, and had plenty of opportunities to leave. It still is mind boggling every White Sox decision that is deemed wrong is KW, and so many think Hahn will always do the right thing. The fact is this particular "inside" informer is to be taken with a huge grain of salt. He never had a signing or trade correct this winter, and had plenty of wrong information. Just remember when blaming everything on KW, when Keppinger was released with 2 years left on his contract, Hahn said that signing was on him. I do know KW overruled Hahn in the Peavy trade when Hahn wanted Middlebrooks before Avi was added. Now, Avi has his warts, but you would have to think he is worth a bit more than Middlebrooks. People are basing KW knows nothing and Hahn knows everything on fantasy not reality. I honestly like the dynamic. Rick works as sort of the angel on Kenny's shoulder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 07:35 AM) Hahn knew what he was getting into, and had plenty of opportunities to leave. It still is mind boggling every White Sox decision that is deemed wrong is KW, and so many think Hahn will always do the right thing. The fact is this particular "inside" informer is to be taken with a huge grain of salt. He never had a signing or trade correct this winter, and had plenty of wrong information. Just remember when blaming everything on KW, when Keppinger was released with 2 years left on his contract, Hahn said that signing was on him. I do know KW overruled Hahn in the Peavy trade when Hahn wanted Middlebrooks before Avi was added. Now, Avi has his warts, but you would have to think he is worth a bit more than Middlebrooks. People are basing KW knows nothing and Hahn knows everything on fantasy not reality. KW is no idiot. I'm not giving Hahn a pass. But this isn't totally on Hahn. He has to have KW watching over things. Kenny helped engineer a World Series for the first time in 88 years. That means something to me. I have some issues with him but don't hate the guy. I love that KW will take risks and go for it because at least we're not a team that's scared to go for it. I do hope though if he does it this week, it's right and by that I mean try and get Puig without destroying things. Or even CarGo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hoffman being in Tulo deal is a bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 08:42 AM) I honestly like the dynamic. Rick works as sort of the angel on Kenny's shoulder I'll buy that. Disagreement is not always a bad thing. If KW,RH,and JR are the 3 headed decision making monster, hopefully they don't just take a majority vote. I would think things are discussed and when decisions are made, it is done with everyone on board. If not, then Hahn needs to leave. If he is nothing but a willing puppet as some seem to suggest, why would that be the type of individual anyone would want making important decisions regarding their team? Hahn has a lot of clout, and I am sure he has changed KW's opinion several times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 08:44 AM) KW is no idiot. I'm not giving Hahn a pass. But this isn't totally on Hahn. He has to have KW watching over things. Kenny helped engineer a World Series for the first time in 88 years. That means something to me. I have some issues with him but don't hate the guy. I love that KW will take risks and go for it because at least we're not a team that's scared to go for it. I do hope though if he does it this week, it's right and by that I mean try and get Puig without destroying things. Or even CarGo. And KW has had to have JR watching over things. Every GM has someone watching over them. The fact is, this "going for it" this season was a JR decision. Total JR decision. So who says the KW "decisions" through the years were all his? JR is 78 or 79 years old. He isn't going for a 4 or 5 year rebuild. Edited July 28, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I don't think people give Hahn a pass, but we had 13 years of watching Kenny operate largely independently, and 3 years now of Hahn...where we don't really know. So when we look at the moves, there are moves that feel like KW moves. And the worst flaw of KW was shortsightedness...and losing out on a potential dynamite arm (but we don't know) of Hoffman for 6 years in exchange for going for it when still under 500 at the end of July just seems like KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 08:35 AM) Hahn knew what he was getting into, and had plenty of opportunities to leave. It still is mind boggling every White Sox decision that is deemed wrong is KW, and so many think Hahn will always do the right thing. Nothing mind-boggling about it. As GM, Kenny Williams has a long history of poor value trades, poor evaluation of even veteran players, and a decade of poor drafts. But most of all, there was never a consistent plan. Overapy for a vet - then give him away.No consistency. And it was when the flows from the 1988-2000 drafts expired, he had no more prospects to trade for veterans, and the losing records began to accumulate. The 2013 winter looked nothing like what Kenny Williams had done in his tenure...thus credit or blame to Hahn, however you see it. 2014....back to the philosophies of Williams. Edited July 28, 2015 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:57 PM) I don't think people give Hahn a pass, but we had 13 years of watching Kenny operate largely independently, and 3 years now of Hahn...where we don't really know. So when we look at the moves, there are moves that feel like KW moves. And the worst flaw of KW was shortsightedness...and losing out on a potential dynamite arm (but we don't know) of Hoffman for 6 years in exchange for going for it when still under 500 at the end of July just seems like KW. the most excellent point of describing this love - hate interesting KW. plus it is like a mystery. so... who made what move in the sox trades. their is the mystery and then try to figure out what is the f*** is the reasoning. hoffman trade is puzzling unless you think the offense that tor hopes from the ss is worth the talent being traded. top must be really desperate to make the post season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 08:57 AM) I don't think people give Hahn a pass, but we had 13 years of watching Kenny operate largely independently, and 3 years now of Hahn...where we don't really know. So when we look at the moves, there are moves that feel like KW moves. And the worst flaw of KW was shortsightedness...and losing out on a potential dynamite arm (but we don't know) of Hoffman for 6 years in exchange for going for it when still under 500 at the end of July just seems like KW. On this board this winter when moves were made, one post I replied to said if there was ever a question who was in charge, that was put by the boards. Hahn was his own man. I actually pointed out trading prospects for a free agent to be seemed not unlike something that would be considered a KW move, but was quickly shot down. Hahn received a ton a praise all winter on here, and as soon as the team flopped, they flipped from Hahn acquisitions to KW acquisitions. If Rick Hahn has zero responsibility for any of the moves the past 3 seasons that have blown up in the White Sox face, then, if he had any pride, he would move along. That is simply not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:04 AM) On this board this winter when moves were made, one post I replied to said if there was ever a question who was in charge, that was put by the boards. Hahn was his own man. I actually pointed out trading prospects for a free agent to be seemed not unlike something that would be considered a KW move, but was quickly shot down. Hahn received a ton a praise all winter on here, and as soon as the team flopped, they flipped from Hahn acquisitions to KW acquisitions. If Rick Hahn has zero responsibility for any of the moves the past 3 seasons that have blown up in the White Sox face, then, if he had any pride, he would move along. That is simply not the case. I 100% believe that Hahn was pushed into accelerating into being competitive this season by JR/Kenny. The moves, I still think are Hahn. But the strategy was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:04 AM) On this board this winter when moves were made, one post I replied to said if there was ever a question who was in charge, that was put by the boards. Hahn was his own man. I actually pointed out trading prospects for a free agent to be seemed not unlike something that would be considered a KW move, but was quickly shot down. Hahn received a ton a praise all winter on here, and as soon as the team flopped, they flipped from Hahn acquisitions to KW acquisitions. If Rick Hahn has zero responsibility for any of the moves the past 3 seasons that have blown up in the White Sox face, then, if he had any pride, he would move along. That is simply not the case. Guaranteed contracts with lots of zeros tend to take precedence over pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Nothing mind-boggling about it. As GM, Kenny Williams has a long history of poor value trades, poor evaluation of even veteran players, and a decade of poor drafts. But most of all, there was never a consistent plan. Overapy for a vet - then give him away.No consistency. and poor drafting. And it was when the flows from the 1988-2000 drafts expired, he had no more prospects to trade for veterans, and the losing records began to accumulate. so all the prospects have accumulated in the last several yrs, are now assets to play with, just like the children building blocks. 2014....back to the philosophies of Williams. some of the offseason really looked like it was not kw modus operandi, it was, if i had to guess. sometime around jan that things chg. this is my opinion. Edited July 28, 2015 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 03:06 PM) I 100% believe that Hahn was pushed into accelerating into being competitive this season by JR/Kenny. The moves, I still think are Hahn. But the strategy was not. but where is the accountability factor?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 08:58 AM) Nothing mind-boggling about it. As GM, Kenny Williams has a long history of poor value trades, poor evaluation of even veteran players, and a decade of poor drafts. But most of all, there was never a consistent plan. Overapy for a vet - then give him away.No consistency. And it was when the flows from the 1988-2000 drafts expired, he had no more prospects to trade for veterans, and the losing records began to accumulate. The 2013 winter looked nothing like what Kenny Williams had done in his tenure...thus credit or blame to Hahn, however you see it. 2014....back to the philosophies of Williams. Mindboggling. KW is horrible. JR is horrible. RH, zero baseball experience before being hired by the White Sox, is trained for his position by these guys who supposedly haven't a clue. Now, he is the guy with all the correct answers. Say it ain't so Rick. It is almost as if some will shed a tear if it ever is revealed Rick Hahn made a bad baseball decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The White Sox were ordered by JR to try to get competitive this season. That is documented when the article about the dinner came up. I am not a KW fan, but he actually did make many nice moves. Not every move he made was horrible. If you consider the White Sox a mess (which I don't) Rick Hahn has his fingerprints over it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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