southsider2k5 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:22 PM) "A couple months of bad baseball" = 2 months of better than .500 baseball since August of 2012. "A couple" = 14. Still. And I am supposed to believe that Sox fans could handle being bad until next decade at least? LMAO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:59 PM) The Sox can not do the Cubs did, the fanbase won't allow it. They've tolerated 7 straight seasons of missing the playoffs and 4 seasons under .500 in their last 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:23 PM) They've tolerated 7 straight seasons of missing the playoffs and 4 seasons under .500 in their last 5. No they haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 07:23 PM) Still. And I am supposed to believe that Sox fans could handle being bad until next decade at least? LMAO. I see no reason to expect anything else as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:24 PM) I see no reason to expect anything else as it is. I expected to hear nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 no one really hasn't mention this, in the right way. Sale is a #1 sp, a front of the rotation guy. sox trade him..... who will be that #1 and pls don't insult this post by mentioning Rodon, he hasn't proven squat. so with the starting rotation, who is the #1, Q, Shark for now, Rodon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:59 PM) The Sox can not do the Cubs did, the fanbase won't allow it. What fan base? The current front office trying to compete every single year has led to bottom 5 attendance. Would anyone even notice if they did what the Cubs did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 12:25 AM) What fan base? The current front office trying to compete every single year has led to bottom 5 attendance. Would anyone even notice if they did what the Cubs did? with the top 2 in the sox org, they will screw it up.... and i am not mentioning Hahn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I have no problem entertaining the idea of trading Sale but until an actual value can somehow be determined I really do not see the point. I would not know where to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:45 PM) I have no problem entertaining the idea of trading Sale but until an actual value can somehow be determined I really do not see the point. I would not know where to begin. It's going to be difficult to trade him and get top value for him. How many teams have two top 25 prospects, which is what it takes to begin the talks? Would Addison Russell, Kyle Schwarber and 1-2 other prospects (at least 1 in the top 100) work? Edited June 14, 2015 by spiderman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:52 PM) It's going to be difficult to trade him and get top value for him. How many teams have two top 25 prospects, which is what it takes to begin the talks? Would Addison Russell, Kyle Schwarber and 1-2 other prospects (at least 1 in the top 100) work? Obviously, it's difficult to see the White Sox making this type of move with the Cubs, but you'd need something along these lines just to start talks and most teams do not have a farm system that comes close to the Cubs. In other words, options are limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 12:45 AM) I have no problem entertaining the idea of trading Sale but until an actual value can somehow be determined I really do not see the point. I would not know where to begin. the value will be determine by what the team trading for, thinks it is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:52 PM) It's going to be difficult to trade him and get top value for him. How many teams have two top 25 prospects, which is what it takes to begin the talks? Would Addison Russell, Kyle Schwarber and 1-2 other prospects (at least 1 in the top 100) work? Sale's value is so high that the return would be unprecedented which makes it incredibly difficult to assess his true "value". That's why I'm hesitant to speculate because the truth is, I have no idea. His value is on a very high pedistal that I sure as hell cannot see. QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:55 PM) the value will be determine by what the team trading for, thinks it is worth. And what the Sox think of the proposed return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 12:04 AM) Sale's value is so high that the return would be unprecedented which makes it incredibly difficult to assess his true "value". That's why I'm hesitant to speculate because the truth is, I have no idea. His value is on a very high pedistal that I sure as hell cannot see. And what the Sox think of the proposed return. very good. the point is, the sox back is up against the wall with no help coming, immediately from the system. the unenviable position the sox have to trade ..... who is the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 So Sale can't be traded. What would the Sox get for quintana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 12:11 AM) So Sale can't be traded. What would the Sox get for quintana? i honestly thought that discussion was done. read the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 07:09 PM) very good. the point is, the sox back is up against the wall with no help coming, immediately from the system. the unenviable position the sox have to trade ..... who is the question. If the Sox end up being non-contenders then what's the rush? Too many problems to be fixed during the season for a non-contender. That's why I keep saying, patience. Edited June 15, 2015 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 08:45 PM) If the Sox end up being non-contenders then what's the rush? Too many problems to be fixed during the season for a non-contender. That's why I keep saying, patience. They showed no patience last offseason and that's set us back at least a year, maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 12:45 AM) If the Sox end up being non-contenders then what's the rush? Too many problems to be fixed during the season for a non-contender. That's why I keep saying, patience. b/c if the trade rt is the option, the teams in the hunt of the playoff, will need that arm. that arm to help in the long run of the playoff. that is why i am saying, if this is an option the sox needs to go, then do it early where the rtn may be more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:01 AM) They showed no patience last offseason and that's set us back at least a year, maybe more. oh we will disagree on this one. the sox didn't finish the job that was started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:11 PM) oh we will disagree on this one. the sox didn't finish the job that was started. They didn't have the money to. That's only part of the problem, they spent about all they could and the end result was they had to just go with several positions, guys like Gillaspie and Flowers with no major upgrades. And then on top of that, they did a terrible job with the people they picked (Melky, Samardzija). If they didn't have the money to pull together a legit competitive roster, that makes spending everything you had and trading away cost-controlled players for soon-to-be FA's a set of very large mistakes. They didn't have enough money to build a full roster through FA but decided to dump everything into winning now anyway. That's a complete lack of patience to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 09:01 PM) They showed no patience last offseason and that's set us back at least a year, maybe more. Unfortunately I was one of those converts last winter. I went into the off season expecting another rebuild year and drafting more talent but in the end I bought into the idea of FA and hoping that would enough to keep the Sox in contentention. Sadly, FA has not paid off so far. In the end I think the Sox have little choice but to pull some kind of rabbit out of their hat and likely will be a name people will not want to see go. And that's baseball. I was going to comment on the Q thread but didn't want to derail it with Sale. Call me crazy but if the point is maximum return, you trade Sale and keep Q. Q can pass for a #1 in 2016 with Rodon #2. It's quite possible that Montas, Danish and Fulmer need the 2016 season for their development to have them ready for 2017. If it's a 2016 rebuild season there would be no rush for those three at all, just keep them healthy and building up those innings in the minors, hopefully Charlotte. I still prefer to keep Sale, Q and Rodon intact but I admit some talent might have to be traded to fill some holes at 3B, C, SS? 2B?. I think I'd rather trade Abreu than Sale to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 i will always disagree with the money and profit of the sox, i will not debate that, i will say they have the money. however lets look at this way. with regards of salary and finishing the job. fix the team which included a cat and infielder, add a 1 or 2 fa pitcher to the mix. the cat via trade and trading a asset to get it done, get a fa 3b. overall the sox will be in the negative .... i understand that, the northsider outfield wall was getting fixed, put the product on the field. the sox will lose money this first yr, while bringing the fans back and maybe looking at a playoff run. the sox have the mlb draft and int't draft.... break the bank on the int'l draft. what ever the faith the baseball gods has in store for the sox, come at the end of the season is done. 2016 > more fans, more revenue, more season tickets sold, the farm system is 1 yr older and may start looking to start producing, players salary can be dealt with in the offseason of a successful 2015 campaign. i said pretty much the same thing during the off season, i still haven't change my position, instead, the sox got Beckham, Soto Penny and Drabek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 09:17 PM) They didn't have the money to. That's only part of the problem, they spent about all they could and the end result was they had to just go with several positions, guys like Gillaspie and Flowers with no major upgrades. And then on top of that, they did a terrible job with the people they picked (Melky, Samardzija). If they didn't have the money to pull together a legit competitive roster, that makes spending everything you had and trading away cost-controlled players for soon-to-be FA's a set of very large mistakes. They didn't have enough money to build a full roster through FA but decided to dump everything into winning now anyway. That's a complete lack of patience to me. I agree with you and at the time I wasn't on the "go for it" bandwagon...not only were there remaining holes, but the bench was terrible (although somehow they scraped up $4 mill for a utility player) and there was zero room for error...some players will have bad years, and you need some backup if they do. And they missed some opportunities. Pitt got Cervelli for a bullpen pitcher, e.g. That said, they COULD get out of this fairly cheaply losing, essentially, 1 year, but marginal resources. They didn't trade anyone overly compelling for Shark, and they can trade him at the deadline (and they should - they can get something much better than a comp pick). They could dump Laroche tomorrow if they wanted to...they wouldn't get much, but they could move him. They might be able to trade Robertson and get some value...although the length of his contract makes that problematic. Melky is really the loss and the cost. All is not lost, except for 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (spiderman @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:35 PM) On the other hand, I'd say, if the White Sox management truly believes this team is underachieving, they should trade for Cole Hamels tomorrow. Gosh, NO! No Cole Hamels ... ever! QUOTE (spiderman @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:45 PM) Can't make moves based on the 15K fans who show up at games. If the White Sox could trade Quintana, Sale and Abreu, and get back 4-5 top 25 minor league prospects, plus 2-3 others in the top 100, is that enough? Turn into the Cubs pretty much for 3 years, and have a crazy minor league system. I wouldn't trade Sale or Abreu. Why can't Sox do what I've been advocating for a month? Trade everybody not named Sale, Abreu, Avisail? Or at least trade Melky, Shark, Robertson, Lexi, LaRoche, Duke. I guarantee you Hahn could get a ton of players for these guys. Get the right players and we might have something to look forward to next year. I think the Royals actually might take Melky after the Rios fiasco. We get Colon in a deal for Melky and Beckham or Soto and maybe we're off and running. Edited June 15, 2015 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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