Could the Sox get proper value in trading Sale?

[LDF]

Or you never get to the World Series with your new star pitcher, and you gave away all your young guys for him.

 

Lots of ways the trade would be risky for all parties and that's why it won't happen, certainly not within the next few years.

 

think about it, the team they have has a chance to get there, i am talking about players that is or are in the minor system. they will not affect the parent club in making the ws. plus i am talking about a young pitcher, i am not talking about a pitcher who is 32+yrs old.

[LDF]

After the 2015 f*** up...if I were the GM no I wouldn't because of all the reasons you guys just gave but it would be the correct move for the franchise. And that's a big problem too.

 

esp if that team is close to the ws and is need of a #1 rotation type pitcher, hell yeah,.

 

there is no guarantee that the team will make this run again. in addition, la systems is deep. a good investment,.

[Y2Jimmy0]

After the 2015 f*** up...if I were the GM no I wouldn't because of all the reasons you guys just gave but it would be the correct move for the franchise. And that's a big problem too.

 

 

Okay I get what you mean. Realistically, if they could get the kind of haul that he's "worth", I'm with you. That's just not going to happen. This is why I disagree with you on the Quintana thing too. He's a very underrated pitcher and I just don't think they'd acquire what he's worth. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[LDF]

Okay I get what you mean. Realistically, if they could get the kind of haul that he's "worth", I'm with you. That's just not going to happen. This is why I disagree with you on the Quintana thing too. He's a very underrated pitcher and I just don't think they'd acquire what he's worth. Maybe I'm wrong though.

 

nice thinking though

 

lets use the blackhawks. they gave draft picks for who they thought they need for the cup. i will not debate whether it help or not.

 

but the hawks won the cup. and still has a full system of prospects.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Okay I get what you mean. Realistically, if they could get the kind of haul that he's "worth", I'm with you. That's just not going to happen. This is why I disagree with you on the Quintana thing too. He's a very underrated pitcher and I just don't think they'd acquire what he's worth. Maybe I'm wrong though.

On this one I think the prevalence of advanced stats will help. You could make a case to me that trading Quintana, holding Sale, developing Rodon and the kid we just drafted, and clearing as much payroll as we can could set us up for 2017 even though I'd be skeptical given our typical development and trade history. But personally, I'm beyond that, I think they're set up for a lost decade barring a major overhaul in everything, from players to organization to decision making.

[shysocks]

think about it, the team they have has a chance to get there, i am talking about players that is or are in the minor system. they will not affect the parent club in making the ws. plus i am talking about a young pitcher, i am not talking about a pitcher who is 32+yrs old.

But those guys aren't going to get you Chris Sale. As a fan, would you be excited if the Sox got a bunch of minor leaguers back for him? I wouldn't and neither would Rick Hahn. You need one or more guys who are excelling in MLB because that's how much Sale's contract and track record are worth.

[Y2Jimmy0]

On this one I think the prevalence of advanced stats will help. You could make a case to me that trading Quintana, holding Sale, developing Rodon and the kid we just drafted, and clearing as much payroll as we can could set us up for 2017 even though I'd be skeptical given our typical development and trade history. But personally, I'm beyond that, I think they're set up for a lost decade barring a major overhaul in everything, from players to organization to decision making.

 

 

On a side note, how miserable was Monday/Tuesday? PNC Park is my favorite in baseball but man that had to suck.

[Balta1701]

On a side note, how miserable was Monday/Tuesday? PNC Park is my favorite in baseball but man that had to suck.

I went into them expecting the white sox to lose and was just enjoying the view and asking Abreu to homer. I got myself into "Sammy Sosa playing with the Cubs in the 90s" mode and wasn't all that disappointed, just enjoyed the experience.

[LDF]

But those guys aren't going to get you Chris Sale. As a fan, would you be excited if the Sox got a bunch of minor leaguers back for him? I wouldn't and neither would Rick Hahn. You need one or more guys who are excelling in MLB because that's how much Sale's contract and track record are worth.

 

and you know this how???

[OmarComing25]

and you know this how???

Because Sale is a top 3 pitcher in a baseball and has a very team friendly contract, probably a top 3 contract in baseball as well. He's also only 26 years old and left-handed, and is under team control for 5 seasons including this one. You don't trade that for unproven minor leaguers, I don't care if they're all top 10 on BA's hot list. You need to get some proven major league talent for that kind of value, and at that point it becomes too much for other teams to give up.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Trading sale to the Cubs is crazy. Trading him period is crazy. But the conversation would begin with Kris Bryant.

[LDF]

Because Sale is a top 3 pitcher in a baseball and has a very team friendly contract, probably a top 3 contract in baseball as well. He's also only 26 years old and left-handed, and is under team control for 5 seasons including this one. You don't trade that for unproven minor leaguers, I don't care if they're all top 10 on BA's hot list. You need to get some proven major league talent for that kind of value, and at that point it becomes too much for other teams to give up.

 

and the main point on this, this is a fantasy trade, so how do we know what the GM's involve will want or can get.

 

no one. there is no right answer.

[shysocks]

and you know this how???

Because minor league players aren't fair value for Sale, it's just a fact. The talent combined with the contract make him a rare asset, and if you want him, your MLB team is gonna have to be involved. There aren't any more ways I can say it.

 

[LDF]

Because minor league players aren't fair value for Sale, it's just a fact. The talent combined with the contract make him a rare asset, and if you want him, your MLB team is gonna have to be involved. There aren't any more ways I can say it.

and i disagree..... There aren't any more ways I can say it.

[Balta1701]

Because minor league players aren't fair value for Sale, it's just a fact. The talent combined with the contract make him a rare asset, and if you want him, your MLB team is gonna have to be involved. There aren't any more ways I can say it.

 

 

and i disagree..... There aren't any more ways I can say it.

Under normal circumstances (i.e. 2014) I would totally agree with Shys.

 

It's no longer normal circumstances. We're now staring over an abyss, that makes more drastic responses something we need to consider.

[shysocks]

Under normal circumstances (i.e. 2014) I would totally agree with Shys.

 

It's no longer normal circumstances. We're now staring over an abyss, that makes more drastic responses something we need to consider.

And those responses include trading Sale for less than he's worth? Because nobody can give you what he's worth.

[royoung]

The "trading Sale" threads are a sign that this season has reached a depressing low point.

 

It will be very interesting to see how Hahn proceeds this deadline. The entire point of adding Robertson/Melky/Shark this off-season was to supplement the core of Sale and Abreu while they are in their primes. Trading away starting pieces basically destroys that notion and takes the Sox back to square one. Honestly it would pretty much fly in the face of everything Hahn has been doing the past 2-3 years even if it might be the most prudent move.

[Balta1701]

And those responses include trading Sale for less than he's worth? Because nobody can give you what he's worth.

I'm at that point.

 

What good is Chris Sale to us if he's just going to put up ERA's in the mid-2s for the next 3 years on a losing team? We spent the offseason saying "We can't waste Sale's good years like this". We're doing exactly that! We are now on a direct path to wasting them.

 

Show me a way to put together a competitive team out of this mess and I'll stop thinking that, but if I'm now at the point where "This team looks like a debacle for years to come", what exactly is the point of having Sale for 2-3 years on that debacle?

[Chisoxfn]

Everyone on the Score was talking about trading SAle today. They are all so misinformed.. There are a handful of teams that could even get it done and those teams wouldn't give what would be required. Such a dumb topic. It'd be like the biggest haul in history with the contract he has.

A package built around Russell and Schwarber would be an extremely tantalizing starting point. However, Dodgers could offer the best package (if they wanted). A package built around Puig, Seager, Urias and Guerrero would be a total homerun. Presume Dodgers wouldn't do it, but I'd be all over it.

[kitekrazy]

I'm at that point.

 

What good is Chris Sale to us if he's just going to put up ERA's in the mid-2s for the next 3 years on a losing team? We spent the offseason saying "We can't waste Sale's good years like this". We're doing exactly that! We are now on a direct path to wasting them.

Show me a way to put together a competitive team out of this mess and I'll stop thinking that, but if I'm now at the point where "This team looks like a debacle for years to come", what exactly is the point of having Sale for 2-3 years on that debacle?

 

I can't understand the reality behind this. This is player who always gives you a better chance of winning. Seriously I can't find logic in this.

 

[shysocks]

I'm at that point.

 

What good is Chris Sale to us if he's just going to put up ERA's in the mid-2s for the next 3 years on a losing team? We spent the offseason saying "We can't waste Sale's good years like this". We're doing exactly that! We are now on a direct path to wasting them.

 

Show me a way to put together a competitive team out of this mess and I'll stop thinking that, but if I'm now at the point where "This team looks like a debacle for years to come", what exactly is the point of having Sale for 2-3 years on that debacle?

You're the one advocating, by admission, a sub-optimal move. The burden of proof isn't on me to tell you why it's a bad idea and give an alternative, but my alternative would start with not trading Sale.

 

To the bolded, if you have a debacle, there's are all kinds of value in not turning it into a worse debacle.

[LDF]

Under normal circumstances (i.e. 2014) I would totally agree with Shys.

 

It's no longer normal circumstances. We're now staring over an abyss, that makes more drastic responses something we need to consider.

 

i normally won't disagree with posters opinions trying to have them change their opinions.

 

however pls understand that no one has all the answers and there is some that will not be answered, b/c only the sox FO has the answers, we as fans are not privy to the FO.

 

now for my pov on the la dodgers, their #1,2,3 are as good to close to the majors and are projected to develop into something special. i will stop there of this half. the other part of that discussion is that the experience and success that Sale has accomplished, now no one will be able to replace that.. but that is what that team wants and to pay to get.

 

if they had it, do you think they will be trading to acquire it??

[OmarComing25]

You're the one advocating, by admission, a sub-optimal move. The burden of proof isn't on me to tell you why it's a bad idea and give an alternative, but my alternative would start with not trading Sale.

 

To the bolded, if you have a debacle, there's are all kinds of value in not turning it into a worse debacle.

Exactly, and trading Sale for prospects could easily turn this into a worse debacle.

 

As a comment I saw on reddit stated: "I'd rather have a guaranteed yearly Cy Young candidate than gamble on 5 top prospects - which could yield f***-all and could realistically end up yielding a group that develops into a decent position player, a 4th starter, a solid reliever and a 4th OF - a nice package but hardly worth a guy like Sale."

Edited June 18, 2015 by OmarComing25

[Chisoxfn]

Exactly, and trading Sale for prospects could easily turn this into a worse debacle.

 

As a comment I saw on reddit stated: "I'd rather have a guaranteed yearly Cy Young candidate than gamble on 5 top prospects - which could yield f***-all and could realistically end up yielding a group that develops into a decent position player, a 4th starter, a solid reliever and a 4th OF - a nice package but hardly worth a guy like Sale."

Why not a combination of young players with upside (with MLB success) and top prospects. Like I mentioned, a package built around Puig and top prospects could be extremely tantalizing. I presume Dodgers would not want to give up Puig plus 2 top prospects and I wouldn't blame them, but they have the outfield depth and a rotation with Kershaw / Greinke / Sale would be ludicrous when healthy.

[LDF]

Exactly, and trading Sale for prospects could easily turn this into a worse debacle.

 

As a comment I saw on reddit stated: "I'd rather have a guaranteed yearly Cy Young candidate than gamble on 5 top prospects - which could yield f***-all and could realistically end up yielding a group that develops into a decent position player, a 4th starter, a solid reliever and a 4th OF - a nice package but hardly worth a guy like Sale."

 

and i disagree, by making smarts moves to help a org in a hole that they have, in this case, getting prospects who can help the big club.

 

in this situation, it is trading, this is an idea, Sale can do it, or Q....