Yet another "racial" confrontation with police, this time in

[greg775]

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/teacher-fir...1365623792.html

 

Two teachers have now been fired for supporting the police officer and/or denigrating African-American kids.

 

People never learn about how to filter themselves at facebook and twitter.

Good point, caulfield. How dumb to go on Facebook and make racist comments. I mean were they just begging to get fired. That one teacher said she almost was in favor of segregation to keep them on their side of town. Geezus. Are people raised to be that fricking ignorant?

[caulfield12]

http://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-pool-party-...-014210547.html

 

More questionable incidents showing up in officer's past.

[Jake]

I do wonder to what extent some of our disagreements on police incidents is rooted in different ideas of what police are for and what we expect of them. I think there is some degree to which some see police as perfectly normal civilians doing a particular job where they should be held to the same standard as anyone at any job. Others see police as one of a few very special positions in society where we expect something beyond the typical job performance.

[Balta1701]

I do wonder to what extent some of our disagreements on police incidents is rooted in different ideas of what police are for and what we expect of them. I think there is some degree to which some see police as perfectly normal civilians doing a particular job where they should be held to the same standard as anyone at any job. Others see police as one of a few very special positions in society where we expect something beyond the typical job performance.

This is a piece from a law school professor on the subject of how officers view themselves - his word choice for that description is "Guardian" or "Warrior". Worth reading on this subject IMO.

[greg775]

Good link. I especially like this line in the story. ... "A short video of officers in McKinney, Texas, shows us the avoidable results of an unnecessarily aggressive approach to policing. But in the same video, we can see a few seconds of policing the way the way it should be done."

 

[caulfield12]

http://news.yahoo.com/academic-group-votes...-214745973.html

 

In a related matter, how far does internet free speech extend in terms of hiring and firing decisions?

 

University of Illinois censured. Agree or disagree with their actions?

[EvilMonkey]

http://news.yahoo.com/academic-group-votes...-214745973.html

 

In a related matter, how far does internet free speech extend in terms of hiring and firing decisions?

 

University of Illinois censured. Agree or disagree with their actions?

Well, you had no issue with teachers being fired over the last incident, why should this be any different? Perhaps if they went thru and hired that dirtbag anyway, it would have created a hostile environment for any Jewish students at the University. Sounds like an argument that progs use.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm confident if this guy had said something racist the same group would be 100% behind him, right?

[caulfield12]

Well, you had no issue with teachers being fired over the last incident, why should this be any different? Perhaps if they went thru and hired that dirtbag anyway, it would have created a hostile environment for any Jewish students at the University. Sounds like an argument that progs use.

 

As a teacher, I feel that my right to an opinion and selective bias should be something that I present fairly and objectively...saying, this is how some people believe and why, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's right...that students need to study every issue and make up their own minds, certainly not just follow what their parents, teachers or peers tell them without doing some research about the validity of that opinion.

 

Somehow i have the belief that a pro-Israel stance wouldn't have gotten him fired. If the university was consistent and not selective, then that's one thing.

 

 

[cabiness42]

In Louisville, an unarmed black man was shot and killed by a white police officer while being attacked with a flag pole.

 

No fewer than three eyewitnesses swore up and down that the victim was not attacking the officer with the pole, was only holding it, and was at least ten feet away from the officer when shot.

 

Surveillance video was released showing the victim within three feet of the cop, swinging at him with the pole in a blow that landed just as the cop was shooting him.

 

Fortunately, the Louisville police have a pretty decent relationship with the black community, and the three race-baiting liars, who deserve to be locked up in prison, were not successful in starting the kind of rioting that occurred elsewhere.

[EvilMonkey]

In Louisville, an unarmed black man was shot and killed by a white police officer while being attacked with a flag pole.

 

No fewer than three eyewitnesses swore up and down that the victim was not attacking the officer with the pole, was only holding it, and was at least ten feet away from the officer when shot.

 

Surveillance video was released showing the victim within three feet of the cop, swinging at him with the pole in a blow that landed just as the cop was shooting him.

 

Fortunately, the Louisville police have a pretty decent relationship with the black community, and the three race-baiting liars, who deserve to be locked up in prison, were not successful in starting the kind of rioting that occurred elsewhere.

They should be named and shamed as much as possible.

[caulfield12]

They should be named and shamed as much as possible.

 

 

And then what happens when a white person hunts one of them down and kills them out of revenge?

 

 

Naming and shaming are funny things....if you were asked who was responsible for costing taxpayers billions of dollars as a result of the whole credit default swaps/adjustable rate mortgages, most posters MIGHT be able to come up with Angelo Mozilo. That had 100X the impact on everyone here personally, yet do we as a society really want to take this type of approach?

 

Should we do the same thing for girls who make false or contradictory rape allegations, even when they're minors?

 

How do you decide who should "fairly" be named and shamed?

 

What happens if people take the law into their own hands as a result?

 

How many of the white people who have falsely accused black people of robbing or attacking them do we remember? There was the Stuart case in Boston, the Tawana Brawley hoax on the other side, but does that prevent white people from doing the same thing?

[Iwritecode]

Eye-witnesses are notoriously unreliable. I don't know about this particular case but a lot of them would pass a polygraph with flying colors because they truly don't believe they are lying. They honestly believe they saw something completely different than what really happened.

 

The human mind/memory can be a messed up thing.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Iwritecode

[caulfield12]

Eye-witnesses are notoriously unreliable. I don't know about this particular case but a lot of them would pass a polygraph with flying colors because they truly don't believe they are lying. They honestly believe they saw something completely different than what really happened.

 

The human mind/memory can be a messed up thing.

 

 

For example, Anita Hill in the Clarence Thomas case. Passed the polygraph test, etc.

 

Sometimes we believe in a lie so strongly that it essentially becomes the truth, at least our version of it.

[EvilMonkey]

And then what happens when a white person hunts one of them down and kills them out of revenge?

Did you have that concern every time a white cop got named? If that happened, then maybe people wouldn't rush to make up lies to fit their agenda? These three were perfectly willing to completely screw the lives of the white officers, possibly even put them in the crosshairs, because of what? Would suck for them, but I don't care.

[Jenksismyhero]

Eye-witnesses are notoriously unreliable. I don't know about this particular case but a lot of them would pass a polygraph with flying colors because they truly don't believe they are lying. They honestly believe they saw something completely different than what really happened.

 

The human mind/memory can be a messed up thing.

 

10 feet vs 3 feet in distance sure. Holding a flag harmlessly vs beating a cop no. That's just a straight up lie.

[caulfield12]

Did you have that concern every time a white cop got named? If that happened, then maybe people wouldn't rush to make up lies to fit their agenda? These three were perfectly willing to completely screw the lives of the white officers, possibly even put them in the crosshairs, because of what? Would suck for them, but I don't care.

 

 

The difference is that a civilian is generally not as well prepared to defend themself from attack.

 

Assuming you're naming these people, and shaming them....do you want them to buy weapons to prepare for that eventuality?

 

How many of the white police officers named in these high profile cases have been attacked by civilians as a result?

 

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/15/opinions/jon...lity/index.html

Blaming black protesters for "increased crime"?

Edited June 16, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Did you have that concern every time a white cop got named? If that happened, then maybe people wouldn't rush to make up lies to fit their agenda? These three were perfectly willing to completely screw the lives of the white officers, possibly even put them in the crosshairs, because of what? Would suck for them, but I don't care.

Yes, but when we tell you that you can't believe either the testimony of the police officer or the other witnesses in cases because memory of such events is so poor you don't listen because you won't apply that same standard to the police officer and the other key witness keeps not being alive.

[EvilMonkey]

Yes, but when we tell you that you can't believe either the testimony of the police officer or the other witnesses in cases because memory of such events is so poor you don't listen because you won't apply that same standard to the police officer and the other key witness keeps not being alive.

I have no idea what you are rambling on about. In this particular case "Surveillance video was released showing the victim within three feet of the cop, swinging at him with the pole in a blow that landed just as the cop was shooting him." The only wrong eye witness case seems to be from people who wanted to promote an agenda.

[Balta1701]

I have no idea what you are rambling on about. In this particular case "Surveillance video was released showing the victim within three feet of the cop, swinging at him with the pole in a blow that landed just as the cop was shooting him." The only wrong eye witness case seems to be from people who wanted to promote an agenda.

Unless I misread, you asked specifically if we apply the same standard of "witnesses being unreliable" to the cases where African Americans wind up dead while unarmed. My response is...yes we do.

 

The problem is we apply that to the police officers and to the other witnesses too, whereas the people who want to justify killing whoever was killed cannot apply that standard to the police officer because then they'd have to admit that the police officer's testimony (given weeks later after coaching) is equally unreliable.

 

That admission would then require a full investigation by some sort of independent prosecutor in many cases whose job it is to filter through conflicting testimony to come up with a narrative for what they believe happened based on the available evidence. That would be a much more troublesome situation than assuming the officer's testimony must be correct as is typically done.

[EvilMonkey]

Unless I misread, you asked specifically if we apply the same standard of "witnesses being unreliable" to the cases where African Americans wind up dead while unarmed. My response is...yes we do.

 

The problem is we apply that to the police officers and to the other witnesses too, whereas the people who want to justify killing whoever was killed cannot apply that standard to the police officer because then they'd have to admit that the police officer's testimony (given weeks later after coaching) is equally unreliable.

 

That admission would then require a full investigation by some sort of independent prosecutor in many cases whose job it is to filter through conflicting testimony to come up with a narrative for what they believe happened based on the available evidence. That would be a much more troublesome situation than assuming the officer's testimony must be correct as is typically done.

I said the people who lied should be named. You seem to want to be charitable in this case and assume that they just made a mistake. Eyewitness testimony is for sure unreliable when they outright lie. If they STFU about it now that it was shown on video that they were completely wrong, I will let you stick woth your innocent mistake version. However if they continue to try and push a narrative that just isn't supported by the video, then they are lying and deserve any shame, ridicule or whatever comes their way.

[Jenksismyhero]

Unless I misread, you asked specifically if we apply the same standard of "witnesses being unreliable" to the cases where African Americans wind up dead while unarmed. My response is...yes we do.

 

The problem is we apply that to the police officers and to the other witnesses too, whereas the people who want to justify killing whoever was killed cannot apply that standard to the police officer because then they'd have to admit that the police officer's testimony (given weeks later after coaching) is equally unreliable.

 

That admission would then require a full investigation by some sort of independent prosecutor in many cases whose job it is to filter through conflicting testimony to come up with a narrative for what they believe happened based on the available evidence. That would be a much more troublesome situation than assuming the officer's testimony must be correct as is typically done.

 

You don't think that cops have a better memory or a better ability to process memories than normal people? That's their job. They train for it and experience it everyday. Regular people don't.

[Iwritecode]

You don't think that cops have a better memory or a better ability to process memories than normal people?

 

No. They are just as human as us "normal" people.

[Balta1701]

I said the people who lied should be named. You seem to want to be charitable in this case and assume that they just made a mistake. Eyewitness testimony is for sure unreliable when they outright lie. If they STFU about it now that it was shown on video that they were completely wrong, I will let you stick woth your innocent mistake version. However if they continue to try and push a narrative that just isn't supported by the video, then they are lying and deserve any shame, ridicule or whatever comes their way.

Not sure where I said that, you crossing me up with someone else's statement? My first reply on that video was to your specific question as to whether or not we apply that same standard of poor memory among witnesses when it involves a cop shooting an unarmed (black) person.

[Balta1701]

You don't think that cops have a better memory or a better ability to process memories than normal people? That's their job. They train for it and experience it everyday. Regular people don't.

 

 

No. They are just as human as us "normal" people.

Memory actually becomes less reliable in tests during high-stress situations so it might even be that they're less reliable than a randomly chosen witness.