Carroll called up; Noesi DFA'd

[MEANS]

Carrol up, Noesi DFA'd

[Eminor3rd]

Carrol up, Noesi DFA'd

 

Welp, that should get the wins rolling in.

[Balta1701]

No complaints. He ready to go Saturday?

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Hopefully this is the first move of many to shake up this pathetic team.

[caulfield12]

Carrol up, Noesi DFA'd

 

 

Pitchfork crowd....not pacified in the least.

 

(Although we have proven one thing, that we can rehabilitate guys like Humber and Noesi, to a point...only to dump them for nothing in return but the loss of that valuable playing time and experience which SHOULD have gone to a long-term solution from the minors but couldn't since there was nobody ready in the minors.")

 

Shudders thinking of Carroll facing the Rangers the way they're going right now, which is probably why they want to protect Rodon after his last outing.

 

"Good luck Jamie, take one for the team, buddy!"

Edited June 18, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

You could see that happening for miles. Hector has some ability, but Coop couldn't fix him, and it appears he has no interest in relieving judging by how bad he is out of the bullpen.

[Dick Allen]

Pitchfork crowd....not pacified in the least.

 

(Although we have proven one thing, that we can rehabilitate guys like Humber and Noesi, to a point...only to dump them for nothing in return but the loss of that valuable playing time and experience which SHOULD have gone to a long-term solution from the minors but couldn't since there was nobody ready in the minors.")

?

 

Every team does the exact same thing.

[shysocks]

Yep, it's the lug nut. Fixed it.

[Dick Allen]

Yep, it's the lug nut. Fixed it.

If Saladino was doing anything, I would imagine he would get a call up and Sanchez sent down. But he's not. The problem is, the options on the farm are limited, and don't look so good.

[caulfield12]

?

 

Every team does the exact same thing.

 

 

Except for the last five years, we've been worse at doing it than all but one team in baseball.

 

So, if we did the exact same thing, our record, by definition, would be in the middle of the pack every year.

 

But taking more shots at Don Cooper will certainly improve things. You know, it's quite funny how much you dislike Don Cooper, he has been the most loyal employee Jerry Reinsdorf has ever had, along with Harrelson, Nancy Faust and Herm Schneider. Apparently, we should always be loyal and supportive of the coaching staff, everyone BUT Don Cooper, who for some inexplicable reason must have tripped your dog or passed by you when while you were collecting money for the Salvation Army at a storefront at Christmas and flicked his cigarette ashes in your bin.

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

Pitchfork crowd....not pacified in the least.

 

(Although we have proven one thing, that we can rehabilitate guys like Humber and Noesi, to a point...only to dump them for nothing in return but the loss of that valuable playing time and experience which SHOULD have gone to a long-term solution from the minors but couldn't since there was nobody ready in the minors.")

 

Shudders thinking of Carroll facing the Rangers the way they're going right now, which is probably why they want to protect Rodon after his last outing.

 

"Good luck Jamie, take one for the team, buddy!"

 

Where's that long-term solution?

[Chicago White Sox]

First step in the right direction. Carroll has had some success out of the pen, Noesi not so much. With Junior Guerra and the starting options in AAA, Noesi was more than expendable.

 

Next move is to send Sanchez down to AAA. I still like him as Bonifacio's replacement at some point this season, but he needs to get his confidence back with the bat before I use him in a backup role. Bringing up Micah seems like a no-brainer to me, although he clearly has his detractors here.

 

Last but not least, I'd really like to move on from Flowers. Obviously it's a much more difficult move to make given his familiarity with the pitching staff and the lack of standout replacements. Having said that, I see nothing to lose at this point and would happily role with a Soto/Kottaras tandem for a few months.

[Dick Allen]

Except for the last five years, we've been worse at doing it than all but one team in baseball.

 

So, if we did the exact same thing, our record, by definition, would be in the middle of the pack every year.

 

But taking more shots at Don Cooper will certainly improve things. You know, it's quite funny how much you dislike Don Cooper, he has been the most loyal employee Jerry Reinsdorf has ever had, along with Harrelson, Nancy Faust and Herm Schneider. Apparently, we should always be loyal and supportive of the coaching staff, everyone BUT Don Cooper, who for some inexplicable reason must have tripped your dog or passed by you when while you were collecting money for the Salvation Army at a storefront at Christmas and flicked his cigarette ashes in your bin.

I didn't take a shot at Cooper here. You did by saying the Sox are failing at reclamation projects worse than any other. It is amazing how many times you actually argue with yourself.

[caulfield12]

Where's that long-term solution?

 

 

At this point, Montas and Fulmer are the best options...but many, even a majority, believe Montas and Danish are destined for the bullpen.

 

Which puts all of the pressure on Carson Fulmer, and maybe, just maybe, Erik Johnson.

[GGajewski18]

This does nothing. Not even excited

[Chisoxfn]

I feel like anytime Hahn has spoken, changes were made. I can't imagine this is the last change. I presume we will move Sanchez but I still get really irritated at the impatience our front office has with young players. If we were to have Micah start the year, we should have known that he'd have defensive lapses, etc, and been ready to deal with it and work through his development. We weren't and got overly impatient then turned to the next savior (who was on fire for so long that no matter what he was due for a poor stretch and clearly he's struggled) but again, I feel like their is no vision in our moves and how we run things. Maybe I'm overthinking but this organization just keeps going downhill.

 

I got excited about Melky and that was my mistake but I also kept talking about how with someone like Avi and with our team D, we had to be aware of our defensive limitations and make sure whomever we brought in for the other OF spot had to be a good defender (unless of course we were going to have room at DH and that went out of the equation as soon as we signed LaRoche). When we signed Melky, we became stuck with two awful defensive outfielders to go along with an awful 2B (Micah is an awful defender at this point...not saying he will be forever, but his D was raw and bad and no one should be surprised with that or had expected anything else), an older Ramirez, and Connor who is a total butcher (and has been pretty much his entire career at 3B). I don't get as worked up over 1st, because its first, but we basically had one plus defender in Eaton (and you could have argued to start the season Ramirez being slightly above avg...but we've all talked about his age, etc, and potential declines their). That is freaking terrible. Oh and did I mention, a lot of those guys that were bad defenders, weren't well above average hitters either? Recipe for disaster. One thing if you are a bad defensive team with a good offense...another thing when you built your team around pitching and have a lousy offense to also have a lousy defense.

 

I realize hindsight is 20/20 but it is just alarming short-sited and poor. I should have stuck more to my guns in the off-season at how stupid this franchise was for continuing to ignore defense but I do admit, I got caught up in the hoopla with the Melkman thinking he'd hit well enough to off-set that defense. By the way, all this said, we still have the horses in the rotation and star power on our 25 man roster, which is why their is still hope, but it is going to be difficult without being able to acquire young position talent (along with moving some of our guys) both in terms of a Shark trade (hoping we can get other pitchers to develop...thus freeing up cash for position players) as well as trading from our sytsem (and hopefully getting a Tim Anderson / Micah to actually stick...although how the hell that will help team defense is obviously mind boggling at this point).

 

I'd probably say Avi is one of the guys you potentially use in a trade. Sucks cause he's young and cost controlled but with his limited defensive value and struggles to walk, etc, he's going to have a hard time being a very valuable player. Any offensive value is negated by horrific defense and well, we might actually be able to move Avi in a package with someone else for a team looking to buy (that has payroll constraints). Moving someone like Melky would be tougher and I still think Melky will be able to hit and get on base over the longer haul of this contract.

[elrockinMT]

Carrol up, Noesi DFA'd

 

 

I think this move is appropriate. Other than that typical first inning woe yesterday I think Danks helped his cause. With some offense we could have had a couple-three wins this past week

[caulfield12]

I didn't take a shot at Cooper here. You did by saying the Sox are failing at reclamation projects worse than any other. It is amazing how many times you actually argue with yourself.

 

 

No, I said failing to derive any long-term value from them.

 

That's different. For example, Nestor Molina, Matt Davidson and Zack Stewart. Not bringing back value in return...for example, if we had Josh Reddick instead, we wouldn't have had to sign Melky Cabrera, but that's just one example.

 

 

Don Cooper at least has Sergio Santos, Humber, Noesi, Putnam, Quintana, Hector Santiago, Petricka, Addison Reed (any time someone after the 2nd round makes a big impact that's a success), Nate Jones, Edwin Jackson...that he can claim as recent successes (to some point), not going all the way back to the 2000-2009 decade.

 

What do the White Sox have that's similar from a position player perspective, players that were acquired via waivers or for next to nothing and turned into assets? Alejandro DeAza? Conor Gillaspie?

 

I guess some out there might even want to blame Don Cooper for Paulino and Scott Downs...as for John Danks sucking post-injury, and for Jeff Samardzija this season, he's too old to play defense for the White Sox in 2015.

 

 

 

 

[Dunt]

Pitchfork crowd....not pacified in the least.

 

(Although we have proven one thing, that we can rehabilitate guys like Humber and Noesi, to a point...only to dump them for nothing in return but the loss of that valuable playing time and experience which SHOULD have gone to a long-term solution from the minors but couldn't since there was nobody ready in the minors.")

 

Shudders thinking of Carroll facing the Rangers the way they're going right now, which is probably why they want to protect Rodon after his last outing.

 

"Good luck Jamie, take one for the team, buddy!"

 

Jamie Carroll pitches now?

[caulfield12]

I feel like anytime Hahn has spoken, changes were made. I can't imagine this is the last change. I presume we will move Sanchez but I still get really irritated at the impatience our front office has with young players. If we were to have Micah start the year, we should have known that he'd have defensive lapses, etc, and been ready to deal with it and work through his development. We weren't and got overly impatient then turned to the next savior (who was on fire for so long that no matter what he was due for a poor stretch and clearly he's struggled) but again, I feel like their is no vision in our moves and how we run things. Maybe I'm overthinking but this organization just keeps going downhill.

 

I got excited about Melky and that was my mistake but I also kept talking about how with someone like Avi and with our team D, we had to be aware of our defensive limitations and make sure whomever we brought in for the other OF spot had to be a good defender (unless of course we were going to have room at DH and that went out of the equation as soon as we signed LaRoche). When we signed Melky, we became stuck with two awful defensive outfielders to go along with an awful 2B (Micah is an awful defender at this point...not saying he will be forever, but his D was raw and bad and no one should be surprised with that or had expected anything else), an older Ramirez, and Connor who is a total butcher (and has been pretty much his entire career at 3B). I don't get as worked up over 1st, because its first, but we basically had one plus defender in Eaton (and you could have argued to start the season Ramirez being slightly above avg...but we've all talked about his age, etc, and potential declines their). That is freaking terrible. Oh and did I mention, a lot of those guys that were bad defenders, weren't well above average hitters either? Recipe for disaster. One thing if you are a bad defensive team with a good offense...another thing when you built your team around pitching and have a lousy offense to also have a lousy defense.

 

I realize hindsight is 20/20 but it is just alarming short-sited and poor. I should have stuck more to my guns in the off-season at how stupid this franchise was for continuing to ignore defense but I do admit, I got caught up in the hoopla with the Melkman thinking he'd hit well enough to off-set that defense.

 

 

You're finally coming around.

 

The problem is getting one or both of Garcia away from the outfield and to 1B/DH, but you STILL have to keep one of them in LF/RF, even if you do end up trading LaRoche this mid-year or in the off-season (which is still looking quite unlikely because Hahn would be basically admitting defeat for next year as well).

 

Looking at internal solutions, the best defenders are probably Thompson, Sanchez and C. Rondon, and most scouts are dubious about their ability to hit consistently and get on base enough to justify their defense.

 

What sucks is all four AL Central teams...you can examine their major and minor league rosters, see their strategy/plan and understand that they have bright/er futures than the Sox, especially the Twins and probably the Royals as well.

 

In the process of focusing so much on beating the Tigers, they just got old...but we've gotten out-GM'ed by everyone in the division for the last five years.

 

 

We've seen Viciedo play better than expected in 2012, Eaton in 2014, Avi in 2015...but then it turned out to be unsustainable either offensively, defensively or both. How do you explain that? Ramirez, we can surmise he just got older (and is older than his birth certificate)...but even guys like Flowers, Gillaspie, LaRoche and Abreu are all worse defensively than last season...it's an endemic affecting every single player on the roster other than Beckham and Sanchez, and neither of them can hit.

 

Our two most promising hitting prospects, Anderson and Hawkins...neither one of those guys projects as being above-average (defensively) at the next level.

 

They've gotten wonderfully fortunate with Rodon and Fulmer falling into their laps, too. Some things have gone well. Perhaps the scariest thing to me is how HEALTHY we've been, all things considered, this season. We can look at the teams like the Rays, Rangers and Cardinals playing well despite replacing 2-4 starters at the major league level because of their strong systems and can't begin to imagine what our record (or future) would be if we had an injury to Sale, Quintana, Rodon or Fulmer...or Abreu, for that matter.

Edited June 18, 2015 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Jamie Carroll pitches now?

 

 

There was a rumor he/Noesi were going to take Rodon's next start (against the Rangers) and let him take a breather. Unconfirmed, but logical.

Edited June 18, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Gillaspie and Abreu are not "worse defensively" than they were last season. They're actually better than they were last year per UZR. Flowers is worse and LaRoche doesn't play 1b much.

 

Those guys have actually gotten a bit better defensively, but "a bit better than terrible" is still pretty weak.

[Balta1701]

There was a rumor he/Noesi were going to take Rodon's next start (against the Rangers) and let him take a breather. Unconfirmed, but logical.

You're missing what the question was.

[Chisoxfn]

You're finally coming around.

 

The problem is getting one or both of Garcia away from the outfield and to 1B/DH, but you STILL have to keep one of them in LF/RF, even if you do end up trading LaRoche this mid-year or in the off-season (which is still looking quite unlikely because Hahn would be basically admitting defeat for next year as well).

 

Looking at internal solutions, the best defenders are probably Thompson, Sanchez and C. Rondon, and most scouts are dubious about their ability to hit consistently and get on base enough to justify their defense.

 

What sucks is all four AL Central teams...you can examine their major and minor league rosters, see their strategy/plan and understand that they have bright/er futures than the Sox, especially the Twins and probably the Royals as well.

 

In the process of focusing so much on beating the Tigers, they just got old...but we've gotten out-GM'ed by everyone in the division for the last five years.

 

 

We've seen Viciedo play better than expected in 2012, Eaton in 2014, Avi in 2015...but then it turned out to be unsustainable either offensively, defensively or both. How do you explain that? Ramirez, we can surmise he just got older (and is older than his birth certificate)...but even guys like Flowers, Gillaspie, LaRoche and Abreu are all worse defensively than last season...it's an endemic affecting every single player on the roster other than Beckham and Sanchez, and neither of them can hit.

 

Our two most promising hitting prospects, Anderson and Hawkins...neither one of those guys projects as being above-average (defensively) at the next level.

 

They've gotten wonderfully fortunate with Rodon and Fulmer falling into their laps, too. Some things have gone well. Perhaps the scariest thing to me is how HEALTHY we've been, all things considered, this season. We can look at the teams like the Rays, Rangers and Cardinals playing well despite replacing 2-4 starters at the major league level because of their strong systems and can't begin to imagine what our record (or future) would be if we had an injury to Sale, Quintana, Rodon or Fulmer...or Abreu, for that matter.

Finally coming around? No one was more adamant then me all off-season. And I also completely disagree with you in the fact that all other teams have brighter futures then the White Sox. I think the Tigers future is horrific and I don't see the Royals continuing to trend upward. Twins and Indians have prospects but we have young stars to build around. I think the Sox made mistakes but they are still in a position where you can pivot and improve. Tough moves are going to have to be made and you will have to win some trades but somehow they are going to have to get some young, athletic, position talent capable of playing / ready to play at the major league level.

[Balta1701]

Finally coming around? No one was more adamant then me all off-season. And I also completely disagree with you in the fact that all other teams have brighter futures then the White Sox. I think the Tigers future is horrific and I don't see the Royals continuing to trend upward. Twins and Indians have prospects but we have young stars to build around. I think the Sox made mistakes but they are still in a position where you can pivot and improve. Tough moves are going to have to be made and you will have to win some trades but somehow they are going to have to get some young, athletic, position talent capable of playing / ready to play at the major league level.

I know, i know, derailment. I have to.

 

It's hard to trend upward that much when you have the 2nd best record in baseball.