Soxfest Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 03:30 PM) The object is to get the 2016 team to .500. Then 2017 we shoot for the wildcard That is not what dictator KW has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 One of the effects of high Ks is high pitch counts. Can't K a guy on 1 or 2 pitches. And today was high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 04:45 PM) No it's not. It's getting this year's team to around .500. That's a 8-10 game improvement. Then you try to win again next season with a front 3 of Sale, Rodon, and Quintana. They really don't have anyone to trade off of this team anyway. I don't really see much young help coming. Still more likely to add than subtract in my opinion. You have Sale, Rodon and Q in the rotation right now w Shark and Danks. My guess is they move Shark at deadline for an Avi type. Rodon gets shut down in late August and w/o Shark and Rodon down the stretch they finish below .500 ( 5 or 6 games) I think next year w Sale, Q and Rodan we are looking at .500 ish. Now if you tell me Hahn is going to spend big money in FA market then yes next year could be better than .500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 03:30 PM) The object is to get the 2016 team to .500. Then 2017 we shoot for the wildcard Who said that? It's a reasonable objective to me, but if that was the objective you don't trade 4 players for 1 year 2015 rents, you don't spend $4 mill on utility infielders, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 03:50 PM) So if there's no help coming what do they have to trade to make this team 10 games better this year? I didn't mean that. My bad. I just meant the Sox don't have the pieces to trade to acquire young players at this point. Who can they move? Ramirez and Shark? That's about it. I'd be stunned if they traded LaRoche, Melky, Duke, or Robertson. They want to win in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 03:56 PM) I didn't mean that. My bad. I just meant the Sox don't have the pieces to trade to acquire young players at this point. Who can they move? Ramirez and Shark? That's about it. I'd be stunned if they traded LaRoche, Melky, Duke, or Robertson. They want to win in 2016. how are they going to get players to win in 2016 if they don't want to trade anyone? The first 3 won't bring much; if someone wants to send elite talent for Robertson, by all means bring it on. On a side note, the Sox gave away 2 more outs today on the basepaths. It adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 04:55 PM) Who said that? It's a reasonable objective to me, but if that was the objective you don't trade 4 players for 1 year 2015 rents, you don't spend $4 mill on utility infielders, etc. I am saying based on where they are right now, barring a big spluge in FA, that is probably where they are headed. I don't see them improving by 10 games next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 04:04 PM) how are they going to get players to win in 2016 if they don't want to trade anyone? The first 3 won't bring much; if someone wants to send elite talent for Robertson, by all means bring it on. On a side note, the Sox gave away 2 more outs today on the basepaths. It adds up. Not sure. They aren't going to trade players that they just signed though. They didn't give up a 2nd round draft pick for Robertson to then trade him immediately. They have a good bullpen. Trading Robertson and Duke makes it so your bullpen is awful again. I'm not even sure they trade Samardzija. Comp pick may be better than the return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 03:55 PM) You have Sale, Rodon and Q in the rotation right now w Shark and Danks. My guess is they move Shark at deadline for an Avi type. Rodon gets shut down in late August and w/o Shark and Rodon down the stretch they finish below .500 ( 5 or 6 games) I think next year w Sale, Q and Rodan we are looking at .500 ish. Now if you tell me Hahn is going to spend big money in FA market then yes next year could be better than .500 They can't spend big next year though really nor should they. Shrewd signings and trades. They can't make a habit of giving up draft picks to sign free agents. I wouldn't sign anyone with a qualifying offer attached. They desperately need those 2 1st rounders next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:17 PM) Not sure. They aren't going to trade players that they just signed though. They didn't give up a 2nd round draft pick for Robertson to then trade him immediately. They have a good bullpen. Trading Robertson and Duke makes it so your bullpen is awful again. I'm not even sure they trade Samardzija. Comp pick may be better than the return. Again, they have to trade someone valuable to acquire multiple young players. Maybe Johnson by next year can play 2nd which would be major in that you filled internally . But you still have holes at catcher, 3B, SP and probably SS. Now if the FO is convinced Fullmer is the real thing, I trade Q and try and get a catcher and infielder. I trade Shark at the deadline this year and try and get a 3B back. If Shark and Q returned a catcher, SS and 3B, Johnson played 2nd and Fullmer took Q's spot that would be a solid step in the right direction. That still leaves a hole for 4th starter assuming Danks is the 5. My fear is Q may not bring back 2 ML ready players realizing we need SS and Catcher which are hard to find. Instead maybe he brings one and a #4 type starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:19 PM) They can't spend big next year though really nor should they. Shrewd signings and trades. They can't make a habit of giving up draft picks to sign free agents. I wouldn't sign anyone with a qualifying offer attached. They desperately need those 2 1st rounders next year. shrewd signings is still going to involve spending money. according to the FO, do they have that money to spend? name which players you would trade??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:34 PM) Again, they have to trade someone valuable to acquire multiple young players. Maybe Johnson by next year can play 2nd which would be major in that you filled internally . But you still have holes at catcher, 3B, SP and probably SS. Now if the FO is convinced Fullmer is the real thing, I trade Q and try and get a catcher and infielder. I trade Shark at the deadline this year and try and get a 3B back. If Shark and Q returned a catcher, SS and 3B, Johnson played 2nd and Fullmer took Q's spot that would be a solid step in the right direction. That still leaves a hole for 4th starter assuming Danks is the 5. My fear is Q may not bring back 2 ML ready players realizing we need SS and Catcher which are hard to find. Instead maybe he brings one and a #4 type starter. i agree. either way, Shark is gone, now the question is what will the other team offer if he was traded. sure the sox can make a wish list, but the other team needs to pay.... if not, comp pick. that leave by your scenario and mine, Q. again, what will the other team bid?? now, if he is avail sooner, the price may even be more. that other teams know what the sox have and what they really need. i don't really seeing them really helping. and there is no positional help coming from the minor league, i really hope they don't rush Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Eric Byrnes just said on MLB Network that the Sox are the biggest disappointment this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 04:34 PM) Again, they have to trade someone valuable to acquire multiple young players. Maybe Johnson by next year can play 2nd which would be major in that you filled internally . But you still have holes at catcher, 3B, SP and probably SS. Now if the FO is convinced Fullmer is the real thing, I trade Q and try and get a catcher and infielder. I trade Shark at the deadline this year and try and get a 3B back. If Shark and Q returned a catcher, SS and 3B, Johnson played 2nd and Fullmer took Q's spot that would be a solid step in the right direction. That still leaves a hole for 4th starter assuming Danks is the 5. My fear is Q may not bring back 2 ML ready players realizing we need SS and Catcher which are hard to find. Instead maybe he brings one and a #4 type starter. They better be getting a hell of a lot more than that to trade Quintana. Q was worth 5.3 fWAR last year. He's already accumulated over a win this season and he's signed to a bargain of a contract. I don't really understand why people are insistent on dealing him for less than he's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 04:54 PM) Eric Byrnes just said on MLB Network that the Sox are the biggest disappointment this season. I think it's probably Seattle but White Sox are definitely in the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 nobody is a bigger sale fan than I am but moving him has to at least be in the discussion hes the type of guy you could refresh half the starting lineup with in trade returns other than kershaw hes probably the most valuable SP trade piece in baseball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 09:54 PM) Eric Byrnes just said on MLB Network that the Sox are the biggest disappointment this season. this may come out really snarky and i am not meaning it to. but no fvvcking shiiite. we as fans has to endure this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 09:55 PM) They better be getting a hell of a lot more than that to trade Quintana. Q was worth 5.3 fWAR last year. He's already accumulated over a win this season and he's signed to a bargain of a contract. I don't really understand why people are insistent on dealing him for less than he's worth. again no offense but it takes 2 to tango and many teams do not really want to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Real @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:01 PM) nobody is a bigger sale fan than I am but moving him has to at least be in the discussion hes the type of guy you could refresh half the starting lineup with in trade returns other than kershaw hes probably the most valuable SP trade piece in baseball i am with you. in the right trade, with the right team, the sox can get back a 3b, a cat and a top line rp in the minors for next yr moving up. flip the rp with a sp in the minors for a sp and a cat. this is my fantasy at being a gm that i thought of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:07 PM) i am with you. in the right trade, with the right team, the sox can get back a 3b, a cat and a top line rp in the minors for next yr moving up. flip the rp with a sp in the minors for a sp and a cat. this is my fantasy at being a gm that i thought of. id be on the phone with STL like yesterday Edited June 14, 2015 by Real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 im sure the sox already know what teams would give up for him tho they probably get calls on a regular basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Real @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:10 PM) im sure the sox already know what teams would give up for him tho they probably get calls on a regular basis yeah you are right about that for me it will be in this order Hou, La dodgers i think cincy sfo will have the pit and 3b but no cat tor ... i just am not sold on their later prospects i do really like their catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Real @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:09 PM) id be on the phone with STL like yesterday Just to gauge your thought process here: What would the Sox receive from STL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:31 PM) Just to gauge your thought process here: What would the Sox receive from STL? dunno I see people talk up their farm system a lot and theyre always successful every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Real @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:58 PM) dunno I see people talk up their farm system a lot and theyre always successful every year Sale should be untouchable. He is the franchise right now. Also forget farm system. When you are looking to trade a stud player-say Q, you want ML players not ML ready AAA players. The Sox cannot gamble on minor league prospects to turn this around. Now with Shark, you may have to take a AAA ML ready player since he is a rental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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