Could the Sox get proper value in trading Sale?

[BlackSox13]

Astros don't have near the prospects to even start a conversation for Sale.

Which is why I specified talent and not prospects.

 

If the Astros asked about Sale, the price would start with Correra and McCullers and go on from there.

 

Bingo!

 

I do admit that it's likely the Astros look for a Samardzija/Leake type so they don't have to part with the likes of Correa, McCullers or Velasquez.

 

Its easy to say trade Sale but its a different story when trying to figure out his real value. In the end he means more to the Sox due to the crazy haul it would take to get Sale.

Edited June 15, 2015 by BlackSox13

[Dick Allen]

And now he has the worst ISO in all of baseball. From 80th place last year in all of baseball to dead last.

He has hit into a lot of bad luck, and has been bad when not doing that. It happens. To think he has nothing left and the numbers he has now is basically his ceiling is something the people certain of this will never actually put money on.

[fathom]

He has hit into a lot of bad luck, and has been bad when not doing that. It happens. To think he has nothing left and the numbers he has now is basically his ceiling is something the people certain of this will never actually put money on.

 

Yes, he's absolutely hit a lot of line drives right at the outfielder. My concern is that he lacks the power to get it over the outfielder's head consistently now, which is resulting in so many hard hit outs. In the past, maybe those would have left the yard/hit the fence. He doesn't seem to pull the ball in the air very often.

 

With all the concerns we've mentioned, I think we can all agree his swing from the right side is completely broken.

[Balta1701]

He has hit into a lot of bad luck, and has been bad when not doing that. It happens. To think he has nothing left and the numbers he has now is basically his ceiling is something the people certain of this will never actually put money on.

How long does he have to be this bad before we use that term? 4 months? 6?

 

How much money would you like to put on him being worth 4+ fWAR over his full contract, which would be a significant overpay for that production level?

[Dick Allen]

How long does he have to be this bad before we use that term? 4 months? 6?

 

How much money would you like to put on him being worth 4+ fWAR over his full contract, which would be a significant overpay for that production level?

As long as there is no big DL stint, I'd put a lot of money on that. Of course, your previous posts suggest he will never even be replacement level again.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Dick Allen

[fathom]

Anyone have the data on the distance of the average fly ball Melky hit the last few years compared to this season?

 

To answer my own question, it doesn't look like there's a significant difference from Melky's average fly ball distance over the last two years (according to Baseball Heat Map)

[ChiSox59]

As long as there is no big DL stint, I'd put a lot of money on that. Of course, your previous posts suggest he will never even be replacement level again.

 

Me too. He put up 12.1 WAR the previous four seasons, and that includes a -.1 WAR season in 2013. He can be less than half the player he was those four seasons, and still be a 4.0 WAR player over the course of his time with the SOX. But go ahead, jump off the bridge!!

Edited June 15, 2015 by ChiSox59

[southsider2k5]

Melky was busted for PEDs in 2012. He had 1000 plate appearances after getting caught in which he put up an OPS + of 119. It's not the roids.

 

That's how I feel as well. People keep saying that, but unless he has the audacity to keep juicing even after a positive test, that s*** is long out of his system, and has been for a while.

[Baron]

Nothing like selling off our best player and everyone else to get this Sox Board warmed up.

[Eminor3rd]

How long does he have to be this bad before we use that term? 4 months? 6?

 

How much money would you like to put on him being worth 4+ fWAR over his full contract, which would be a significant overpay for that production level?

 

Melky Cabrera is not a true-talent 52 wRC+ hitter.

[Balta1701]

Melky Cabrera is not a true-talent 52 wRC+ hitter.

In his 3 pre Steroid seasons he was 68, 94, 77.

[caulfield12]

In his 3 pre Steroid seasons he was 68, 94, 77.

 

 

So he's essentially an 80 who has already peaked and should be on the downturn of his career from an athletic standpoint, especially taking into consideration the physical early onset of physical deterioration that PED's usage can cause.

 

So 70-80 is certainly a predictable or expected range.

 

At least this one isn't as surprising as Dunn in 2011, although there were indicators the final 2-3 months of 2010 with Adam as well.

Edited June 16, 2015 by caulfield12

[Doc Edwards Shot]

This thread is stupid. Sale isn't going anywhere with how good and cheap he is, not to mention the fact that he is probably the best White Sox pitcher we've had in decades.

 

Nope, they're going to hold onto him for the time being and try to fill in pieces around him. You don't trade everything away just because you fell out of contention one season.

[Eminor3rd]

In his 3 pre Steroid seasons he was 68, 94, 77.

 

Evidence to support my claim.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Eminor3rd

[GGajewski18]

http://sportsmockery.com/2015/06/chicago-c...for-chris-sale/

 

I know it's Sports Mockery, but look at the trade proposals they suggested lmao.

[Balta1701]

http://sportsmockery.com/2015/06/chicago-c...for-chris-sale/

 

I know it's Sports Mockery, but look at the trade proposals they suggested lmao.

The Cubs know the name that would get us interested and it's the name they're not moving.

[fathom]

Cubs as a trade partner for Sale was all over the Score today. Funny hearing packages not including Bryant or Russell. For the record, I would trade Sale for Russell, Schwarber, Torres and Underwood

[Quin]

The Cubs know the name that would get us interested and it's the name they're not moving.

 

RICK HAHN'S CELLPHONE

 

Incoming call from Theo Epstein

 

Theo: "Hey Rick, so, we want to talk Chris Sale. How's Almora and Vogelbach sound?"

 

Hahn: "Theo, Almora and Russell could maybe get you Jose Quintana if I'm in a good mood."

 

Theo: "Alright, what if I give you Vogelbach and Baez for Quintana? Kind of the same thing!"

 

Hangs up

 

You have one unopened voicemail

 

"Hey Rick, must have lost you. This Windy City weather can be nuts, right? Ok. So what if I give you Almora, Russell, Vogelbach and Baez for Sale and Quintana?"

 

You have two unopened voicemails

 

"Hey Rick. Me again. What if I give you Edwards, Baez and Russell for Sale?"

 

You have three unopened voicemails

 

"Rick, man, the service where you're at must be terrible. Ok. Russell, Baez, Edwards and Schwarber for Sale? Great deal for you, hell you're winning this deal!"

 

You have four unopened voicemails

 

"Rick, it's me, Kenny. Don't trade with Theo. He keeps calling me pretending to be an insurance company before suddenly wanting to give me a huge SALE at a discounted price of Russell, Baez, Edwards and Schwarber."

 

Rick Hahn listens to all voicemails

 

Calling "Northside Asshat"

 

"Ok Theo, you want to talk Sale, let's talk Sale. Bryant, Russell, Almora, Edwards and Schwarber. I'll even give you John Danks, it's supposed to be easy for pitchers to go AL to NL, right?"

 

"Rick, that's just too much risk. What if Sale gets hurt and I'm stuck with his massive contract?"

 

Hangs up

 

You have one unopened voicemail

 

"Screw you Rick. Jed was ready to give me Rizzo for Archer when he was with the Padres, why can't you be a normal GM and play along?"

[LDF]

RICK HAHN'S CELLPHONE

 

Incoming call from Theo Epstein

 

Theo: "Hey Rick, so, we want to talk Chris Sale. How's Almora and Vogelbach sound?"

 

Hahn: "Theo, Almora and Russell could maybe get you Jose Quintana if I'm in a good mood."

 

Theo: "Alright, what if I give you Vogelbach and Baez for Quintana? Kind of the same thing!"

 

Hangs up

 

You have one unopened voicemail

 

"Hey Rick, must have lost you. This Windy City weather can be nuts, right? Ok. So what if I give you Almora, Russell, Vogelbach and Baez for Sale and Quintana?"

 

You have two unopened voicemails

 

"Hey Rick. Me again. What if I give you Edwards, Baez and Russell for Sale?"

 

You have three unopened voicemails

 

"Rick, man, the service where you're at must be terrible. Ok. Russell, Baez, Edwards and Schwarber for Sale? Great deal for you, hell you're winning this deal!"

 

You have four unopened voicemails

 

"Rick, it's me, Kenny. Don't trade with Theo. He keeps calling me pretending to be an insurance company before suddenly wanting to give me a huge SALE at a discounted price of Russell, Baez, Edwards and Schwarber."

 

Rick Hahn listens to all voicemails

 

Calling "Northside Asshat"

 

"Ok Theo, you want to talk Sale, let's talk Sale. Bryant, Russell, Almora, Edwards and Schwarber. I'll even give you John Danks, it's supposed to be easy for pitchers to go AL to NL, right?"

 

"Rick, that's just too much risk. What if Sale gets hurt and I'm stuck with his massive contract?"

 

Hangs up

 

You have one unopened voicemail

 

"Screw you Rick. Jed was ready to give me Rizzo for Archer when he was with the Padres, why can't you be a normal GM and play along?"

 

oh man, that is extremely funny and extremely creative

 

many

[Y2Jimmy0]

Everyone on the Score was talking about trading SAle today. They are all so misinformed.. There are a handful of teams that could even get it done and those teams wouldn't give what would be required. Such a dumb topic. It'd be like the biggest haul in history with the contract he has.

[BlackSox13]

I doubt there's a team willing to take that kind of hit to their farm. If Sale was to be traded, it would likely be a three team deal.

 

I understand the premise behind the idea of trading Sale, just do not see it happening.

 

JR is 79 and wants to see another winner so I'd guess the rebuild on the fly theme stays par for the course. I suppose if I were in his shoes I'd feel the same way. If I were a 79 year old baseball team owner I probably would not have much interest in taking the time necessary to rebuild the farm, right.

 

As a fan, I would rather make some trades and get some hitting talent into the system but as long as the Sox keep what few assets they have, it will be the same as it ever was.

 

 

[LDF]

I doubt there's a team willing to take that kind of hit to their farm. If Sale was to be traded, it would likely be a three team deal.

 

I understand the premise behind the idea of trading Sale, just do not see it happening.

 

JR is 79 and wants to see another winner so I'd guess the rebuild on the fly theme stays par for the course. I suppose if I were in his shoes I'd feel the same way. If I were a 79 year old baseball team owner I probably would not have much interest in taking the time necessary to rebuild the farm, right.

 

As a fan, I would rather make some trades and get some hitting talent into the system but as long as the Sox keep what few assets they have, it will be the same as it ever was.

 

nice post.

 

btw i am not advocating on trading Sale.

 

but a team who can win the series or have the opinion on their chances in winning the series, will sacrifice to get that extra little something special. in this case it is Sale.

 

a team can rebuild the farm if they traded many key pieces to win.

[BlackSox13]

nice post.

 

btw i am not advocating on trading Sale.

 

but a team who can win the series or have the opinion on their chances in winning the series, will sacrifice to get that extra little something special. in this case it is Sale.

 

a team can rebuild the farm if they traded many key pieces to win.

I know what you're saying, like you, I'm just entertaining the idea. A desperate team could come along but there would be a much bigger market for Sale in the off season when payrolls have opened up and teams are more flexible. Then it would turn into an all out bidding war with the luxury of keeping Sale if the bids are underwhelming. While the Sox are desperate for hitting talent, they are not desperate to give up Sale. He would cost dearly to acquire, lol.

[GreatScott82]

This thread is stupid. Sale isn't going anywhere with how good and cheap he is, not to mention the fact that he is probably the best White Sox pitcher we've had in decades.

 

Nope, they're going to hold onto him for the time being and try to fill in pieces around him. You don't trade everything away just because you fell out of contention one season.

They have been out of contention for three straight seasons with Sale. Obviously he is not the problem, but they simply have issues at just about every other position on the field. If Sale isn't going anywhere great, then you HAVE to to at least explore options for guys like Abreu and Quintana. The White Sox are in a horrible situation. They have no plan set in place, the farm system is not very deep and the coaching staff is awful. This team needs to rebuild. I mentioned in a previous post, if they do it right, we can be good again by 2018 if they approach this thing appropriately and actually have a plan in place.

[Dick Allen]

They have been out of contention for three straight seasons with Sale. Obviously he is not the problem, but they simply have issues at just about every other position on the field. If Sale isn't going anywhere great, then you HAVE to to at least explore options for guys like Abreu and Quintana. The White Sox are in a horrible situation. They have no plan set in place, the farm system is not very deep and the coaching staff is awful. This team needs to rebuild. I mentioned in a previous post, if they do it right, we can be good again by 2018 if they approach this thing appropriately and actually have a plan in place.

The Bulls didn't win for 7 years with Michael Jordan. The Bears didn't win for 10 years with Walter Payton.

 

Trading one of the best pitchers in baseball, cost controlled as he is, to improve your team? About as dumb as it gets, unless you plan to be bad for 4 or 5 years.