"I firmly believe that there seems to be a little bit of a lack o

[Chisoxfn]

“That’s just bad,” Ventura said. “I’m tired of talking about it. They know it. We work it all of spring training — you’ve probably seen it a few hundred times that we work on it. I’m getting tired of talking about it because that’s just bad.”

 

“They need to catch it — that’s what they need to do,” Ventura said. Eaton ranks 25th out of 25 qualified center fielders with minus-9 Defensive Runs Saved while Ramirez is 25th of 27 shortstops, with minus-7.

 

“You guys ask the questions when it’s not going well,” Eaton said. “Like I said, it didn’t hurt. It was a tough play, but it was glaring because it’s, like I said, we’re not playing well. But if we would have won the game 5-2 it probably wouldn’t even have been a blip on your radar. Like I said, kind of a tough play but it’s probably somewhere where I need to take charge as a center field and call him off, but it’s a good thing it didn’t hurt us in the end.”

 

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/robin-...&ocid=yahoo

 

 

Not sure that's the best attitude to have about fixing mistakes...well, the run DIDN'T score so it's not a big deal...or, if we had won, it's STILL not a big deal. How does that solve the problem? Just the use of PROBABLY is annoying to read...you're either in charge of the outfield or you're not. "I have to take charge...(or)...Everyone knows I'm in charge of the outfield" not "probably somewhere where I need (not have to)..."

 

SIGH.

That quote is damning and complete crap. Thats it, someone needs to come in and clean house. What this team really needs is Showalter. That guy, more then any guy in baseball, is incredible at cleaning up fundamentals and changing the demeanor of a clubhouse. He also tends to wear out his welcome, but he's done a fantastic job in Bmore. But the quote from Eaton is reflective of the culture that must exist (whether Robin intended that or not)...the pride over miscues and the point that it shouldn't happen, just isn't being done. And while it is fully the players responsibility, the careless shows on the field consistently. It isn't just the front office putting poor defenders out their, it is also on players making poor and stupid plays more then most teams and its been a trend all but the first year Robin was here. Is firing Robin the solution, absolutely not, but I think he is part of the problem. Unfortunately the front office and a lot of our roster is also part of the problem.

[LDF]

There was a tiume recently that most everyone thought Adam Eaton was the greatest trade of all time ( forgive the slight exaggeration) and Ramirez is ap[lus defender and the Shaek would take us over the top and on and on. If we are done bashing everyone let's get back to playing baseball. This team can still compete

 

exactly, but with out the team performing, the team doesn't have the players to rearrange the starting lineup.

 

so the idea of who to bat #1, and #2 , if the other players are hitting just as bad or worst.

[flavum]

There was a time recently that most everyone thought Adam Eaton was the greatest trade of all time ( forgive the slight exaggeration) and Ramirez is a plus defender and the Shark would take us over the top and on and on. If we are done bashing everyone let's get back to playing baseball. This team can still compete

 

Wait, what?

 

87-75 might, might, win the second wildcard.

 

Can't hit, can't field, terrible management...this team will not be going 59-38.

 

They're probably going to trade a couple guys, and lose over 88 games. I'm expecting a top 6 pick next year, and it wouldn't shock me if the Sox pick 3rd.

[LDF]

Wait, what?

 

87-75 might, might, win the second wildcard.

 

Can't hit, can't field, terrible management...this team will not be going 59-38.

 

They're probably going to trade a couple guys, and lose over 88 games. I'm expecting a top 6 pick next year, and it wouldn't shock me if the Sox pick 3rd.

 

i will not talk about the trades idea. but i am in the belief this team can still hit. not all players can be this bad at one time, if it isn't something. but who knows.

 

this season, for me is a lost cause. just going thru the motions.

[PorkChopExpress]

This is what I think of when I see all of this crap about the Sox:

 

 

I'm not sure even Roy Hobbs could turn things around for these guys, though.

Edited June 19, 2015 by PorkChopExpress

[bmags]

Why do people like Dave Martinez so much? What has he ever done except stand next to Joe Maddon during games ? Seriously, this guy has been interviewed countless times and never landed a job. I remember when the pitchforks were out for Greg Walker, and the guy here who convinced a few posters that Walker had a "lift and pull" philosophy, wanted the Sox to hire Rudy Jaramillo's "assistant". If he knew what he was talking about, Rudy Jaramillo was the hitting coach with a "lift and pull" philosophy. Just because a guy coaches under Maddon, doesn't mean he's just like Maddon. And really, the Rays sucked last year and finished under .500. Maddon flees, they are devastated by injury, and are in first place. Maybe his genius is overstated.

 

"Blah, you can't care about this issue because some other people cared about another issue at one point and there are different people in this world who do things so we may as well just not do anything ever because choices may lead to different results!"

[elrockinMT]

exactly, but with out the team performing, the team doesn't have the players to rearrange the starting lineup.

 

so the idea of who to bat #1, and #2 , if the other players are hitting just as bad or worst.

 

 

The point I am making is that they are not as bad as they are playing. The players on this team have proven track records of success. Now we have some who don't. SWe took achanmce on Noesi, who was a serviceable #5 starter last year. He wasn't even a decent long relief option this year. He is now gone. Danks may still be ok at #5 now, but Rodon is still learning at the big league level and has been inconsistent. We need a better catching corp even though pitchers seem to like to throw to Tyler. I don't know much about Soto. But, they both stink in throwing out runners. How much blame is that on the pitchers inability to hold runners? I don't know but that has been discussed previously. A better option at 3B may be needed but Gillaspie hovered around .300 last year with the bat. Defensively he is only average at best. Our attempts to fill the 2B spot with our vaunted rookies has not been sterling. I believe they have talent but are really lacking at the plate. Relief pitching has been somewhat mediocre and I think that was supposed to be a strength this year. A fire sale as folks have been calling for is not a viable option as we will struggle for a long time while replacements mature in their roles. I think in this day and age, especially with the wild card option putting so many teams in the hunt, you will sell low in a fire sale, if you just want to dump players and salary. Yes, all teams need some tweaking one in awhile and we may too, but let's be realistic in what we can and should do. All we have to do is make it to the playoffs as a wild card and that is doable. Robin Ventura is a knowledgeable baseball man. I remember the day when we had a winning manager with fire - Ozzie Guillen - and I think we can agree the styles of leadership shown by Ozzie and Robin are complete opposites. But, folks wanted him gone too. How did that work out?

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/06/...KhLJ/story.html

Thank you for posting this. I've kept up with non-White Sox MLB less than usual this season, so it warms the cockles of my heart to know that Boston has a five-alarm dumpster fire of their own. In what universe is it a good idea to bring over a clown like Sandoval for 5 yr/$20M per to a roster that already has the crown prince of all clowns ever, Ortiz?

[LDF]

The point I am making is that they are not as bad as they are playing. The players on this team have proven track records of success.

 

you make a good counter.

 

this is a perfect example of the domino effect happening on the worst side.

 

a long list of bad luck that just got worst.

 

first Sale getting hurt, the sp not getting fixed.

 

eaton not hitting and melky not performing.

 

from that point, everything get magnified, and then nothing could stop the falling.

 

pretty much like the hobbs movie..... perfect example.

[LDF]

Thank you for posting this. I've kept up with non-White Sox MLB less than usual this season, so it warms the cockles of my heart to know that Boston has a five-alarm dumpster fire of their own. In what universe is it a good idea to bring over a clown like Sandoval for 5 yr/$20M per to a roster that already has the crown prince of all clowns ever, Ortiz?

 

oh i love it. and the sox were how close to signing him??

[jasonxctf]

While I believe that both Robin and Severson need to go, a good question is raised here.

 

Who is the leader in clubhouse? For years, its been Konerko. I'm sure he was a great role model for the guys, probably easy going sometimes and harsh in others.

 

So who is it...

 

Abreu- Guy was a rookie last year. Hard to be a captain after 1 year in the big leagues. Still learning English too.

Sale- Is he "mature" enough to take this role. Can a pitcher have a role like this w/hitters?

Ramirez- Is the language barrier an issue? Does he care enough to accept it?

Eaton- Amongst many others, a recent Sox acquisition. Not a veteran big league guy.

Beckham- Can you have a part-time player as a captain/leader?

 

There's just an overall lack of leadership. The manager doesnt seem to display it, and the players dont want (or cant) take it on.

[Balta1701]

Fire Stevenson, DFA Flowers, move Danks to the bullpen and call up the Johnsons and Kottaras. It's time to start seeing who can play in 2016 and make a point to relegate long-term mediocrity.

Beck is on the DL right now so no moving Danks out of the rotation any time soon.

[SCCWS]

Fire Stevenson, DFA Flowers, move Danks to the bullpen and call up the Johnsons and Kottaras. It's time to start seeing who can play in 2016 and make a point to relegate long-term mediocrity.

 

Flowers may be the leader in the clubhouse.........................................

 

I posted previously that I have doubts about Dave Martinez. He was passed over by Tampa when Maddon left. That would be a concern to mebases on his time there and the success Maddon had. Obviously TB seems to have made a great choice in Cash.

 

[kitekrazy]

I reading an article on hitting coaches and the conclusion is most players don't listen. That's why George Brett quit. On some organizations when players don't listen they can be replaced.

I would think handling veteran players would be the biggest challenge. They may have developed habits they've gotten away with and trying to change that must be hard for the coach and the player.

[Dick Allen]

I reading an article on hitting coaches and the conclusion is most players don't listen. That's why George Brett quit. On some organizations when players don't listen they can be replaced.

I would think handling veteran players would be the biggest challenge. They may have developed habits they've gotten away with and trying to change that must be hard for the coach and the player.

That story about George Brett was interesting. Mike Schmidt wrote it after talking to George. Apparently the hitters didn't want to work with him because he had suggestions, but they had no problem with the assistant because he would tell them what they wanted to hear. So George quit.

[kitekrazy]

That story about George Brett was interesting. Mike Schmidt wrote it after talking to George. Apparently the hitters didn't want to work with him because he had suggestions, but they had no problem with the assistant because he would tell them what they wanted to hear. So George quit.

 

I remember when Chet Lemon was slumping so bad no one could help him. Ted Williams was visiting Comiskey Park and Chet Lemon was asking for advice.

 

I think for coaching to work at the big league level the philosophy has to be consistent through the organization. It seems poor base running, lack of fundamentals is consistent in the organization.

[LDF]

i really wonder if the owners really sees this team. if they do, aren't they pissed about it??

 

or are they that blind and think that they are doing a great job and the fans do not support them and that is why the team is doing how it is???

[Kyyle23]

i really wonder if the owners really sees this team. if they do, aren't they pissed about it??

 

or are they that blind and think that they are doing a great job and the fans do not support them and that is why the team is doing how it is???

 

you really think that anyone in this organization thinks this? They are businessmen, they want to win because winning brings in more money. I dont think anyone is happy, from both a competitive and financial point of view

[LDF]

you really think that anyone in this organization thinks this? They are businessmen, they want to win because winning brings in more money. I dont think anyone is happy, from both a competitive and financial point of view

 

by default in the big picture, i will agree with you.

 

but i am judging this by the actions of the owners. if they are great, big businessmen, then they would have address the FO managerial works a long time ago.

 

there is little of conflict in reasoning here.

[elrockinMT]

I reading an article on hitting coaches and the conclusion is most players don't listen. That's why George Brett quit. On some organizations when players don't listen they can be replaced.

I would think handling veteran players would be the biggest challenge. They may have developed habits they've gotten away with and trying to change that must be hard for the coach and the player.

 

 

Frank Thomas listened to Walt Hriniak and worshipped him as a hitting coach. There was a time when our coaching staff was top notch. Bring back Walt and let the Big Hurt coach too

[elrockinMT]

On Walt Hriniak from Baseball Wikipedia: (Walt is now 72)

 

Hriniak's batting theories had many adherents among Red Sox players, but he also had detractors. Ted Williams, the Hall of Fame hitter and all-time Boston great, was outspoken in his criticism of Hriniak's methods. Williams and his followers felt that Hriniak robbed his hitters of extra-base power by teaching them to hit the ball up the middle, "swing down on the ball," or to take the upper hand off the bat at the end of their swing — which may have been oversimplifications of Hriniak's philosophies.

 

"I don't have a problem with Ted Williams," Hriniak told Yankee Magazine in 1986. "He teaches his way, and I teach mine. I don't teach a level swing, a downward swing, or an uppercut swing. Hitters are all different, so I teach all three ... You don't have to hit my way, you don't have to hit his way. Just make up your minds. Don't keep changing lanes. You can't hit when you're confused."[1]

 

White Sox coach[edit]

Finally, after 12 years with Boston, four as the team's official batting coach, Hriniak moved to the Chicago White Sox in 1989 as one of the highest-paid coaches in baseball. (Lau was the White Sox' batting coach in 1984 when he succumbed to colorectal cancer at age 50. Hriniak wore Lau's old No. 6 uniform in tribute during his Chicago tenure.)

 

Hriniak coached another seven years, through 1995, before opening his own hitting school and becoming a private batting instructor. Former White Sox slugger Frank Thomas was one of his most loyal adherents.

[caulfield12]

http://cjonline.com/sports/2015-05-18/mike...s-beating-shift

 

The George Brett situation also resulted because everyone knew when he came in that he was only going to be "hands on" for 4-8 weeks and then he was going to fade back from that day-to-day commitment.

 

Royals' hitters started to believe in the results when the wins and stats started to come with all the hard work they were putting in...no matter how good the coaching or teaching, it's very hard to overcome the hestitation players feel when their organization hasn't been a championship contender for thirty years.

 

Sveum has gotten guys like Moustakas, Cain and Hosmer to listen...and they've all improved as a result compared to where they were 2-3 years ago as players.

 

Why we failed to help similar guys like Quentin, Beckham or Viciedo nobody knows for sure. Maybe they were lacking in talent...willingness to change...or changed too much and overthought things and lost confidence. Hard to say. Everyone at one point believed in their talent level, though. Maybe all of the defensive position changes bothered them. Injuries/health got to Carlos. Say what you like about Semien defensively, this season he hit for a stretch in a pitcher-friendly stadium at a much higher level than with the White Sox. Same with Phegley, as well.

Edited June 19, 2015 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

Lots of words bandied about like "focus" and "complacency."

 

Gardenhire's name is proffered as a possible solution in terms of cleaning things up on the field of play.

 

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...reak-hits-seven

Yep, same ole Sox. Worrying about the clubhouse instead of getting good players in here.

Gardenhire would be more of the same.

Old techniques. No analysis, no metrics.