Bob Sacamano Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Calling it now: Sox win 3/4 against Boston, stand pat with team, slowly dwindle into last place the weeks following. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneofthemikes Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 10:39 AM) But how can you attribute those results to him when it's not clear which moves were made/inspired by which executive? Therein lies the insulation in which unfettered loyalty is conceived. That's a gorgeous sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 11:42 AM) Calling it now: Sox win 3/4 against Boston, stand pat with team, slowly dwindle into last place the weeks following. If they want to win they need to add. Standing pat really makes the least sense out of all the moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 11:36 AM) Are they getting desperate? I think they will overpay for a pitcher whether its Shark or Ross from SD. Hoping Shark obviously so we can plug in EJ, but I really think we can land one of Norris/Pompey for Shark if Toronto gets desperate enough. I have to figure EJ is in Boston just in case. Unless he is called up I do not believe Sox can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:44 PM) If they want to win they need to add. Standing pat really makes the least sense out of all the moves. Giving up good prospects for a team 3 games under .500 at the end of July makes the least sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:02 PM) Giving up good prospects for a team 3 games under .500 at the end of July makes the least sense. You do understand they might not be in the next 3 days. They could be at 500. The trade deadline isnt today. They are 4.5 games back from the second Wild Card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Ben Nicholson-Smith @bnicholsonsmith 58s58 seconds ago AA says, in French, that #Bluejays are still trying to add pitching https://twitter.com/bnicholsonsmith Mike Wilner @Wilnerness590 46s46 seconds ago AA: We weren't too thrilled about trading some of our better prospects for rentals. Getting better doesn't have to mean reliever or starter. https://twitter.com/Wilnerness590 Edited July 28, 2015 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 11:39 AM) But how can you attribute those results to him when it's not clear which moves were made/inspired by which executive? Therein lies the insulation in which unfettered loyalty is conceived. The unfettered loyalty which led to a literal hire off of the street becoming our GM over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:06 PM) Ben Nicholson-Smith @bnicholsonsmith 58s58 seconds ago AA says, in French, that #Bluejays are still trying to add pitching https://twitter.com/bnicholsonsmith Mike Wilner @Wilnerness590 46s46 seconds ago AA: We weren't too thrilled about trading some of our better prospects for rentals. Getting better doesn't have to mean reliever or starter. https://twitter.com/Wilnerness590 That's all smoke I think. If they don't want to pay the price, they won't make the playoffs, that simple. Because their pitching is pretty bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:09 PM) That's all smoke I think. If they don't want to pay the price, they won't make the playoffs, that simple. Because their pitching is pretty bad. Definitely alot of smoke. Plus they are one of the teams we have to go through. Fine you dont want to trade for our pitching. We'll just use it to leap frog you for the Wild Card spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:10 PM) Definitely alot of smoke. Plus they are one of the teams we have to go through. Fine you dont want to trade for our pitching. We'll just use it to leap frog you for the Wild Card spot. Exactly. And if they don't want Shark, and we jump them in the standings. If I were Hahn, I would send a smiley face text to AA lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 11:40 AM) If Toronto offers Norris in a package, you cannot say no in my opinion. Probably not, but not exactly what the Sox need...another LHP. Not saying I hate the offer (altho Shark gives us a much better chance of actually getting into the playoffs than Norris or EJ), I just think the Sox need bats if they're gonna trade Shark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) Probably not, but not exactly what the Sox need...another LHP. Not saying I hate the offer (altho Shark gives us a much better chance of actually getting into the playoffs than Norris or EJ), I just think the Sox need bats if they're gonna trade Shark. I'd still take a pitcher back...but it better be a really good pitcher. A "really, they gave that guy up for a rental?" kinda pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:13 PM) Probably not, but not exactly what the Sox need...another LHP. Not saying I hate the offer (altho Shark gives us a much better chance of actually getting into the playoffs than Norris or EJ), I just think the Sox need bats if they're gonna trade Shark. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:13 PM) I'd still take a pitcher back...but it better be a really good pitcher. A "really, they gave that guy up for a rental?" kinda pitcher. In the off season you can trade for needs. But right now, you take the best offer you get no matter what position. Unless it was a Q for Puig type deal that actually makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:15 PM) In the off season you can trade for needs. But right now, you take the best offer you get no matter what position. Unless it was a Q for Puig type deal that actually makes sense. I don't think a Q for Puig type of deal makes sense (assuming there aren't other pieces). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 11:17 AM) I don't think a Q for Puig type of deal makes sense (assuming there aren't other pieces). Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It's so clear AA is talking about Shark in this press conference. Just a good cat and mouse game right now. Who will blink first? Find out on the next episode of DBZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) Why not? Puig is cancer, has s***ty numbers this year, and I think there is more value in Quintana's contract. Quintana is signed for two additional years (afforadable team options) when Puig will already be gone via FA. And Puig is more expensive than Quintana for the next 3.5 years. I don't hate the idea, but I want more than Puig back for Q, not a 1-1, and I think a package of prospects would be better than trading for a guy that widely known as a complete clown. Edited July 28, 2015 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) Puig is cancer, has s***ty numbers this year, and I think there is more value in Quintana's contract. Quintana is signed for two additional years (afforadable team options) when Puig will already be gone via FA. And Puig is more expensive than Quintana for the next 3.5 years. I don't hate the idea, but I want more than Puig back for Q, not a 1-1, and I think a package of prospects would be better than trading for a guy that widely known as a complete clown. Puig, Barnes, and Guerrero. Why Guerrero, because I said so, and because he has supposedly indicated he'd be open to signing with a team who trades for him (so if we could lock him in, we might have someone, who with development time, could be our 3B of the future). He clearly isn't ready to be that today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 10:31 AM) I agree with DA's points too and him and I have been beating that drum for a while but I don't agree on your conclusions. How does Rick Hahn not having full control take away from his potential as an executive? He's a modern baseball man. KW is not and frankly acts irrationally for an attempt at a quick win. Besides, there are very few front offices where one guy has full control. The difference between our front office is that there are two guys running it and they are on different ends of the spectrum when it comes to operations. That's a big difference from what you see in Oakland with Beane having Zaidi (now Forst) as his side kick, different than Theo and Jed on the North Side and different than Jon Daniels and Preller before Preller left, Friedman and Zaidi in LA, LaRussa and Stewart in Arizona, and on and on and on. Besides, this type of structure allows for them to both be insulated. What more would you expect from the most loyal org in all of baseball? I'm not sure how much you want to be praising Preller when he was cited for ethics violations and has done a much better job than KW on his worst day could have done quickly running that franchise aground. Of course, KW had his own scandal in LA, with Dave Wilder, depending how much of that you want to blame on him for being the chief executive in charge at the time, and occasionally showing a lack of insight about specific prospects like Nestor Molina. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2...-latin-america/ I also think that citing LaRussa/Stewart as being sabrematricians or anything but non-"old school guys" isn't quite accurate. AJ Hinch got run out there on a rail once upon a time and many believe he was the perfect mixture of a modern baseball guy in terms of mixing the two sides, and it's certainly paying off in spades for the Astros this season. Time will tell. If you replaced Buddy Bell with someone more in touch with the modern game, then the White Sox would be fine, when/if they decide who to ultimately run things at the top. Edited July 28, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) So in order for an organization to be considered loyal the loyalty has to be absolute? Are you saying there's not a prevalence of loyalty in this organization? Really, what's your point? The loyalty thing is fairly overblown with the White Sox. Yes, they are not quick to fire people. But this isn't even unusual. Anaheim just chose their 10 year term manager over their GM. Look around the organization. Rick Hahn. Marco Paddy. Buddy Bell. Jeremy Haber. Brooks Boyer. All are in top positions in the organization, and came from the "outside", with no prior connections to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) Puig is cancer, has s***ty numbers this year, and I think there is more value in Quintana's contract. Quintana is signed for two additional years (afforadable team options) when Puig will already be gone via FA. And Puig is more expensive than Quintana for the next 3.5 years. I don't hate the idea, but I want more than Puig back for Q, not a 1-1, and I think a package of prospects would be better than trading for a guy that widely known as a complete clown. Because acquiring expensive veterans like CarGo, Ethier, Reyes or Tulo that further hamstring the organization from a financial standpoint works as a better model? Sometimes you have to roll the dice with young talent. The bust rate is high, look at Beckham, Viciedo and now it's likely Avi is heading in that direction as well. With Puig, you have a track record of results in 2013 and 2014, and he's only 24 years old. Frankly, I'm not sure that Robin Ventura is the right guy to control him, but I do have some confidence with Abreu and Ramirez around (and even moreso if we brought in Guerrero as well). Edited July 28, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 11:35 AM) Because acquiring expensive veterans like CarGo, Reyes or Tulo that further hamstring the organization from a financial standpoint works as a better model? Sometimes you have to roll the dice with young talent. The bust rate is high, look at Beckham, Viciedo and now it's likely Avi is heading in that direction as well. With Puig, you have a track record of results in 2013 and 2014, and he's only 24 years old. Frankly, I'm not sure that Robin Ventura is the right guy to control him, but I do have some confidence with Abreu and Ramirez around (and even moreso if we brought in Guerrero as well). Exactly. Puig has shown the ability to come up and hit at this level. Tank always struggled, Beckham started hot but was never the same after his half rookie season. Avi is still only 24. He has potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:37 PM) Exactly. Puig has shown the ability to come up and hit at this level. Tank always struggled, Beckham started hot but was never the same after his half rookie season. Avi is still only 24. He has potential. I think Avi can be a productive DH for this team moving forward. The difference between him and Tank or Beckham is that he has more offensive raw tools. Avi does not belong in right field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:39 PM) Never praised Preller. Never brought up scandals or Nestor Molina. Never cited LaRussa/Stewart as "sabrematricians." Not sure how you found a way to include AJ Hinch. Good stuff though, caulfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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