bmags Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Dick, many people believe Sox needed to stay patient and rebuild their young talent. Hahn has done a good job of that. JR/KW have shown to be aggressive and pushed up that timeline. We thought Hahn did so without compromising long-term talent. Turned out to be worst of both worlds. But if you believe in being patient, then you will be against the KW model (right now). Not hard to grasp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShandyMan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The sox were never going to get Hoffman in a deal for Shark. The news about the FO is a little bit unsettling, but I still believe that they will make the right moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:20 AM) Dick, many people believe Sox needed to stay patient and rebuild their young talent. Hahn has done a good job of that. JR/KW have shown to be aggressive and pushed up that timeline. We thought Hahn did so without compromising long-term talent. Turned out to be worst of both worlds. But if you believe in being patient, then you will be against the KW model (right now). Not hard to grasp. The young talent is still being allowed to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:20 AM) Dick, many people believe Sox needed to stay patient and rebuild their young talent. Hahn has done a good job of that. JR/KW have shown to be aggressive and pushed up that timeline. We thought Hahn did so without compromising long-term talent. Turned out to be worst of both worlds. But if you believe in being patient, then you will be against the KW model (right now). Not hard to grasp. Woah Woah Woah. You are being a little too rational for some here to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) The White Sox were ordered by JR to try to get competitive this season. That is documented when the article about the dinner came up. I am not a KW fan, but he actually did make many nice moves. Not every move he made was horrible. If you consider the White Sox a mess (which I don't) Rick Hahn has his fingerprints over it as well. He did make some nice moves - but his percentage isn't good, especially 2009-2012. And his best moves have been when he wasn't trying to change the world.... like Chris Carter for Carlos Quentin. The farm is a heck of a lot better now than it has been.... KW prob deserves a lot of credit (as well as a lot of blame for the poor farm for many years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:23 AM) The young talent is still being allowed to rebuild. Sure, I agree. but we are still hoping that every.single.prospect. hits. We do not have the depth, which is why it hurts to not exploit an asset with little long-term value (samardjiza), that could add talent to the system. It just minimizes risk. But hey, things are looking good if Saladino/Sanchez show they can hang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:20 AM) Dick, many people believe Sox needed to stay patient and rebuild their young talent. Hahn has done a good job of that. JR/KW have shown to be aggressive and pushed up that timeline. We thought Hahn did so without compromising long-term talent. Turned out to be worst of both worlds. But if you believe in being patient, then you will be against the KW model (right now). Not hard to grasp. And their talented guys are still here. Semien was expendable. I really liked Bassitt but he was expendable. Ravelo is a 1b/DH with little power. They really haven't given up the future for the present at all. I see many posts saying trading Q and his team friendly contract for a hitter is a must. What I don't understand is everything you want to believe the Sox have don't correctly, you say Hahn did a great job. Anything you disagree with, well that had to be that idiot KW. Reality doesn't work that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 08:35 AM) Now, Avi has his warts, but you would have to think he is worth a bit more than Middlebrooks. He is actually half a win less valuable than Middlebrooks as of today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:32 AM) And their talented guys are still here. Semien was expendable. I really liked Bassitt but he was expendable. Ravelo is a 1b/DH with little power. They really haven't given up the future for the present at all. I see many posts saying trading Q and his team friendly contract for a hitter is a must. What I don't understand is everything you want to believe the Sox have don't correctly, you say Hahn did a great job. Anything you disagree with, well that had to be that idiot KW. Reality doesn't work that way. Dick, you have to stop doing this. It's nonsense. You can't pull any random post from any poster to support a post and claim hypocrisy on who you are talking to. I do think that KW's hard-headedness after 2010 put this team in bad straits for moving forward. I do NOT think that KW is the right GM for this team right now. I think he would have been great to take over the Padres/Toronto, teams that need to go for it. But we need someone who is calm and patient, and Hahn seems like that guy! But to me his moves have GOT to hit, and if we cleaned house after this year to start over I wouldn't say he was treated unfairly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:33 AM) He is actually half a win less valuable than Middlebrooks as of today. If you offered Avi for Middlebrooks, SD would take the trade. Hahn is the back up QB here. An assumed star based upon nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor13 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I love all the talk about our f***ed up front office but I'll return to the topic. At this point in time I would not trade Shark unless somehow you could package him for Bautista, Puig, or CarGo. This is just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:31 AM) Sure, I agree. but we are still hoping that every.single.prospect. hits. We do not have the depth, which is why it hurts to not exploit an asset with little long-term value (samardjiza), that could add talent to the system. It just minimizes risk. But hey, things are looking good if Saladino/Sanchez show they can hang. With the veterans we brought in, we need less prospects to hit then we did in 2013 and 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Condor13 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:35 AM) If Puig came to the sox I don't think he would be a problem at all. Abreu and Alexei will get him in line and keep him there Alexei can't keep himself in line on the field too much of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Condor13 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:39 AM) I love all the talk about our f***ed up front office but I'll return to the topic. At this point in time I would not trade Shark unless somehow you could package him for Bautista, Puig, or CarGo. This is just my opinion. I really wanted Hoffman, not sure there's anyone on Giants I'm that thrilled with. The thought of having both Hoffman and Rodon from that draft was thrilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:48 AM) With the veterans we brought in, we need less prospects to hit then we did in 2013 and 2014. These veteran hitters aren't exactly crushing it. And they're in their declining years. Still way too many holes to trade young players. The 2 guys who are likeliest to go for a vet, if KW is negotiating, are the 2 Johnsons, plus a couple of our better A ball pitchers. Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:48 AM) With the veterans we brought in, we need less prospects to hit then we did in 2013 and 2014. Are you sure? Avi looks like he's not an OFer, are we banking on Hawkins? Are we going to go with a power deficit of Saladino-Sanchez-micah in the infield? Catcher for future? Doesn't seem like we have plugged much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 For all of this KW bashing and trading away prospects, who has he traded away that amounted to anything of significance? Gio Gonzalez is the only player that comes to my mind. Here's the recent deadline trades abd I don't see anything alarming at all. Maybe I am missing some trades but I don't see the Sox giving anything up of significance over the years. 2008: Griffey for Nick Masset and Danny Richar= nothing trade 2009: Acquired Peavy for Poreda, Rusell, Clayton Richard and Dexter Carter= good trade 2010: Edwin Jackson for Daniel Hudson and David Holmberg= nothing trade 2012: Brett Myers for Matt Heidenreich and Blair Walters Francisco Liriano for Eduardo Escobar and Pedro Hernandez= I do that trade everyday even though Liriano didn't fare all that well in Chicago. 2013: Peavy for Garcia, Montas, Wendelken, and Rondon too early to tell but looks promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:55 AM) Are you sure? Avi looks like he's not an OFer, are we banking on Hawkins? Are we going to go with a power deficit of Saladino-Sanchez-micah in the infield? Catcher for future? Doesn't seem like we have plugged much. Who is being blocked that the White Sox can't wait to trade? Instead of assuming they are going to trade every prospect away, why not wait until it actually happens? I do remember how dumb trading Reed away was. Turned out it was a genius trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:53 AM) These veteran hitters aren't exactly crushing it. And they're in their declining years. Still way too many holes to trade young players. The 2 guys who are likeliest to go for a vet, if KW is negotiating, are the 2 Johnsons, plus a couple of our better A ball pitchers. Pass. In hindsight, yes. Then again, now these guys are mostly hitting, which changes things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:56 AM) For all of this KW bashing and trading away prospects, who has he traded away that amounted to anything of significance? Gio Gonzalez is the only player that comes to my mind. Here's the recent deadline trades abd I don't see anything alarming at all. Maybe I am missing some trades but I don't see the Sox giving anything up of significance over the years. 2008: Griffey for Nick Masset and Danny Richar= nothing trade 2009: Acquired Peavy for Poreda, Rusell, Clayton Richard and Dexter Carter= good trade 2010: Edwin Jackson for Daniel Hudson and David Holmberg= nothing trade 2012: Brett Myers for Matt Heidenreich and Blair Walters Francisco Liriano for Eduardo Escobar and Pedro Hernandez= I do that trade everyday even though Liriano didn't fare all that well in Chicago. 2013: Peavy for Garcia, Montas, Wendelken, and Rondon too early to tell but looks promising. Well, the Edwin Jackson/Daniel Hudson trade was pretty bad.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think Toronto is even more interesting now more than ever. 1- the Sox are on a winning streak 2- the Sox have Samardzija, Q and Sale pitching against a bad Red Sox team. 3- the Sox can always keep Samardzija for playoff push and still get a comp pick. 4- the Tulo trade showed the Jays are looking to win now. Even gave up Hoffman which was said to be off limits. 5- Toronto still needs pitching, badly. The Sox do not have to trade pitching whereas Toronto has to trade for pitching and if they really are high on Samardzija then it should cost them dearly. If they won't pay then its their loss and not the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:55 AM) Are you sure? Avi looks like he's not an OFer, are we banking on Hawkins? Are we going to go with a power deficit of Saladino-Sanchez-micah in the infield? Catcher for future? Doesn't seem like we have plugged much. Before we needed a #2 RH starter, a LF, and a closer, in addition to what we need now. How is that not putting less pressure on guys to develop? Realistically, it would have put at least a couple of guys into positions they might not have been ready for in April. Instead they are still in the minors. Under the no signings in the off season version, we either have Scott Carroll or Erik Johnson in the rotation. We also have god knows who else in the bullpen, maybe Montas as a reliever? I can't even guess who the extra OF would have been. As guys are moved to Chicago, other guys get moved to AAA to fill their spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) Well, the Edwin Jackson/Daniel Hudson trade was pretty bad.. Hudson has only had one season where he was healthy and Jackson did well for us that season anyway. It was a wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFinn Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I can't assume that the Sox lost out on Hoffman because of chaos in the front office. The Sox might have been saying all along that any deal for Samardzija must include Hoffman in the return package. At the same time the Rockies could have been telling the Jays that any deal for Tulo would require the inclusion of Hoffman. The Phillies might have told Toronto the same about a package for Hamels. Toronto picked the trade for Tulowitzki because they could find another, cheaper starter to tide them over until Marcus Stroman returns from rehab for his knee. Someone like Mat Latos or Dan Haren from the Marlins or Tyson Ross, Ian Kennedy, or James Shields from the Padres. If the White Sox infield defense over the past month or so is for real, I would like me some of that Tyson Ross. With his GB/FB ration is 1.77 this year and a strikeout rate of 9.7 per 9 IP, he could pitch in Harry Caray's telephone booth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:56 AM) For all of this KW bashing and trading away prospects, who has he traded away that amounted to anything of significance? Gio Gonzalez is the only player that comes to my mind. Here's the recent deadline trades abd I don't see anything alarming at all. Maybe I am missing some trades but I don't see the Sox giving anything up of significance over the years. 2008: Griffey for Nick Masset and Danny Richar= nothing trade 2009: Acquired Peavy for Poreda, Rusell, Clayton Richard and Dexter Carter= good trade 2010: Edwin Jackson for Daniel Hudson and David Holmberg= nothing trade 2012: Brett Myers for Matt Heidenreich and Blair Walters Francisco Liriano for Eduardo Escobar and Pedro Hernandez= I do that trade everyday even though Liriano didn't fare all that well in Chicago. 2013: Peavy for Garcia, Montas, Wendelken, and Rondon too early to tell but looks promising. That has more to do with the lack of talent in the Sox system, then great trading by Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.