Yet another "racial" confrontation with police, this time in

[Balta1701]

I would have had zero problem with him pulling his gun if they took a swing at him. Would have been better had he pulled a nightstick or something, but if it were escalated to violence from them, then yes. What same person rushes a cop? Especially one that you see is acting crazy?

Isn't the rule on pulling a gun that you don't pull the gun as a threat, you pull the gun because you're prepared to shoot the person you're aiming it at? Isn't that like responsible gun ownership basics?

[EvilMonkey]

Isn't the rule on pulling a gun that you don't pull the gun as a threat, you pull the gun because you're prepared to shoot the person you're aiming it at? Isn't that like responsible gun ownership basics?

Yes. And if the guys coming at him presented a knife or a gun I am pretty sure he would have shot to defend himself. Would you rather he waited until they were upon him?

[Balta1701]

Yes. And if the guys coming at him presented a knife or a gun I am pretty sure he would have shot to defend himself. Would you rather he waited until they were upon him?

What reason other than "Texas" would he have to assume anyone is coming at him armed? It's a pool.

[chw42]

What reason other than "Texas" would he have to assume anyone is coming at him armed? It's a pool.

 

The color of his skin.

[EvilMonkey]

What reason other than "Texas" would he have to assume anyone is coming at him armed? It's a pool.

You are being obtuse on purpose, I am sure. He is occupied on the ground trying to secure someone, and more than one guy start approaching him from the side/behind, surely not to ask if he needs to be hydrated or anything less threatening. ANYTHING could happen from being knocked over, to being hit, to an actual weapon to his own gun being removed from the holster while he is occupied. They should have just backed away. They have a camera rolling, the story will come out, get twisted, replayed from every angle with everyone's agenda attached to it, edited, lied about, shown entirely. the cop chose poorly from the beginning of that tape on, protecting himself from a potential threat was not the worst of what he did.

[Balta1701]

You are being obtuse on purpose, I am sure. He is occupied on the ground trying to secure someone, and more than one guy start approaching him from the side/behind, surely not to ask if he needs to be hydrated or anything less threatening. ANYTHING could happen from being knocked over, to being hit, to an actual weapon to his own gun being removed from the holster while he is occupied. They should have just backed away. They have a camera rolling, the story will come out, get twisted, replayed from every angle with everyone's agenda attached to it, edited, lied about, shown entirely. the cop chose poorly from the beginning of that tape on, protecting himself from a potential threat was not the worst of what he did.

I'm 100% serious. Every single thing I've ever heard about pulling a gun on people is that you pull a gun because you're ready to fire, not as a threat to scare people away.

[Jenksismyhero]

Just got around to viewing this. IMO the cop was overzealous in a typical napoleon-complex, authoritative dick cop way. People were running from him (has to be the explanation for the barrel role and the subsequent orders to the black kids on the sidewalk). And with the girls he was trying to get them to leave and they wouldn't and then they kept running their mouths. Is that worthy of being forced to the ground? No, but he's a dick cop who let his emotions get to him. He's to blame for riling things up, but when people respond stupidly to cops, they should expect potentially stupid/extreme reactions. The cop should absolutely be fined and suspended but termination seems extreme. As does any civil suit. That was a bunch of nothing and she didn't appear to be hurt at all.

 

Regarding the gun situation, those kids were coming up from behind him quickly and screaming. All he was doing was trying to cuff someone who wasn't following his orders and then a crowd starts to gather and scream around him. He was outnumbered, regardless of the cops in the area, and I have zero qualms with him pulling out his gun. You'll notice he never aimed it at them but always kept it down to the ground.

 

Balta, i'm not aware of any police protocol that requires a cop to be 100% certain he's going to use his weapon before he can take it out of the holster. It shouldn't be used as a show of force in most situations, but you can clearly tell the guy felt in danger because of his body language. He has that right. If you're stupid enough to charge a cop, you're stupid enough to get shot. Why don't people think that's a logical way for both parties to act?

 

This is, once again, the media trying to capitalize on a white cop/black victim story when in reality it's a cop going a bit too far with a non-compliant person.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Also, at the end he's calmly explaining why he did what he did with the two black kids on the sidewalk. The cops showed up and they all scattered. They became part of the "mob" that they were trying to break up/stop. Of course they're going to assume you did something wrong when you try to run away. That's just stupid.

[Balta1701]

Just got around to viewing this. IMO the cop was overzealous in a typical napoleon-complex, authoritative dick cop way. People were running from him (has to be the explanation for the barrel role and the subsequent orders to the black kids on the sidewalk). And with the girls he was trying to get them to leave and they wouldn't and then they kept running their mouths. Is that worthy of being forced to the ground? No, but he's a dick cop who let his emotions get to him. He's to blame for riling things up, but when people respond stupidly to cops, they should expect potentially stupid/extreme reactions. The cop should absolutely be fined and suspended but termination seems extreme. As does any civil suit. That was a bunch of nothing and she didn't appear to be hurt at all.

 

Regarding the gun situation, those kids were coming up from behind him quickly and screaming. All he was doing was trying to cuff someone who wasn't following his orders and then a crowd starts to gather and scream around him. He was outnumbered, regardless of the cops in the area, and I have zero qualms with him pulling out his gun. You'll notice he never aimed it at them but always kept it down to the ground.

 

Balta, i'm not aware of any police protocol that requires a cop to be 100% certain he's going to use his weapon before he can take it out of the holster. It shouldn't be used as a show of force in most situations, but you can clearly tell the guy felt in danger because of his body language. He has that right. If you're stupid enough to charge a cop, you're stupid enough to get shot. Why don't people think that's a logical way for both parties to act?

 

This is, once again, the media trying to capitalize on a white cop/black victim story when in reality it's a cop going a bit too far with a non-compliant person.

I'm not saying you're 100% sure you're going to use it, but that you don't pull it out around people as a threat if the situation doesn't warrant shooting them.

[Jenksismyhero]

Regardless of what they were really trying to do, the argument in her civil case will be that they were her friends and trying to protect her from a "out of control" policeman they felt might harm their 15 year old friend who just happened to be wearing a bikini...whether people like it or not, the image of a guy weighing twice as much using that much force and twisting her arm and throwing her back down to the ground isn't going to win him much sympathy.

 

The other thing here is the officers responding had no way of identifying what teens exactly were causing the problem...because by all reports the majority had been invited, and the problem started where other kids came over the fence when they heard the confrontation with the white woman and the girl who organized the event. This wasn't a case of an "all white" party where a bunch of black teens just came and took it over...the majority of the kids who were there at the b-day party were invited...and it seems the main problem arose when the parents took exception to the behavior of some of the kids. Not only did the police officer observe bad judgment, but surely there was a more polite way to address the partygoers than the tact she took which is to attack them directly with verbal taunts/insults. Adults should know better than to start a fight or confrontation with kids. She should have gotten someone in a more official capacity involved before she took matters into her own hands.

 

Based on his own explanation, he showed up and a bunch of people ran away. I think it's fair to assume people that run away are doing something bad and don't want to get caught. Again, if people act civilly to cops, this s*** doesn't happen. When you act stupidly, stupid things happen to you.

[illinilaw08]

Just got around to viewing this. IMO the cop was overzealous in a typical napoleon-complex, authoritative dick cop way. People were running from him (has to be the explanation for the barrel role and the subsequent orders to the black kids on the sidewalk). And with the girls he was trying to get them to leave and they wouldn't and then they kept running their mouths. Is that worthy of being forced to the ground? No, but he's a dick cop who let his emotions get to him. He's to blame for riling things up, but when people respond stupidly to cops, they should expect potentially stupid/extreme reactions. The cop should absolutely be fined and suspended but termination seems extreme. As does any civil suit. That was a bunch of nothing and she didn't appear to be hurt at all.

 

Regarding the gun situation, those kids were coming up from behind him quickly and screaming. All he was doing was trying to cuff someone who wasn't following his orders and then a crowd starts to gather and scream around him. He was outnumbered, regardless of the cops in the area, and I have zero qualms with him pulling out his gun. You'll notice he never aimed it at them but always kept it down to the ground.

 

Balta, i'm not aware of any police protocol that requires a cop to be 100% certain he's going to use his weapon before he can take it out of the holster. It shouldn't be used as a show of force in most situations, but you can clearly tell the guy felt in danger because of his body language. He has that right. If you're stupid enough to charge a cop, you're stupid enough to get shot. Why don't people think that's a logical way for both parties to act?

 

This is, once again, the media trying to capitalize on a white cop/black victim story when in reality it's a cop going a bit too far with a non-compliant person.

 

Isn't this the crux of the issues we've seen played out in the media lately? A cop going too far with a non-compliant (and non-violent) person can end up with that person being seriously injured or dead. To me the fallout of all these incidents should be (1) body cameras for officers; and (2) a greater emphasis on non-lethal force with suspects.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm not saying you're 100% sure you're going to use it, but that you don't pull it out around people as a threat if the situation doesn't warrant shooting them.

 

I think it was warranted. Maybe extreme for the circumstance, but i'm not going to second guess the guy in the heat of the moment sitting at my computer screen watching a video from afar. Cops have every right to defend themselves from people. People shouldn't be stupid towards cops and they won't get shot. Plain and simple. I dunno why we as society act all surprised in these situations. You don't the right to be free from response when you go up and threaten someone, cop or no cop.

[Balta1701]

I think it was warranted. Maybe extreme for the circumstance, but i'm not going to second guess the guy in the heat of the moment sitting at my computer screen watching a video from afar. Cops have every right to defend themselves from people. People shouldn't be stupid towards cops and they won't get shot. Plain and simple. I dunno why we as society act all surprised in these situations. You don't the right to be free from response when you go up and threaten someone, cop or no cop.

Do people have a right to defend themselves from cops if the cop acts aggressive towards them and they have previously done nothing wrong?

[EvilMonkey]

Do people have a right to defend themselves from cops if the cop acts aggressive towards them and they have previously done nothing wrong?

There are precedents for that if you didn't know they were a cop (no-knock raids in the middle of the night, cops don't announce and you shoot what you thought was a home invader ) but not every court has agreed.

[Jenksismyhero]

Do people have a right to defend themselves from cops if the cop acts aggressive towards them and they have previously done nothing wrong?

 

Depends on the context, but I'd say yes, you do. If you feel your life is being threatened. But if you rush a cop you're inviting a response. Much like the stand your ground laws, you can't invite the response and then claim you're a victim. It's just stupid to rush at a cop while he's trying to arrest someone. Doing so is not defending yourself, it's an assault and it opens you up to being shot.

[Jenksismyhero]

Isn't this the crux of the issues we've seen played out in the media lately? A cop going too far with a non-compliant (and non-violent) person can end up with that person being seriously injured or dead. To me the fallout of all these incidents should be (1) body cameras for officers; and (2) a greater emphasis on non-lethal force with suspects.

 

1) The non-violent part really isn't relevant. If you have cause to arrest someone and they resist non-violently, at the end of the day you still have to effectuate the arrest. If all we had to do was resist peacefully and cops wouldn't be allowed to get physical, then everyone would resist and no one would be arrested. I still don't get the issue with Eric Garner in that respect. He was resisting arrest. Peacefully, yes, non-violently, yes, but he wasn't going to let them arrest him so the cops had to get physical. We can debate whether chokeholds should be used, but regardless there was going to be a physical altercation there because he resisted.

 

2) Body cameras would have done nothing here. We have video and we still differ on what is/is not acceptable behavior.

 

3) I don't have a problem with this as a general principle, but I'm going to give great deference to a cop in a situation that's playing out in seconds v. me analyzing the situation by watching a video at my desk. Yes, cops should be trained not to use lethal force if at all possible. Non-lethal force and/or protection should be taught more and more. Cops should also undergo "get that stick out of your ass" therapy. I wish it were 100 times easier to fire a cop for being an asshole and/or worthless. Nearly every single cop encounter i've had personally, the guy has always been a complete dick because they think they wield some awesome power. That's a problem.

 

But I have friends who are cops in dangerous areas of the city. And I don't really want to go to a funeral one day because the guy was ordered to not protect himself over some fear of a PR backlash.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[Jake]

I think it is clear that much of the reaction you see from the kids is based on the fact that they did not trust the cops to treat them fairly or even in a way that preserved their safety. Why take off running if you aren't doing anything wrong? Maybe because you think the cops aren't going to treat you like an innocent person. Why try to help free your friend from an officer's grasp? Because you fear for their life.

 

Now, that doesn't necessarily make those fears well-founded, though the way things went sure won't help anybody there restore their faith. I think it's clear that many people, especially black people, have little trust in the police. It's also clear that they are not insane to feel that way. And whether they should feel so much distrust that they outright disobey them or intervene on behalf of their peers is obviously pretty debatable. We know that most police interactions are perfectly fine. But the fact is that we as a society have a problem largely of our own creation regarding trust of police.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, how many times no matter what the circumstances do you see a bunch of teenagers just act calmly and remain fixed in place when the cops show up?

 

I'd love to see that video, actually....white, black, Hispanic, ANY teenagers. They're probably just as afraid of their parents if they got arrested by the police.

 

But the last point stands, and it's coming out in most of the stories. That many minority parents are teaching their children TO RUN AWAY LIKE HELL because the consequences of following police instructions are even more potentially dangerous, at least in the eyes of the public.

 

No black teenager is going to view this and think if a 15 year old girl in a bikini weighing 120 pounds is treated this way by Office Casebolt that older and male black teenagers won't receive even worse treatment from white police officers. If pool parties are broken up with pulling out a gun...and without fellow officers there, better than even odds he starts discharging his weapon in the air to try to control the crowd or worse.

 

It's a cost/benefit analysis thing. Following the officer's instructions, you might end up dead and/or killed by your parents. Run, you have a better chance of getting out of it without any consequences. It's kind of ironic in a year when a movie about the Selma bridge beating was one of the best movies of the year that 50 years later the distrust of law enforcement officials isn't too far removed from the KKK influenced Deep South police forces. And you'll also recall the only force that never "gave in" and resorted to violence was the most successful one in frustrating the marchers and their aims, in Albany, GA.

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resi...-215553860.html

The officer just resigned his position.

 

 

Jessica Williams of McKinney films her own Daily Show version with "bikini/body suit" combo

http://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-daily-show-...-162242184.html

 

When Stewart suggested that pool parties should be fun and involve "super soakers," Williams was shocked.

 

"A water gun at a Texas pool party? Are you trying to get me killed?" she said.

 

"It's Texas — people are always waving guns around," Stewart replied.

 

"Uh, no," she said. "White people are and they call it 'open carry.' For black people it's called 'He's got a gun! He's got a gun! He's got a gun!'"

Edited June 9, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

The actions of Eric Casebolt, the police corporal shown in a video responding to reports of fighting at a pool party in McKinney, Texas, were "indefensible," the city's police chief said in a news conference Tuesday announcing the corporal's resignation. "Our policies, our training, our practice, do not support his actions," Police Chief Greg Conley said. "He came into the call out of control, and as the video shows, was out of control during the incident."

That's his police chief describing his actions while announcing his resignation. For actions that were "indefensible" this thread has a lot of defense.

[Kyyle23]

Shouldn't have led with the barrel roll. That is a finisher

[caulfield12]

Wasn't the barrel roll an accidental trip that he tried to sell?

[EvilMonkey]

That many minority parents are teaching their children TO RUN AWAY LIKE HELL because the consequences of following police instructions are even more potentially dangerous, at least in the eyes of the public.

So, Mike Brown was following police instructions? Eric Garner was following police instructions? They were plainly NOT following police instructions. So from those instances, how is following police instructions more dangerous?

[caulfield12]

So, Mike Brown was following police instructions? Eric Garner was following police instructions? They were plainly NOT following police instructions. So from those instances, how is following police instructions more dangerous?

 

 

Brown at least stopped.

[Jenksismyhero]

That's his police chief describing his actions while announcing his resignation. For actions that were "indefensible" this thread has a lot of defense.

 

No political angle to this at all right?

 

[farmteam]

No political angle to this at all right?

Even based solely on the video before the girl's friends ran back toward him he should have been placed on a lengthy unpaid leave, if not canned. Inexcusable and stupid. There were plenty of other cops visible in the video, and they weren't freaking out like this guy.

 

And good for the two cops for running up as soon as the guy pulled out his gun, but why weren't they calming down before?