Player Development

[oneofthemikes]

What does it say about the organization as a whole when there aren't any players that are even close to breaking into the 2nd worst offense in the league?

 

From a hitting standpoint, the organization basically needs rebuilt from the top down. Anyone that currently has anything to do with hitting instruction should most likely be replaced. I'm sure this sounds pretty "sky is falling" of me, but this is a big problem. It is a sad state of affairs when you have to go back nearly a decade to find a hitter that was groomed by this organization that made it to the majors, stayed in the majors, and made an impact while he was with the team.

[maggsmaggs]

What does it say about the organization as a whole when there aren't any players that are even close to breaking into the 2nd worst offense in the league?

 

From a hitting standpoint, the organization basically needs rebuilt from the top down. Anyone that currently has anything to do with hitting instruction should most likely be replaced. I'm sure this sounds pretty "sky is falling" of me, but this is a big problem. It is a sad state of affairs when you have to go back nearly a decade to find a hitter that was groomed by this organization that made it to the majors, stayed in the majors, and made an impact while he was with the team.

 

It's not. We haven't developed a single hitter of any substance in forever. It's embarrassing and it's the reason this organization will fail to contend for at least the next few years.

[caulfield12]

Eduardo Escobar

Chris Carter

Ryan Sweeney

Brent Morel

Chris Getz

Gordon Beckham

Marcus Semien

Rangel Ravelo (when not injured)

Josh Phegley

Micah Johnson

 

That's about it.

[oneofthemikes]

We can trade away major leaguers for prospects as often as we want to, but if you are bringing those prospects into an organization that isn't teaching them to play baseball the right way, they aren't going to amount to anything. Short of a massive overhaul of the coaching and development staff and a return to solid fundamental baseball (including defense and baserunning as well), I don't see anything changing for the Sox anytime soon.

[LDF]

didn't Hahn just hired some sort of office exec this offseason. i remember posting about how 1 person will doing the same thing Bell is doing but with no title.

[flavum]

Justin Jirschele will fix everything. Newest Sox legacy now hitting coach in Great Falls.

[Chisoxfn]

It's not. We haven't developed a single hitter of any substance in forever. It's embarrassing and it's the reason this organization will fail to contend for at least the next few years.

Or any really good defensive players or smart / heady position players either.

 

[GGajewski18]

Justin Jirschele will fix everything. Newest Sox legacy now hitting coach in Great Falls.

 

I played against him in the D3 Regionals at Wisconsin Whitewater my freshman year when he was a senior. It was really cool to see he was in the Sox organization.

[kitekrazy]

didn't Hahn just hired some sort of office exec this offseason. i remember posting about how 1 person will doing the same thing Bell is doing but with no title.

 

That doesn't sound like something Reinsdorf would do.

 

[Balta1701]

didn't Hahn just hired some sort of office exec this offseason. i remember posting about how 1 person will doing the same thing Bell is doing but with no title.

You don't mean Jim Thome do you?

[LDF]

You don't mean Jim Thome do you?

 

nah, it was something very similar to what B. Bell responsibilities. i remember that i wrote that i didn't care if the old regime like it or not, it was an extra eyes and talent adviser to help the farm.

[Harry Chappas]

How Buddy Bell and Vince Coleman keep their jobs is beyond me.

 

Also Todd Steverson was brought in to change the organizational hitting philosophy. It is worse now than ever. Hell he even has an assistant in Harold Baines.

 

We hear Mark Parent and Joe McEwing will be mangers some day. I really do not see how this is even possible the White Sox show know signs of any time of in gmae organizational philosophy that makes me think, yes they have it going. I remember back when Joe Nossek was there and he could steal the other teams signs often.

[LDF]

How Buddy Bell and Vince Coleman keep their jobs is beyond me.

 

Also Todd Steverson was brought in to change the organizational hitting philosophy. It is worse now than ever. Hell he even has an assistant in Harold Baines.

 

We hear Mark Parent and Joe McEwing will be mangers some day. I really do not see how this is even possible the White Sox show know signs of any time of in gmae organizational philosophy that makes me think, yes they have it going. I remember back when Joe Nossek was there and he could steal the other teams signs often.

 

ahh a fond memory.

 

but how can anyone see with a clear vision of what is truly the problem is.

Edited June 17, 2015 by LDF

[Chisoxfn]

How Buddy Bell and Vince Coleman keep their jobs is beyond me.

 

Also Todd Steverson was brought in to change the organizational hitting philosophy. It is worse now than ever. Hell he even has an assistant in Harold Baines.

 

We hear Mark Parent and Joe McEwing will be mangers some day. I really do not see how this is even possible the White Sox show know signs of any time of in game organizational philosophy that makes me think, yes they have it going. I remember back when Joe Nossek was there and he could steal the other teams signs often.

I think it is hard to say what Steverson's impact to the organizational hitting philosophy is after just a year and a half. With Buddy Bell, I think we have finally seen a long enough era that he sucks as what he does. We've seen absolutely zilch from a position player development side. That isn't to say it is solely because of Bell (could be scouting / drafting wrong players / etc) but reality is our player development on the position side stinks.

[LDF]

I think it is hard to say what Steverson's impact to the organizational hitting philosophy is after just a year and a half. With Buddy Bell, I think we have finally seen a long enough era that he sucks as what he does. We've seen absolutely zilch from a position player development side. That isn't to say it is solely because of Bell (could be scouting / drafting wrong players / etc) but reality is our player development on the position side stinks.

 

i can see what you are saying, but for me, it goes to the drafting of the players.

 

give this system bonafide talent that was drafted and lets see from there.

[Boopa1219]

Jeremy Haber. He was formerly known as assistant to the General Manager and was promoted to Assistant GM. Buddy Bell is also an assistant GM (though a VP as well). Haber has been praised for handling the Todd Steverson hiring process and working hand in hand with Dan Fabian.

 

I want to see Rick Hahn bring in more of his own people into the FO. I like Haber from what I've read, he seems to be another Hahn, in terms of their backgrounds.

 

It's funny that people think of the Sox being a backwards organization, but with guys like Hahn, Fabian and Haber in the org that's not the case.

[LDF]

Jeremy Haber. He was formerly known as assistant to the General Manager and was promoted to Assistant GM. Buddy Bell is also an assistant GM (though a VP as well). Haber has been praised for handling the Todd Steverson hiring process and working hand in hand with Dan Fabian.

 

thanks, that is the one, i am glad someone found it or remember it. i thought i might be going crazy.

[southsider2k5]

Jeremy Haber. He was formerly known as assistant to the General Manager and was promoted to Assistant GM. Buddy Bell is also an assistant GM (though a VP as well). Haber has been praised for handling the Todd Steverson hiring process and working hand in hand with Dan Fabian.

 

Haber, Bell, and Steverson all coming from outside of the organization.

[LDF]

Haber, Bell, and Steverson all coming from outside of the organization.

 

under Hahn's tenure???

[harfman77]

To be fair though, the organization has not made much of an attempt to develop many hitters in the darft since 2010 here are the positions drafted in the first 5 rounds:

 

2015 - 3 Pitchers

2014 - 4 Pitchers - 1 Catcher (Austin)

2013 - 3 Pitchers - 1 SS (Anderson #1), 1 OF (May #13)

2012 - 2 Pitchers - 1 OF (Hawkins #8), 1 1B (Barnum #27), 1 2B (DeMichele), 1 SS Nick Basto

2011 - 4 Pitchers - 1 OF (Walker)

2010 - 5 Pitchers - 1 1B (Wilkins)

 

So 21 pitchers and 9 position players drafted in that time span.

 

Of the trades that have been made, the prospects that they have acquired have been:

 

Samardzjia trade - 1 pitching prospect

Gordon Beckham trade - 1 pitching prospect

ADA trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects

Adam Dunn trade - acquired 1 pitching prospect

Jake Peavy trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects, 1 SS (Rondon #12)

Jesse Crain trade - 1 pitching prospect, 1 3B prospect (Kline)

Matt Thorntom trade - 1 OF prospect (Jacobs)

Addison Reed trade - 1 3B prospect (Davidson #9)

Jason Frasor trade - 2 pitching prospects

Ozzie Guillen trade - 2 pitching prospects , 1 SS prospect (Martinez)

Carlos Quentin trade - 2 pitching prospects

Sergio Santos trade - 1 pitching prospect

Scott Linebrink trade - 1 pitching prospect

 

Thats 16 pitchers and 5 position players in trades in that time as well (not including ML ready players and spring training filler trades - true prospects)

 

In all the Sox have added 37 pitchers to only 14 position players in the last five years in the top of draft or in trades. Of the 14 hitting prospects acquired - Kline, Wilkins, Jacobs, and Martinez are out of the org 6 of the remaining 10 are in the top 30 prospects. Yes guys like Walker and Barnum have been busts but they have made up for it by drafting guys like Michalzeski, Semien, and Johnson in the later rounds.

[LDF]

To be fair though, the organization has not made much of an attempt to develop many hitters in the darft since 2010 here are the positions drafted in the first 5 rounds:

 

2015 - 3 Pitchers

2014 - 4 Pitchers - 1 Catcher (Austin)

2013 - 3 Pitchers - 1 SS (Anderson #1), 1 OF (May #13)

2012 - 2 Pitchers - 1 OF (Hawkins #8), 1 1B (Barnum #27), 1 2B (DeMichele), 1 SS Nick Basto

2011 - 4 Pitchers - 1 OF (Walker)

2010 - 5 Pitchers - 1 1B (Wilkins)

 

So 21 pitchers and 9 position players drafted in that time span.

 

Of the trades that have been made, the prospects that they have acquired have been:

 

Samardzjia trade - 1 pitching prospect

Gordon Beckham trade - 1 pitching prospect

ADA trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects

Adam Dunn trade - acquired 1 pitching prospect

Jake Peavy trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects, 1 SS (Rondon #12)

Jesse Crain trade - 1 pitching prospect, 1 3B prospect (Kline)

Matt Thorntom trade - 1 OF prospect (Jacobs)

Addison Reed trade - 1 3B prospect (Davidson #9)

Jason Frasor trade - 2 pitching prospects

Ozzie Guillen trade - 2 pitching prospects , 1 SS prospect (Martinez)

Carlos Quentin trade - 2 pitching prospects

Sergio Santos trade - 1 pitching prospect

Scott Linebrink trade - 1 pitching prospect

 

Thats 16 pitchers and 5 position players in trades in that time as well (not including ML ready players and spring training filler trades - true prospects)

 

In all the Sox have added 37 pitchers to only 14 position players in the last five years in the top of draft or in trades. Of the 14 hitting prospects acquired - Kline, Wilkins, Jacobs, and Martinez are out of the org 6 of the remaining 10 are in the top 30 prospects. Yes guys like Walker and Barnum have been busts but they have made up for it by drafting guys like Michalzeski, Semien, and Johnson in the later rounds.

 

no matter what, you did alot of hard work getting this.

 

many thanks.

[caulfield12]

To be fair though, the organization has not made much of an attempt to develop many hitters in the darft since 2010 here are the positions drafted in the first 5 rounds:

 

2015 - 3 Pitchers

2014 - 4 Pitchers - 1 Catcher (Austin)

2013 - 3 Pitchers - 1 SS (Anderson #1), 1 OF (May #13)

2012 - 2 Pitchers - 1 OF (Hawkins #8), 1 1B (Barnum #27), 1 2B (DeMichele), 1 SS Nick Basto

2011 - 4 Pitchers - 1 OF (Walker)

2010 - 5 Pitchers - 1 1B (Wilkins)

 

So 21 pitchers and 9 position players drafted in that time span.

 

Of the trades that have been made, the prospects that they have acquired have been:

 

Samardzjia trade - 1 pitching prospect

Gordon Beckham trade - 1 pitching prospect

ADA trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects

Adam Dunn trade - acquired 1 pitching prospect

Jake Peavy trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects, 1 SS (Rondon #12)

Jesse Crain trade - 1 pitching prospect, 1 3B prospect (Kline)

Matt Thorntom trade - 1 OF prospect (Jacobs)

Addison Reed trade - 1 3B prospect (Davidson #9)

Jason Frasor trade - 2 pitching prospects

Ozzie Guillen trade - 2 pitching prospects , 1 SS prospect (Martinez)

Carlos Quentin trade - 2 pitching prospects

Sergio Santos trade - 1 pitching prospect

Scott Linebrink trade - 1 pitching prospect

 

Thats 16 pitchers and 5 position players in trades in that time as well (not including ML ready players and spring training filler trades - true prospects)

 

In all the Sox have added 37 pitchers to only 14 position players in the last five years in the top of draft or in trades. Of the 14 hitting prospects acquired - Kline, Wilkins, Jacobs, and Martinez are out of the org 6 of the remaining 10 are in the top 30 prospects. Yes guys like Walker and Barnum have been busts but they have made up for it by drafting guys like Michalzeski, Semien, and Johnson in the later rounds.

 

 

Except for your last sentence, agreed.

 

For them to truly be making up for anything, they'd have to be doing something (sustainable) at the major league level for the Sox OR be used in KW 2000's style to turn them into Ozzie-approved veterans like Jim Thome, Javy Vasquez or Edwin Jackson.

 

Turning Semien/Phegley/Ravelo/Bassitt (three top 30 guys, and Phegley was one for a long time) into a one-year rental doesn't help much for 2016/17/18 when our core players are all in their collective primes.

Edited June 18, 2015 by caulfield12

[AlSoxfan]

To be fair though, the organization has not made much of an attempt to develop many hitters in the darft since 2010 here are the positions drafted in the first 5 rounds:

 

2015 - 3 Pitchers

2014 - 4 Pitchers - 1 Catcher (Austin)

2013 - 3 Pitchers - 1 SS (Anderson #1), 1 OF (May #13)

2012 - 2 Pitchers - 1 OF (Hawkins #8), 1 1B (Barnum #27), 1 2B (DeMichele), 1 SS Nick Basto

2011 - 4 Pitchers - 1 OF (Walker)

2010 - 5 Pitchers - 1 1B (Wilkins)

 

So 21 pitchers and 9 position players drafted in that time span.

 

Of the trades that have been made, the prospects that they have acquired have been:

 

Samardzjia trade - 1 pitching prospect

Gordon Beckham trade - 1 pitching prospect

ADA trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects

Adam Dunn trade - acquired 1 pitching prospect

Jake Peavy trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects, 1 SS (Rondon #12)

Jesse Crain trade - 1 pitching prospect, 1 3B prospect (Kline)

Matt Thorntom trade - 1 OF prospect (Jacobs)

Addison Reed trade - 1 3B prospect (Davidson #9)

Jason Frasor trade - 2 pitching prospects

Ozzie Guillen trade - 2 pitching prospects , 1 SS prospect (Martinez)

Carlos Quentin trade - 2 pitching prospects

Sergio Santos trade - 1 pitching prospect

Scott Linebrink trade - 1 pitching prospect

 

Thats 16 pitchers and 5 position players in trades in that time as well (not including ML ready players and spring training filler trades - true prospects)

 

In all the Sox have added 37 pitchers to only 14 position players in the last five years in the top of draft or in trades. Of the 14 hitting prospects acquired - Kline, Wilkins, Jacobs, and Martinez are out of the org 6 of the remaining 10 are in the top 30 prospects. Yes guys like Walker and Barnum have been busts but they have made up for it by drafting guys like Michalzeski, Semien, and Johnson in the later rounds.

Good info thanks

[Chisoxfn]

To be fair though, the organization has not made much of an attempt to develop many hitters in the darft since 2010 here are the positions drafted in the first 5 rounds:

 

2015 - 3 Pitchers

2014 - 4 Pitchers - 1 Catcher (Austin)

2013 - 3 Pitchers - 1 SS (Anderson #1), 1 OF (May #13)

2012 - 2 Pitchers - 1 OF (Hawkins #8), 1 1B (Barnum #27), 1 2B (DeMichele), 1 SS Nick Basto

2011 - 4 Pitchers - 1 OF (Walker)

2010 - 5 Pitchers - 1 1B (Wilkins)

 

So 21 pitchers and 9 position players drafted in that time span.

 

Of the trades that have been made, the prospects that they have acquired have been:

 

Samardzjia trade - 1 pitching prospect

Gordon Beckham trade - 1 pitching prospect

ADA trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects

Adam Dunn trade - acquired 1 pitching prospect

Jake Peavy trade - acquired 2 pitching prospects, 1 SS (Rondon #12)

Jesse Crain trade - 1 pitching prospect, 1 3B prospect (Kline)

Matt Thorntom trade - 1 OF prospect (Jacobs)

Addison Reed trade - 1 3B prospect (Davidson #9)

Jason Frasor trade - 2 pitching prospects

Ozzie Guillen trade - 2 pitching prospects , 1 SS prospect (Martinez)

Carlos Quentin trade - 2 pitching prospects

Sergio Santos trade - 1 pitching prospect

Scott Linebrink trade - 1 pitching prospect

 

Thats 16 pitchers and 5 position players in trades in that time as well (not including ML ready players and spring training filler trades - true prospects)

 

In all the Sox have added 37 pitchers to only 14 position players in the last five years in the top of draft or in trades. Of the 14 hitting prospects acquired - Kline, Wilkins, Jacobs, and Martinez are out of the org 6 of the remaining 10 are in the top 30 prospects. Yes guys like Walker and Barnum have been busts but they have made up for it by drafting guys like Michalzeski, Semien, and Johnson in the later rounds.

Jake Peavy trade was Rondon, 2 pitching prospects, and the centerpiece (Garcia). So technically 2 position prospects and 2 pitching prospects. Very good trade. We also have made plenty of 1st round position selections (or 2nd round) with Walker / Trayce Thompson / Mitchell / Beck's / Barnum / Hawkins / Tim Anderson.

[harfman77]

Jake Peavy trade was Rondon, 2 pitching prospects, and the centerpiece (Garcia). So technically 2 position prospects and 2 pitching prospects. Very good trade. We also have made plenty of 1st round position selections (or 2nd round) with Walker / Trayce Thompson / Mitchell / Beck's / Barnum / Hawkins / Tim Anderson.

Yes they are all listed above, though Thompson, Mitchell and Beckham were all before 2010. And as I said above, I did not include the ML ready players like Garcia or Eaton as they were not developmental prospects but were on the ML roster within a month of being acquired and had previous ML service time.